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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone. Just popping in for a sec between busy holiday preparations and handling end of the year loose ends before a 2 week holiday from work!!! YEAH!!

LostH - That job wasn't for you! The right one is waiting for you. Don't beat yourself up for it. Sometimes I think we have a deeply intuitive part of ourselves that knows to screw things up so we don't wind up there. You'll find the right thing. Keep visualizing the perfect scenario and it will come.

unAble - Hmmmmmm, if you're 90% sure then maybe it's best just to keep eyes and ears open and not start a ruckus. But if it's going to naw at you then perhaps it's a good idea to get it out on the table. These things have a way of festering and let's face it, we've all festered just about enough!!! So don't let it eat at you and if it is, talk to him.

Well... how do I answer Unable? He doesn't really want to talk about anything A-related. He tries to be supportive but I don't think he gets it yet! Or he would take the few minutes to call me at the end of the day.
LostS, are you telling your H exactly what you need from him? Or are you waiting for him to get it. He may never get it. One of the things that came out in our MC was that my H wanted me to be VERY specific about what I wanted and needed and he felt like a failure always whenever he had to guess at it. I, on the other hand, felt if I had to tell him it didn't count. Wrong assumptions on both our parts. Now that we're well into our R I don't have to be so specific. He has more confidence about doing the right things. Waiting for them to get it is a set up for failure IMO now when I look back at my own sitch.

((((((((To All my LTA tribe)))))))))


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And lostsuol Ė knowing my luck Iíd end up with The Butterfly Effect!

UKgirl... I know! That would be just my luck too. I chose our 25th anniversary year (1998) because I know we were happy then. Our 2 sons and daughter were young adults, doing well in their studies and my mom was still alive. All good memories...

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostS, are you telling your H exactly what you need from him? Or are you waiting for him to get it.
OTC... My H knows that I want him to call at the end of the day when he is out of town. He knows and says that he will in earlier conversation during the day. The phone is on the night table - he knows he can call whatever time it is. If our marriage is a priority... what does it say when he can't take a few minutes to call before he goes to sleep when he knows that I am here waiting? How does an intelligent man get so dense? I've told him repeatedly that if he says he is going to do something then I expect him to do that thing... whatever it may be.
I, on the other hand, felt if I had to tell him it didn't count.
Exactly! I don't see why I need to keep spelling things out to him! I've told him until I'm 'blue in the face' as the saying goes. It seems that once he's not with me, I am no longer his priority. That's what I have trouble dealing with... words to me and his actions not matching. OK - he's been married to his job a year longer than he's been married to me. I've been to conventions with him and know about the PR side of the job and how he enjoys that part of it (of course, it's more enjoyable than the drudgery of his daily work life) BUT too tired to call me. This I can't comprehend!!!
He has told me he's sorry but is that just words too. I wish we were in MC.

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why aren't you in MC LostS? I have to tell you that IMO your H not doing what he says he's going to do while knowing how important it is to you and how it affects you is a passive aggressive move. Either he's committed to the M and to you healing in the aftermath of his LTA or he isn't. Lipservice and half way there doesn't cut it. There are no excuses. LTA recovery is brutal and without the commitment from your H, impossible IMO. My H is currently working 15 to 16 hour days for the past 2 mos and he's called me three times today and has called at least once or twice at the least every day, usually more than three times. He is in an incredibly stressful environment but still makes us a priority knowing how important it's been to me in the past that he calls. I'm not comparing my H to yours, but I am using this as an example. Leaving room for unaccounted time by excuses just continues the A'ing behavior IMO. Not that he's doing it, but may be feeling like he wants to keep that wiggle room as a power play. So much of this can be sorted out with a good MC. He'll get called on his shit and so will you. You'll both come to understand the "dance" you do together. For my H and I, our dance was a power struggle. Me with controlling behavior, him with passive aggressive behavior. Understanding this was the single most important thing in our R.
Hope this helps LostS.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why arenít you in MC, lostsuol? There should always be time for ďgoodnight, I love youĒ. Itís time he knew what is really important in life, IMO. Not the job; you.
But I know what you mean. My FWH used to call me at 6.30pm, knowing I was getting dinner for me and the boys and didnít really have time to talk. Then maybe heíd ring about 9.30 or 10 (that after-dinner-but-before-going-to-the-room scenario), just to check in. I have accepted that I just accept; and have done for eight months now, that he just says what he says; I neither believe nor disbelieve him. However, as a close friend of mine said, if he says itís raining, youíll look out the window to check. All those times he would text her at 4am, or 5 or 6. I want to know why she was so important to him, yet he still came home to this house, me and the boys. I guess I was just wallpaper, a housekeeper and cook and a convenient f*ck while he was here. His head was somewhere else. I used to say that his priorities were in reverse order: himself, work, friends, family, then way down the list, me. Now, of course, I know why. And I feel so stupid.

Edit: Oops! Beat me to it, I came in after you OTC! Looks like we're in the same vein, though.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:51 PM, December 19th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Either he's committed to the M and to you healing in the aftermath of his LTA or he isn't. Lipservice and half way there doesn't cut it.

LostS - newbie jumping in here but I have to agree completely with OTC on this one. A five second call to say I am exhausted but I am thinking of you is not too much to ask. If he is stuck overseas at a dinner a text message or email that I am thinking of you would do wonders. Do you think he would be willing to communicate in TM or email?

There was a quote posted elsewhere on the site that I sent to my H. I am sure I am butchering it here but I will try:

Thoughts become words
Words become actions
Action become character
Character becomes Destiny

When I first read this I thought about my H. Now I think about myself and how my words and actions can determine my character and my fate (except for when "The Fates" might get involved).

My greatest source of strength has been this place where the people who have been down this path have helped me. What have they said? : look out for yourself, look for *real* effort and changes in you WS, be true to yourself, keep your kids/significant people in your life whole and sane, fake it until you make it, cry in the shower, buy some really hot jeans (BTW - Lucky Brand rocks), pamper yourself, dust bunnies are cute if your dog tries to eat them, don't forget to feed the dog occassionally, children above the age of 12 can do their own laundry, etc.

Unable - when you saw him shut down the browser, are you sure he wasn't doing something for you? He might have been trying to order something for Xmas etc. Do you think it makes sense to see if something on that front materializes?

Weepy, I literally cried when I read your post about your H not responding. This is NOT about you. I don't want to hear about age or body shape, as you are such a good person and this is the person he knew. I wish I could do something other than give you hugs.

Joe - hi...again, new here and have never crossed with you. I read with trepidation our trigger at the wedding especially as you were with a wonderful new SO. Then I read your further posts about how hard it was to let it go with you WW. I do believe that you are struggling as it sounds as if you never got the information/truth that you needed to come to terms with what happened. I am still trying to confront my own truth and it is impossilbe to process. I give you credit for moving forward without the truth you needed.

Lost Heart - I agree with OTC. If it didn't go well it would have been the wrong place for you anyway - no point in being in a job you would hate. As far as powerpoint - if you have someone in your house over the age of 12 they, most likely, can give you a complete tutorial in 30 minutes (and program the dvd).

Hugs to all...trying to stay sane, buy and wrap presents, decorate the house, make cookies, get presents for teachers, go to holiday parties, and look *normal* while doing it.

P.S. Think I have recently learned what the "plain of lethal flatness is "

ed: b/c Think is spelled with a "k" have fun w/the rest of the typos

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 7:56 PM, December 19th (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why aren't you in MC LostS?
OTC and UKG... I appreciate your responses. OTC, you wrote what I am thinking about LTA recovery.
On Dday he said he would do whatever it took to heal. But my feeling is: If he won't talk to me now, doesn't know where to start... so says nothing... Then why pay money we can't afford to have him not talk? I am still waiting for him to write me a letter about it since he said he thought that would be easier.

He calls me several times a day when he is in town at his place of business. He called me twice during the day the last 2 days. It's at night when I'm home alone that I need to hear his voice. The result of his not calling is nightmares, not just bad dreams but nightmares where I call out but have no voice, have really strange interaction with people and other disturbing happenings. I wake up and they continue when I fall asleep again.

Passive-Agressive behaviour and conflict avoidance are part of his makeup. I don't know where the not calling fits in. I just know that it affects me profoundly and I'm not healing emotionally as well as exacerbating my physical health problem.

Again... thanks for your support. I may print your reponses and show him as I think he might benefit from your opinions.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostS, pardon me for saying this but I think your reasoning about not wasting money in MC if he won't talk is off course. Just about all of our H's were silent with us and avoidant. My H still is uncomfortable with it and has since shared with me how difficult it was in the beginning. And I will term the beginning as at the beginning of MC. MC gives you the platform and the forum for dialog that is productive. He is most likely afraid to enter into dialog that will make things worse or cause you to leave him. And so he avoids. My H wanted to work things out and get it on the table but he was terrified by too much info. He did answer anything I asked but it was as brief and non-descript as possible. And he has never laid out the whole story in one long conversation. It's come in pieces over time. Through that time, in MC, much more came out. And we also set ground rules in there to have dialog outside of MC which became productive as well and laid the foundation for the open conversations we have now. Things like calling you when he's out of town and him understanding the depth of the impact it has on you when he doesn't are the type of things that can be negotiated in MC with a third party who knows how to navigate those conversations. I strongly encourage you to change your thinking about spending the money and get a MC asap. I think you'll find those at SI who are in successful R have had lots of hours in MC and IC.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
zanny
♀ Member
Member # 13183
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just wanted to say "hi" to all of you and to wish you a wonderful Christmas. I joined here at the beginning of this year, and I can't begin to imagine how I would have coped without all of your support. You have been angels in the rafters. It has been a year of incredible change for me. It was change that was forced upon me unwillingly, but I can see that its roots will always be in pain, it has some silver linings too.

I want to speak to each of you. As I read each post, I bob my head up and down. It is so great to see some names from earlier this year...Joe & Unable come to mind.

Joe, it sounds like you want to protect your ex-wife from herself. You have that protective instinct...I think it's time for you to channel that into fatherhood You'll work on that won't you? I would love to hear a Joe Pike fall in love & have little kidlet stories, that would make my day (s)!

Unable..it's been a rough go around for you this year. I can see your trigger with the computer. I have NO advice to offer because I still haven't figured out how to control my triggers. When I do, they just grow larger. I tend to just bleat out and sob. Like UK said, her husband hovers for the next meltdown...that really sounded like us for a long time.

Shirley, you gleaned the best advice...great jeans, showers to cry in, fake it til you make it....all of it, covers the essentials of what got me through.

Lost Suol...everyone said it, I just concur.

Hugs to all of you....I want to say all of your names, but I am afraid I will leave someone out and I wouldn't mean to do that...I just have a very stinky memory for names!!


BS-Me
WS-Him
D-day #1 LTA
False Reconciliation then
D-day #2
In reconciliation


"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."


Posts: 573 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: The Middle of Somewhere
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:44 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostS, the question is, can you afford to NOT do MC? I felt my world had collapsed and that life had no meaning until that first session. I just sat and cried and WH had to explain why we were there. I couldnít speak. The best thing about MC is that it takes it out of the home and into a safe environment. You can say whatever you damn well please, and so can he. There is an experienced person to keep you on track and to not take sides. And they have plenty of tissues. Someone who will ask pertinent questions and turn questions or statements around back to you or your WH. When the hourly session is finished, you can dwell on whatís taken place and either talk about it or not. It doesnít matter whether or not he opens up, he will at least be forced to look at himself and examine what he has done, why, and what itís done to you, him and your marriage. You will move forward in a more positive way because the counselling takes you one step at a time and you realise there are no shortcuts. Shortcuts mean burying, ignoring or thinking something doesnít matter when it does.

Ask around, find the right one. Oddly enough, I knew when I spoke to my MC on the phone that she was the earthy, sympathetic type that I needed. We still go fortnightly, sometimes together, sometimes (rarely) him and sometimes just me.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
JoePike
♂ Member
Member # 13207
Default  Posted: 5:26 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Zanny: Actually, my xW and I tried for a year to start a family before d-day put a stop to that, but I'm sure a part of her body was uncooperative, as one of her reasons to get pregnant was so she could "get the ammunition she needed to finish it off with him"...

I can't wait for kids, I love them, and I know I will have them. I think the xW might not - her age and mental state might mean by the time she comes out of it, she'll be too old. I guess the price she had to pay for a few weeks of meaningless sex per year. But you're right. It's a bit like Britney Spears - you're watching a trainwreck, and this by someone I loved very deeply, but I'm powerless to do anything. She hasn't changed more than 16 months post d-day. It's so sad to watch.

I know I will become a father, hopefully sooner rather than later. My new SO is lovely, so that is a very real possibility.

Runoverbytruck: She hasn't posted for quite a while. I guess some people here started to see through her facade and the polished image she had created. Like IRL, on SI she would twist things to make her seem "less bad", and finally the illusion cracked I guess. It's a shame, when she needs the help from SI more than ever, she's running away from everything again.


"Do or do not. There is no Try" - Yoda.

"The term ďmistakeĒ infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper


Posts: 3952 | Registered: Jan 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi folks, popping in for a quick note before starting the marathon today. I am Superwoman, don't you know?

Can't take all the negativity any more. He told me he hates Christmas, can't wait for it to be over and I started to cry. I loved this time of year, used to anyway. Now that I know it was shared for so many years, I'm having a tough time getting motivated to do anything, so I'm trying, pushing and failing.


Where would you go..past or future

I'm torn between two events in the past. The first one was where I found the phone bills from Texas, the ones he paid for a "neighbor who was down on her luck." She was his affair while we were engaged. After 5 years together he still hadn't known how to be loyal or faithful. I found them after we were married though and wrote them off as not important because he HAD chosen me after all.

The second was the first Dday, which I didn't even recognize because he gaslighted me so well. My first instinct was to walk and I should have done it. I should have insisted on the MC then -- he actually suggested it that day, but then told me it would be a waste of time since it was only ME that was the problem. I didn't know about IC then. Would have saved me so many years of pain. I could have cut him off at the prostitutes, he hadn't met his LTA yet.

But R requires us to put the past in the past unless those behaviors resurface. Don't know if I can do that since his "attitude" hasn't changed much. He's just more dutiful now.

I bought myself a Christmas present from "santa" yesterday. I secumbed to the mall guys hawking that nail system. Don't care. Know I was ripped off. I just have no defenses....

I wish all of you, a warm and joyful or at least peaceful holiday. I'm sure I'll be back over the weekend, but the next two days are going to be hell. Nice, huh, think of Christmas time as hell... never did before.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostsoul:

The greatest gift of MC for us was that it gave my husband a voice and taught him the value of using it.

Please, find yourself a good counselor and go. Ours was an Imago counselor. Imago uses a very specfic type of conversation which was good for my husband. It was a fill in the blanks type of scenario in the beginning, which helped him immensely. Most of the words were already there, he just had to fill in some of the crucial ones. Sounds pitiful, I know, but it worked wonders for him.

LostHeart,

That interview sounds oppressive, the upcoming one. I agree with the others that it may not be the job for you and the universe is most likely guiding you to a better place than that.


Weepy,

Don't let him ruin Christmas for you. If it's not his thing, that's OK. Let him stay at home for the parties or decide himself how much he wants to participate.

But you do the things that you want to do.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey, BT. I understand that, it's just that I'm trying to do the "include" him thing, you know. His main complaint was that I took over everything and nothing he did was good enough... but it's killing me. Now my son won't have what he really wants for Christmas because H is such a damn procrastinator and a cheap SOB. Nothing is his "thing" if it involves giving of yourself. Everything is such a f'ng effort.

It doesnít matter whether or not he opens up, he will at least be forced to look at himself and examine what he has done, why, and what itís done to you, him and your marriage.

I agree that's the idea behind the MC, but if your H is truly conflict avoidant and emotionally void, he'll be able to forget about it as soon as you leave the office. It just doesn't stick alot of the time.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my effort to make someone smile...

A study in the Washington Post says that women have better verbal skills than men. I just want to say to the authors of that study: "Duh."
--Conan O'Brien


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and OTC, this one is for you!

"I think that's how Chicago got started. Bunch of
people in New York said, 'Gee, I'm enjoying the crime
and the poverty, but it just isn't cold enough.
Let's go west.'"
--Richard Jeni


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good one Shirley!!! And wouldn't you know Richard Jeni was one of my favorite comedians. I've saw him live three times!

OK, need some chants from the tribe today. I go at 3 pm Chicago time for my follow up biopsy for the cervical dysplasia. As most of you will remember I had surgery back in May for cervical dysplasia from the HPV virus given to me from the whore-bitch-slut-SOW (aka The Diseased Hole) and my H. In my 3 mo. follow up PAP it came back as abnormal, still showing abnormal cells and the HPV virus still active. So doc wanted to wait a few more mos. to see if it continues to spread before doing a biopsy. Could use some tribal chanting for an outcome that shows there's been no more progression and the virus has gone. Would appreciate it gang! This is the last piece that keeps this whole nightmare alive and well in my head and in my M. I feel like there's a piece of that fucking skank in me and my M still with this. I WANT IT GONE!!!!


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


OTC - I will start chanting now and chant the rest of the day - good luck ((((((OTC))))))))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTC, Sending prayers and good thoughts and opening the chant now.


Weepy, you know that crap from was blameshifting justification from your H. Why would you want to live your life based on the drivel that he spewed at his stupidest? He had his affair and went with all the pros because he is one messed up guy, not because you enjoyed things that he did not or tried to make up for his flaws.

Have faith in your own values and in your own judgment. Do what you think is right. Note, I am not saying what you feel is right, but what you think is right. Use your head and all that hard-earned knowledge from reading and IC and MC and do what you believe is right.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, December 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{OTC}}} ... prayers and good thoughts for the follow-up Dr. apptmt. What time zone is Chicago?
It doesnít matter whether or not he opens up, he will at least be forced to look at himself and examine what he has done, why, and what itís done to you, him and your marriage. You will move forward in a more positive way

This is what I want. Thanks so much for the MC info some of you have shared. I will try to find one for the new year although scheduling could be difficult as this is H's busy time. I don't know about emotionally void but he's definitely conflict avoidant.
H will be home shortly. Gotta shower. Later, LTA gang!

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
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