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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 5:03 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uk, I am so relieved that you are ok.Angry but ok.

Yes, it was a violation as you had asked him to leave this place alone.

However, do you think that this could work out for you too? How about suggesting he read in the Wayward forum, or even post there?
Maybe he is looking for answers/direction/support too?

My H reads here because he wants to know whats going on with me. Sometimes its a blessing, other times not.

So what did you and H decide?
If he wants to read here,he should be ready to accept the cnsequences of that which are that he will NOT always like what he sees;that sometimes you just need to vent and are ok after; but also sometimes he might get a better understanding of what you are going through, by reading not only yours but others posts as well.

Still I know how violated you feel.Sorry.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 5:18 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well good morning Lost and UK.

thank you FSA for being one of the few bright lights and bringing a smile to my face with your jingles.
No, Hurtshirley, thank you. I needed that. I've been throwing a big ole pity party for FSA since yesterday evening. OH Boo Hoo Hoo for FSA.

I just wish he’d found a smidgen of courage and p*ssed off when he’d rediscovered her, then I wouldn’t be dealing with his sh*t now.
UK I can so relate to that. My H's A had ended b/c of our moving and then snaggletooth moving. But later on he changed jobs, only to move to her new area and bam they were right back at it again. If only he could have stayed away from her then, we would not be going through all of this shit now.

As for a jingle. I've got to try and come down off my pity party first. But No Mor, great job!!!! Loved it!!!!

Need to go and put on my face for work. Maybe I can try and think of something then. Let's see H's who make you go grrrrr.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 5:28 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey FSA!
Having a pity party now and then is ok.Sometimes we just need to go down in the dumps, then start climbing back out again.

Hope the day gets better. Thinking of lyrics should be a good way of keeping you distracted.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 5:34 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I once met a man
Thought he knew who I am
So we said our I do's
To begin life anew

I cleaned his house
Didn't even leave a smidgen for a mouse
I raised his kids well
Yours, mine and ours, what the hell

Then one day I found out
He was being a louse
Now my world is upside down
I can't even smile for a clown

We keep trying each day
Not to throw it away
But boy oh boy
Sometimes I need a decoy

'Cause that man of mine
Sure can make me go grrrrrrrrrr

Now I've got to get ready for work.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, thanks. I've amended the last paragraph to read:
"If you were not already aware of this affair, I realise that this knowledge will come as a shock and I am truly sorry for any grief and heartache that this may cause you. This is not a letter based on revenge or spite, but a need to bring in the last member of this quartet. I have a sense of empathy for you as the other aggrieved party. If you have any questions for me, my mobile is below."
I felt I had to say I was sorry, so left that in.
Gonna be a tough day, haven't even done my xmas cards. Can't be bothered. Check in later.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's a really good letter, UK. Calm, factual, well-explained, without malice or anything incendiary.

You're doing him a great kindness, and I think he will realize that. If not right away, then in the long run.

Will your H alert the OW?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK, I'm sorry your H betrayed you again. I'm sure had he approached you with coming toi SI, you would have gladly "shown" him around. Just more poor choices, huh? <<sigh>> I hope it doesn't make you censor your thoughts.

(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))

I am trying to understand this myself, I cant make him understand.

Nope, you can't Lost. This is big. And you've just GOT to deal with your part or you will be here again--facing whatever "lesson" it is you are supposed to take away from this. The best thing you can do is concentrate on getting Lost well--FINALLY. That's really your only hope for surviving.

Other times I think he is as lost as I am, and I need to help him.

Obviously, he's got issues or you wouldn't be in this situation. But you can't "fix" him, and he won't change unless and until he wants to change. And from what you are saying...he doesn't feel he needs to. He thinks it all you and your issues. That's obviously crap...but you can't do anything about that. What you can do--what you must do--is work on yourself. If you don't heal the Lost within, you will never be free. He can come along for the ride, or get left behind. You don't have control of that, sweetie. You must face that fear head on. You must get yourself to a place where you WANT to be well and it will become more important than anything else--including whether or not he buys into it.

H read what I had written here, and he is not doing too well. He feels that I only give one point of view about our M to you guys and IC, and its not fair.He has taken offence as being cast as an abuser.He wanted to know this morning why I would say this, what has he done,theres 2 sides to every story, that I cast things that he has done or said in a bad light which are not necessarily true, and I dont give the right context for his actions.

Well, that just isn't true. You've been honest with us about your shortcomings. You have been open about your "abuse" of him as well. Again, you can't make him see or do anything differently. You only have control of you.

I am still finding my feet in this, I dont want to discuss this with him now..so I offered to bring him to IC session so he can hear IC POV. He refused.

Why am I not surprised?

Lost...hon, I can say this over and over...but just as with your H, unless and until you are ready to "hear" it, you won't. You can't change him. You can't control him or his thoughts. Control is an illusion. The more control you try to have, the more out of control you really are. You have control of you and your thoughts. You have control of your ability to get well. You have control of your ability to change YOUR behaviors. Set yourself free. Once you get over the need to "fix" or "change" or "control", you won't believe how you carried it around with you for so long. You will be surprised at how much of a burden is lifted off of you.

Just work on you. You are your most cherished item. If you can't do it for you, do it so your kids will have a whole mum (hee-hee, I used an "English" word). Don't pass on your unhealthy legacy. Make the change so that they will have a chance at living differently.

I know it's hard. Face your fears. We are here to face them with you.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgot to mention--

SO PROUD OF WEEPY!!! She's doing it!!!


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

I ditto run 100 percent.

You really have to do your best to let him walk his road by himself. You can share with him your perspective if he asks for it, but he has his own journey to make and it needs to be his own.

Focus on you. If he wants to come here and post on wayward, I know they will help him. If not, don't let him change your course for you. Have faith in yourself and stick to your path.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey robt!
Thank you for being so patient with me.

I want to get better.I do.The alternative is too horrible to think about.

I am struggling with how to go about this, whilst still staying sane, still being a M and W.I am finding every f**king difficult.Its 16:38 and I dont even know whats for supper.The house is in a mess, the kids are feeling neglected, and ask me what i have done the whole day? NOTHING.
Yet I am feeling so tired and drained..again.Like I did yesterday and the day before..

I just have to get my sh*t together, but I havent a clue on how to do it.

Its all very well for IC to say I am where I need to be but what about the rest of my life and my family that this impacts?

I want to get better...but can I do this NOW? I dont have anyone IRL to pick up my slack.It just feels so selfish and self-indulgent of me.

does any of this make sense?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have faith in yourself and stick to your path

I am trying BT.Its just so bloody hard.

Btw, did I mention that I have been shortlisted for a job and the interview is next Wednesday.Its in a a field that i havent worked in before (disabled children), so I know I should be nervous, but am feeling too caught up with eveything else to even focus on getting worked up! Trust me..come next Wed, I will be a ball of nerves!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well I’ve posted the letter to OWH. He should get it tomorrow. Thanks for the input, I think it hits the right note. I don’t know if H has told OW – I really don’t care. Anyway, I’m not speaking to him right now. I woke up this morning in a bad mood. I keep having these horrible dreams about being unable to get somewhere, or of being lost amongst a crowd of people, of trying to shout and nothing coming out, trying to push people away but I have no strength in my arms and the most frequent ones of being in a hotel reception area (unknown and always different) waiting, but I don’t know what for. Usually my dreams are pleasant or ordinary. Right up till a couple of months ago. Maybe my conscience is trying to tell me something. Any one else bothered by dreams?

And as to him lurking here, I accused him of spying on me before throwing on my gym stuff and hitting the treadmill before I took my car in for a check. Then I drove all the way to another city to post the letter. I thought if she saw the postmark as from my home town or my nearest city, she would open it, whereas the city I went to is unlikely to raise her suspicions. I just hope she isn’t in the habit of opening her husband's mail.

Oh yes, LostH. What you are going through is perfectly normal. I went from being totally organised to a complete mess. My DDay was end of July, I had the whole family thing last Xmas, catering for 10 daily for a week. I themed each evening, Italian night was out at our local Italian (a touch extravagant), the other evening meals were M&S, Waitrose & Sainsbury’s. And I spent most of the time with a little too much alcohol in me. And crying in the shower. Oddly enough, no one noticed (even though I’d dropped 2 dress sizes), I just slapped on that smile every morning and slept for a whole day when they finally went. It’s ok, let them eat pizza and ice cream.

Hi Weepy – see you tomorrow!!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ukgirl, You are sounding better..good!

My dday was last year June!

But I dont think I am dealing with the fallout from the A's.I think I am dealing with the fallout of my life.And am trying to piece it together in a way thats different and better than what I did before.

One line IC said keeps ringing "How did being you (being the way I was)work for you before?"

I just cant go back there.
I have a new me to discover.

OTC,BT, whoever else travelled a new road and made it...
I know that this isnt an overnight process,so am trying to resign myself to the fact that its a long road. But if you get the time, (and I know its diff for everyone), can you outline the steps you took?a sort of cheatslist?

Its all well and good to be told that you are where you need to be,and where you are going to end up, BUT what about the inbetween time?How did you make it through that?
And how did your family deal with you in the interim?And how did you deal with them?
Its not like I can exile myself to an island and work on this.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost - let me ditto Run and BT. When you focus on yourself you WILL feel in control because you are in control of yourself. My IC told me that one of the biggest forms of stress in our lives (even "normal" people in their "normal" lives) is trying to change something over which we have no control. Only your H can decide to change himself. If he does, that's wonderful. If he doesn't then you have the control to decide what you do with that decision.

As far as the house being a mess and the kids asking for stuff....I have found that if I let them do what they want, things they normally don't get to do (play more video games, email, watch the telly (hee, hee, I can speak *English* too ) they literally run from me to go do whatever before I decide to change my mind and say no. I guess all those years of "depravation" from TV and Videos is working in my favor now.

As far as food, order in, get take out, get partially prepared stuff at the store (rotisserie chicken, etc) and add rice and a bag of salad and you are done. Even get the Dole Salads that already have the dressing in them so you don't even have to think about whether or not you have salad dressing.
(Can you tell what I have been doing to cope ).

Give the kids a swiffer or two and tell them to dust. My 7 year old thinks that is a treat. By a Roomba or a Scooba and let them do the vacuuming and washing of the floors. Let the kids load the dishwasher and run it. Who cares if the plates are in sideways? They will get clean. Hell, if I could come over and help I would.

But, in the meantime, you need to focus completely on yourself. You will gain strength from this and all the other tasks will seem less important. Good luck and keep your chin up.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl - first of all...good job on password protecting your journal. You are clearly a woman with her sh*t together. The fact that he came on here, read what you said and said you were being one-sided is ridiculous. This is YOUR side, this is for you and if he doesn't like it, tell him to feel free to post his side in Wayward or, if he really feels like getting his head ripped off, in general and see how many people agree with him.

This forum is for us and he needs to stuff it if he doesn't like that. And, please, don't hold back if you think he is reading. I think it is good for him to see, in writing, what you are feeling - makes it hard for him to ignore or say "you never said that".

Also, Kudos for going to the gym. I have had to fight to keep excercising as many days I don't feel up to it; but, it seems to be the one thing that is holding me together.

Finally, good luck with the letter. I think it was smart for you to post (tee, hee, there's my *English* again) from an unrecognizable location. Keep us up on the fallout.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley, you beat me to it. I was busy composing. Thanks for your support. There are times when I really need it and I’m so glad I stumbled on this SI site. What I was saying was ….

LostH, We are never going to be the people we were before. But for you, you have to find the person you know and want yourself to be. She’s in there, just buried by your FOO issues and your H’s infidelities. Don’t rely totally on your counsellor, he/she is there to guide you and help you focus. Use us, we’re all committed to helping and being there for each other. I also have a couple of friends who I sound off at and they know what I am going through because they’ve been there themselves – even if they are divorced!! Be kind to yourself, it’s the best thing you can do. And take heed of OTC’s list.

Meantime, try this one to the tune of: Winter wonderland (dedicated to …..the obvious)

She’s a whore, don’t she know it?
She’s a whore, and she shows it.
She let herself down
Running around
Knowing that he was a married man.

She wants my life, she can’t have it
It is mine, she can shove it
Get out of my face
You are a disgrace
Go back to your own passionless husband

You tried before and found he didn’t love you
You tried again and found it was the same
You threatened, cried and shouted *R* just leave her
But he found he loved me more and was ashamed

So that old flame, it has burned out
Your lost love, he has found out,
Get back in your box
Now you have lost
And freeze to death in winter wonderland!

Ha! Now, I can hear a bottle of wine asking to be opened. Hope tomorrow’s a better day – and that’s for all of us (((LTA tribe))).


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost - I would do a timeline, but again, it would be mine and I certainly don't want to set you up with expectations that there is a linear pathway through this. What I want to say to you is this - Sitting in the shit and feeling it without controlling, maneuvering, busying, distracting yourself away from it will most likely be one of the hardest things you'll ever do. I'm sorry to say this but for me that was a big part of the process. My tendency had always been to intellectualize my way out of things. Go into my head and think my way out of it. I held hard to the belief that if I could understand it in a way to put it all in a neat box then I would get out from under the discomfort of it. This is why I held onto my FOO issues for soooooo long. Even after years of therapy prior to Dday. Dday was the blast that rocked it all loose as well as a good IC. I could no longer employ what I had in the past to get out from the discomfort of hearing, and most importantly FEELING, those truths. So instead of looking for when you'll get out of this Lost, start asking yourself what do I need to learn and feel while I'm in this? The discomfort goes away when it's damn well ready to and not a moment sooner. It's going to be messy, hard, gut wrenching at times and ugly. Think of it as an exorcism of sorts. Green puke, head spinning, the works! I wish I could paint a better picture for you, but this was my experience. Just be in the discomfort. It's there to teach you and show you the truth of your life. The truth of who you really are and what you've been hiding from. I wish it were easier. ((((Lost)))))


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My tendency had always been to intellectualize my way out of things. Go into my head and think my way out of it. I held hard to the belief that if I could understand it in a way to put it all in a neat box then I would get out from under the discomfort of it

OTC, thats me. I want to read up on everything related (mine and H's stuff too), then put into a nice workable theory, then work out a POA, then action.Step by step.

This sitting in the shit wallowing is foreign to me. I am just sitting here. I need to do something.But I dont know what.

IC said to practice my tapping and treat myself every day.Mmmmm...

You can tell that patience isnt one of my virtues right?

Shirley, you are sounding stronger everyday.Yay!And yes, the TV can be a great babysitter.Fortunately, the kiddos love reading too, so they are fine with having "quiet" time when they are in the mood too.Although for the girls, Hannah Montana over rules anytime!

Uk, you do songs too!
I guess the rest of us have to start scratching our heads.
This is the best I can do.This is def not my forte.Its been in my head for a looong time.

(Apologies to Rod Stewart)

Have I told you lately that I despise you;
Have I told you there's noone else below you;
You fill our hearts with sadness;
Take away all our gladness;
Increase our troubles thats what you do!

FSA, look at what you have done now!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The healing isn't in the "doing" IMO Lost. It's in the being. Who you are being in any given situation. And I wouldn't call it wallowing either. Wallowing suggests to me a refusal to move forward. This is about just being in the discomfort to let it teach you. FEELING the wounds so they can heal once and for all. The best visual I can give you to my own journey through this is the scene in The Horse Whisperer where the horse finally surrenders to his fears and lays down so that he can then open himself up to a connection with people once again. That scene made me cry buckets of tears when I saw it as I was going through this. I sobbed and sobbed because it was such a powerful visual for just where I was at. ((((Lost)))))


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

I did so many things at the same time that I am sure it was counterproductive. I've written the list out before here, but I did everyting I could think of and everything most anyone else I knew of could think of. I was panicked and manic and I really feared for my sanity and my life at some points. I know that's dramatic, but it is so very true.

Some of the various therapy type things I did were pressure valves -- when IC would touch on things that were almost unbearable I would turn to 12-step work or meditation or exercise or reading.

But the key is, as OTC said, to learn to understand with your heart and soul as well as your head. To break the denial and feel the feelings that we have not allowed ourselves to feel. To sit with the sadness that before we had covered with anger or activity. To feel the pain of loss and grieve the lacks.

My analogy is that I felt like I was in a pit of primordial ooze, over my head with stuff that was the essence of my life, but that was blinding and suffocating. I fought and fought to GET OUT NOW. But, like quicksand, the more I struggled aimlessly the more trouble I found myself in. I found if I held still, I could breathe -- not the deep gulping breaths I craved, but enough to survive. And somehow sitting in among all that muck and becoming familiar with it made it less awful, until eventually I could see that it not only was gooey and dangerous, but also life-giving and uniquely mine.

Anyway, it took a long time -- 2.5 years after d-day and two years after beginning IC -- before I started feeling significantly better. During that time I put myself first -- I did what absolutely needed to be done for others, but lots of stuff I blew off.

Lots of my work involved just staying forcused on myself, since my tendancy was to shift my focus elsewhere. I continually had to drag my attention back to myself, to stop focusing on H or kids or friends or whatever. Whenever I felt angry or sad or anything, I would sit and ask myself the question: what other time does this remind me of? Or why does this little thing hurt so badly? Doing that helped me to begin to know myself for the first time.

Eventually, I came to believe that living well was mostly a matter of doing the next right thing. A big part of that was determining the kind of person I wanted to be -- literally sitting down and writing that and then beginning to live it decision by decision. That is a process that is ongoing and always will be.

I don't know if this made any sense, but there it is.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

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