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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I AM a big fake.
No you're not!!! Quit being so hard on yourself. Remember who messed up here. It was your H not you. None of us are perfect. But nothing we could have done or lacked in some kind of way, could justify what our H's did. Quit kicking yourself. NOW.
Drill Sgt has been resting so nicely. Please, please don't call her out.


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
unabletocope
♀ Member
Member # 11730
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl- I like the letter, however, I would still weigh very heavily how this could lead to a break in NC.

LH-

She said that I "present well". I can talk, act and behave like I am ok, tough, capable etc. But inside I am a mess. I have used that strategy to survive.

Me too. IRL, nobody would have a clue about what's going on in my marriage, let alone what's in my heart and head. If you are a fake, so am I. Your IC sounds so wonderful and penetrating. In the long run, she will be very good for you. I hope you are hanging in there, hon.


me-LTA BW


Posts: 2598 | Registered: Aug 2006
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She said that I "present well". I can talk, act and behave like I am ok, tough, capable etc. But inside I am a mess. I have used that strategy to survive.

I bet a lot of us have been like that at various points in our life. Smiling on the outside; aching on the inside. I'd say I spent the past year doing just that.

[This message edited by Steelergal at 11:45 AM, December 11th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh please not the Drill Sgt!!

FSA, I think she meant thats how I have coped since I was a child. I was taught very early on that we act very differently from the way we really are. There were a few times when my family would have been in the middle of something horrible (for eg.F would be beating us girls because we had made too much noise whilst he was napping)and then a visitor's car would pull into the driveway, and we would all be rushed to wash up and present ourselves loking nice and normal.I exaggerate but you get the picture.

I did that throughout the M as well.H didnt cause it but he certainly used it to his advantage.

UK, we sent the letter to OW and OWh today. H is worried about the consequences, but I just dont give a f*** anymore. What will happen will happen. I did this for ME. Sue me for being selfish.

Thank you for understanding.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We all have had to be "fakes" post D-day.....what choice did we have? You do what you have to do to survive. Some days you can stomach it and some days, you can't..so then you come here and drop the facade.

However, I call "faking it" a personal stand and allegiance to

MY DIGNITY....

...not cowering from his or the POS slut's choices and actions.....



BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA, I think she meant thats how I have coped since I was a child. I was taught very early on that we act very differently from the way we really are. There were a few times when my family would have been in the middle of something horrible (for eg.F would be beating us girls because we had made too much noise whilst he was napping)and then a visitor's car would pull into the driveway, and we would all be rushed to wash up and present ourselves loking nice and normal.I exaggerate but you get the picture.
Lost - me too. I was so accomplished at it that I didn't even know what being real was. My whole life was a facade and I never knew it was about anything more than appearances. I had the perfectly presented family but inside there was all sorts of chaos and dysfunction. If any of you have ever seen Ordinary People with Mary Tyler Moore and Donald Sutherland - that was my family. Many of us have this Lost and try looking at it like this. This is how you coped and you were strong enough to figure out a coping mechanism and survive. This is important!! You are a survivor, not a fraud my dear. This is such great work you're doing Lost. This is how many of us who are well into our healing have made it there. It sucks, it's hard to look at, harder to feel, but necessary for healing.
(((((Lost))))


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all, I have been absent from posting but have been lurking and trying to keep up. I have been devoting most of my free time going through a detailed timeline of all the women with my H. He put together a spreadsheet (how very MBAish) of names, dates, places, 'events', etc. and we have spent a couple of hours a day for the last week going through it all. It was incredibly painful but also cathartic in that I believe (if he is to be believed) that I have as accurate of a picture as he can provide. I know which were merely sex, which were EA and which were EA/PA. I know who he thought he "loved" and who he just had a "bond" with but liked the sex. I know as much as I need to know to sit back and try to digest it all and figure out whether or not it is "too much".

I have had to give him the "women's viewpoint" on some of these women. Point out to him that the one who got pregnant could not have possibly have been an accident in that she planned their sexual activities on a 28 day schedule and then *forgot* to wear her diaghram for 4 straight days. . Our fabulous MC completely agrees with my analysis which was she was trying to "force the issue" - especially as she waited until very late to have the abortion.

I had to point out that the second LTA was really just about sex if you sit back and think about it. How available she made herself, how she planned the hotels, her house, her parents house, etc. How she brought the condoms, etc. But ya wanna hear something sick? When they went to her house they always had sex in the daughters bed . Even my clueless husband thought there was something weird about this. What kind of signal does this send about her valuation of girls/women <<no, we won't have sex in the adult bed, or the guest room, or my son's room...only in my girls bed>>> again .

I know about the "massages" in Asia. I know at some level I should just grow up about that. Geez, he is in Asia and it IS just a hand job but it still pisses me off given his history.

So where I am now is digesting. Not making any rash decisions (thanks to the LTA tribe) but trying to think about what this means to me.

I will be back in a while....gotta do some kid stuff.

BTW - on the name reminder front....the longest LTA was with someone with the SAME name as me....try to avoid THAT trigger.....


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA, I think she meant thats how I have coped since I was a child. I was taught very early on that we act very differently from the way we really are. There were a few times when my family would have been in the middle of something horrible (for eg.F would be beating us girls because we had made too much noise whilst he was napping)and then a visitor's car would pull into the driveway, and we would all be rushed to wash up and present ourselves loking nice and normal.I exaggerate but you get the picture.
Yea, I think I got that o.k. especially as it reminds me of myself also. But on the other hand I don't think that we need to be down on oursleves and beat ourselves up over FOO that we had no control over. And standing up strong with a smile on while on the inside hurting is not something to be ashamed of. IMO. Also, no matter what our old FOO issues may be, did not give H any right to LTA. Of course I know you all already know that, just wanted to say it out loud (kind of).

Now ya'll excuse me, I am considering composing another masterpiece.
Just kidding.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
unabletocope
♀ Member
Member # 11730
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HurtShirley- (((((hugs)))))
He did good by making his spreadsheet for and opening himself up for the fallout. You have so much to sift through, but it sounds like your MC has got your back on this, which is great. Take as long as you need to process all of the new information and try to enjoy some of the holiday's with your kid's.

BTW - on the name reminder front....the longest LTA was with someone with the SAME name as me....try to avoid THAT trigger.....


me-LTA BW


Posts: 2598 | Registered: Aug 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the response. Will try to get H off MY laptop to finish and post it tomorrow sometime. Any last min comments still welcome.

LostH – we all learn to “present well”, including your counsellor. I did without realising. The “sure, my marriage is fine” bit. We all do it from time to time, the outward appearance. And I spent the best part of last week presenting well … still just those treasured few who are in the know, the rest? Well, I just slapped on that smile.

Hurt – just what planet is your H on??? Do you really want to know all of this? Or is he doing it to make himself seem such a desirable man (not)? Having said that, I put questions (written, in the end) to my H and then used his answers to upset OW. Boy, are you going through it. Hope your H knows what a star you are. And my H used to sleep in the matrimonial bed while OWH was away …… Don’t know how she could do it.

FSA – Looking forward to your ditty to us LTA tribe. Read it in the morning. Night all. ((()))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK Girl - he did it at my request as weird as that may seem. I needed to know exactly what we were up against, how thorough his betrayal had been before I could decide to move forward or end it. I did not want any more ddays (although there may be more yet). I wanted the closest approximation to the truth that he was capable of giving, without spin, without casting himself in the best light, without making excuses for them. In doing this I have also given him boundaries that have allowed me to see if he is changing or, at least, trying to change. I need to put limits in place and see if he is willing to respect them. I could see that, at times, it was agonizing for him to go through the details that I asked for but I need to know and if he wasn't willing to come forth then we were done. I hope that helps you understand.

Lost - You are not fake. Listen to me...you are trying to survive an abusive situation and are in self-protection mode. We all are. I can't tell you how many times over the last 4 months I have picked myself off the bed, dried the tears, put on some clothes and gone off into the real world and acted like nothing was wrong. I even had to do a 'corporate event' with the H last week that had me shaking. But we need to do what we need to do to survive.

FSA - agree with you on the lie detector. It needs to be an electric shock and I have the perfect place to hook it to...

UTC - I too watch all couples like a hawk...is he cheating on her, is she cheating on him or are they even really a couple and they are cheating together? How sad that ALL innocence is gone.

NMS - I am so proud of your restraint with your "whore-able" encounter. It must have been so fun but must have taken an amazing amount of willpower to not just walk up from behind and tap her on the shoulder and say "I know everything about you." You were subtle but to the point and I am so happy you had that chance. I wish I knew what the LTA Hos looked like so I could do the same.

Finally...in catching up....thank you FSA for being one of the few bright lights and bringing a smile to my face with your jingles. As I said, I have been lurking and they have brought me levity while I was in a dark place.

BTW: Does the "Santa" icon remind anyone else of their H sneaking in at 2am. I swear to god it is creeping me out...


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl:

I might change your last paragraph just to keep it more in line with the calm, reasonable tone of the overall letter. That tone is one of the great strengths of your letter. It will make it hard for him or her to dismiss, and yet cannot be characterized as inflammatory. It really is just the facts.

Your paragraph was:

I realise this letter could be the samurai sword dealing a fatal blow to your own marriage and I am truly sorry for any grief, heartache and soul searching you may have to endure. This is not a letter based on revenge or spite, but a need to bring in the last member of this quartet; I have a sense of empathy with you as the other aggrieved party. I still have moments of despair but I think I have sufficient emotional strength to deal with any ramifications of this communication.

I would change it to:

If you were not already aware of this affair, I realize that this knowledge will come as a shock. This is not a letter based on revenge or spite, but a need to bring in the last member of this quartet. I have much empathy for you as the other aggrieved party. If you have any questions for me, I have listed my cell phone number below.

bt


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost, I agree that you are not a fake. You are a person who has had a terrible experience and you are trying to have dignity and a sense of decorum.

FSA, I have to give you a thrashing. Last night I kept singing your ditty in my head. Then I made up my own song.

Deck the halls with the bowels of Holly.

Fal a la a la a la la la

She thinks she is so jolly
But it is all a folly

refrain

With her stove pipe hat
She thinks she is all that

refrain

She has dead gray skin
Arn't you glad you arn't her kin.

refrain

She is such a low down tart
It makes me want to fart

refrain

She likes to go to the motel.
But I think she should go to hell.

refrain

With her pursuit of other dick
Don't you think that makes her sick.

refrain

Holly really likes to roam.
Maybe she stay at home.

refrain

If she ever comes back
I'll give her a wack.

refrain

But her husband won't give her hugs.
Maybe he thinks she is such a dud.

I could say so much more.
but it's enough to say that she is is such whore.

refrain


Atually I can't post the rest of the song as it is triple x rated and so far on the lta thread we have been able to keep the mods at bay. I don't want to mess up and get a warning. LOL

[This message edited by no mor surprises at 8:35 AM, December 12th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
soverysad
♀ Member
Member # 14594
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just want to pop my head in for a moment and send hugs to the tribe. Very tired here. Not transitioning very well. Soooo many hours. H and I are struggling with each other. But trying hard to keep our family together.

Welcome to newbies.

Glad to see some old faces.

Thinking of you all and sending buckets of white light.

SVS



Posts: 518 | Registered: May 2007
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 11:11 PM, December 11th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((SVS))))

sending you hugs and many blessings


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 1:16 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((((((svs))))))))))))

I'm sorry about the transition. Keep on keepin' on, girl.

((((((((((((((((Lost))))))))))))))

Sweetie, you've been coping the only way you know how. You do what you know how to do until you know better. Stick with your IC and TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. (That's an order. )

no mor--YOU GO GIRL!!!

(((((((((shirley))))))))))

Stick around...lurking or posting. We understand.

edited to add: I'm not a very good "faker" unfortunately. That's why I'd rather just stay at home in my "safe" zone and not face anyone.

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 1:18 AM, December 12th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:02 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H has found me.

Now what?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:37 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uk, whats up?
Talk to me.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:25 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((svs)))
I know it a hectic time now, but can you take a little break? Even if its for a few hours?

Shirley,I think you and H are tackling it well.And its good that you have a MC who is working with you both on this. You are doing great!

No mor, you and FSA are certainly brightening the place up.I cant wait for Easter.

Thank you all for your support.
I am feeling numbish one minute, then the next I feel like I am in the middle of a tornado.

H read what I had written here, and he is not doing too well. He feels that I only give one point of view about our M to you guys and IC, and its not fair.He has taken offence as being cast as an abuser.He wanted to know this morning why I would say this, what has he done,theres 2 sides to every story, that I cast things that he has done or said in a bad light which are not necessarily true, and I dont give the right context for his actions.

Whew.
I am still finding my feet in this, I dont want to discuss this with him now..so I offered to bring him to IC session so he can hear IC POV. He refused. I cant deal with him. I told him we can work through this together.
I dont know.
I cant talk to him.
I am trying to understand this myself, I cant make him understand.

Honestly, I dont think he even wants to.He wants me to focus on my FOO stuff, get my head sorted, then focus on the future.He did the same thing in 2004 when I was dragging him to MC, and he made like all the problems are in my head. (He was heavy in the 2nd LTA at this time).And I believed him and went into intensive IC.

Sometimes I think he is just one big mindfuck.
Other times I think he is as lost as I am, and I need to help him.

+++++++++
Good morning FSA.
Sorry to start your day on such a low note. If you get your creative juices flowing this weekend, how about a ditty about H's who make you go grrrr??


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:54 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi LostH, Just got back from pounding the gym. But I’m still furious. He has been using my laptop since the pc crashed last Friday. And he’s been nosing around. My diary and some other docs are password protected, so they’re ok. He was up early this am and I found he had been lurking here. So he knows about the letter. Well, those who evesdrop can’t expect to hear good of themselves, or whatever that quote is. This space was supposed to be for me - he promised. Seems those lies are still glibly passing his lips. Sometimes I just wish he’d found a smidgen of courage and p*ssed off when he’d rediscovered her, then I wouldn’t be dealing with his sh*t now.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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