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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quite alright Lost H

I understand your and BT's question. It's the same one I keep asking myself. How do I trust someone who can still lie or at the very least be evasive with me concerning A related issues.

IC posed a question to me last week. As far as our future relationship. Do I want to heal the old R or do I want to start over with a new one. The old R is pretty screwed up. But starting with a new one, I'll have to be able to lie the past to rest. I think this is probably my only option here. Starting fresh. But how do you do that with someone you've been M to for 21 years. But that is something I am trying to move toward. Fresh New-The past doesn't exist. Of course I'll probably have to be a little psycho to pull that one off, but then if the shoe fits, wear it!!!!

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sorry don't mean to hog the board, but I just thought of something else.

H had to go (work related) off this morning for a few hours. I was fine with it. But when he returned to town (and he had stayed in close contact with me while he was gone) he brought me a beautiful card that he had stopped and bought. It was one of those ooey gooey love cards. You're my life my everything kind of card. But I think it was nice of him to think about me while he was gone. He knows that most of the time when he is out of town, and I can't verify where and what he is doing, that I trigger. But I didn't this morning. Just a little plus for him.


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning Tribe!

Have question this morning for LTA survivors. Was reading the post in Recon. "how much is reasonable amount of time?" How long did it take for your WS's fog to lift and complete NC take place?

FSA - I obviously am also really stuggling with the trust issue and have been for quite awhile. When I'm with him I trust him and believe I can. When I'm not with him, I doubt everything.

I recently figured out how to check his work emails and how done so a couple times. First time a month ago and they had emailed back and forth. Nothing personal at all, and was on his b-day so could have been one time thing. (Now who's in a fog?) Nothing since then.

This was a 4 year EA/PA affair and they both fell in love.
I now know it was naive (sp?)of me to think they could end it cold turkey. Shirley Glass's article says to allow some time to come out of the fog and end addiction. Responders to this post gave 6-12 months time frame.
How much time do you think is reasonable? I don't know if he is in a fog or my mind thinks he is.

I can only keep checking emails and try not to tip my hand that I am doing this. I don't think I could live through another DDay!


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurt I can't help you on the fog question. I don't think that was a problem for my H. His had gone on so long that I truly think it was a total relieve for him to stop. I know there was at least one contact after Dday (right after). One of those, thanks a million for ruining my life, now leave me alone. I don't think there has been anymore contact since then. If any it might have been a couple of calls in the first couple of days. He admits to the one. He didn't for a long time, but then finally came clean on that one.

If you are able to check his email and him unaware. I would continue to do so, at least for a little while. Once an ample amount of time has passed with nc, I would probably give that up. It's just going to be something that keeps you on edge. IMHO.


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurt, I can only respond about our situation. And remember, this is all on H's say so, nothing can be confirmed.

H stopped "seeing" the pros in the summer of 2001. He bought me the "guilt" jewelry in December 2003. During that time he "broke" his addiction by turning to porn. He threatened divorce in Sept 2004 and then we worked out what I thought were our differences.

August 2005, he "slipped" and Dday was 3 weeks later.

My H didn't de-fog until months after Dday. But our situation was different.

But in my estimation, since I really do feel like I caught him in the affairs (her funeral, deathbed vigil, the hooker in AC), it took almost a year before he actually said "the affairs were my responsibility, you had nothing to do with that decision." HOWEVER, he still feels he MADE that decision because of our M situation, not because of something in him. Just what he had brought to the M along with my illness. He still sees the A as marital issue not a personal one.

SO in that respect, my H had not yet defogged.... 6 years.

[This message edited by weepy at 11:23 AM, December 5th (Wednesday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a little plus for him.

FSA, every little plus counts.

I am also curious about how we go with the "past doesnt exist" route.
We would def need to be alittle psycho to pull that off.Unfort I worry that the shoe fits me way too well.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtbuthappy
♀ Member
Member # 14539
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA and Weepy - Thanks for the replies. Don't think I can wait 6 years.

Just recently accepted (?) that there probably wasn't NC for sometime. I don't think the A has continued but I do believe they have talked. More than he has told me. To me that is still EA and more lies/deceit.

IC keeps telling me I have to decide if I want to trust, which means me feeling vulneribility, but possibly getting something wonderful in return.

I know if he wants to cheat he will and I may never know. He has gotten very skilled at going underground. But I have to remember things are soooo much better than they have been the past 5 years.

He is doing/saying everything to help me and show me how much he loves me. Why can't that be enough for me? And when will I let it be enough?

I am getting so sick of hearing one day at a time in my head!! I want my future back!

Sorry just needed to vent and cry for awhile. Retail therapy is next. Thanks for any input tribe.


M-25 years
2 kids

Posts: 131 | Registered: May 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am also curious about how we go with the "past doesnt exist" route.

My H is the one who can't figure out how to do this. He says I can't just treat him like we have no history except since we started MC. I said I can... I can judge you on your actions for the last 2 years... the first year sucked, the second, you're getting better.

But I WILL always remember the lies, the betrayal, the gaslighting, the abuse. I will, I know it. I'm just trying to see if we can get somewhere better at all, that will let me live with the fact that I lost so many years.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a little ditty for snaggletooth

The wheels of the bus ran
over you
Over you
Over you
The wheels of the bus ran over you
Right down your face

The bitches on the bus can relate with you
Relate with you
Relate with you
The bitches on the bus can relate with you
'Cause your one too

The men on the bus go


The men on the bus go
Looking at your snaggletooth face

The dentist on the bus say "oh my gosh"
"Oh my gosh"
"Oh my gosh"
The dentist on the bus say "Oh my gosh"
Wondering how could it be

The ladies on the bus sit away from you
Away from you
Away from you
The ladies on the bus sit away from you
B/c they know you're a slut

The kids on the bus run and hide
Run and hide
Run and hide
The kids on the bus run and hide
'Cause their parents have taught them about the boogy man

The wheels of the bus ran over you
Over you
Over you
The wheels of the bus ran over you
Just like you deserved

Can you tell I'm having somewhat of a boring day at work!!!!

Snaggletooth if you're out there. You're very welcome!!!

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh FSA!
I really did miss you!!

Going to bed now with a thriller in one hand and a huge Toblerone in the other.
H has the kids and the house for the rest of the evening.

Goodnight all.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK... quick update note:
Our son is getting married tomorrow. I am flying there today! Booked online just before midnite.
We (H & I) talked with him several times yesterday and he's feeling better. She sounds lovely (1/2 hour chat this AM).
I may not be able to post until I return (Tuesday) but I'll try. I'll be thinking of all of you and appreciate your concerns for us. Thanks OTC and FSA for the reassuring messages. So glad I found this place... despite the reason why.
{{{LTA}}}

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Going to bed now with a thriller in one hand and a huge Toblerone in the other.
?????? Am I the only one that doesn't know what that is? Hope it's good.

Lostsoul, good luck. All we can do is raise them and then let them go. I thought one of my sons was making a mistake when he M. But he's been M now for 5 years and seems to be doing o.k. But you must give him a good slap on the rear for giving you such short notice. Tell him that is just not acceptable!!!!!

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - We've got ya covered for tomorrow. Let the chanting begin!!!

FSA - Toblerone - DELICIOUS chocolate bar!!!
Also LOVED the lyrics for Snagglebitch! I see the old poetically creative FSA is back to her old self!! A good sign.

LostS - Good luck!! I hope you find your DIL to be a complete delight and a wonderful addition to the family.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA,

I miss you, too. That was a scream.

As for the lies. I would take the risk of giving him some space and having faith that he will make further progress if you do. By this point, I think you know the answers to most everything important, yes? At some point, I think you have to draw the line on details for your own sanity.

All these years later I still have questions that pop into my head, but I think long and hard about asking them. Not because I think he will lie, but because I know that his former way of life holds such deep shame for him.

I love this man and it has to be something really important for me to intentionally ask something that will make him feel bad. The cost/benefit outcome has to be significant. If it is, I ask. If not, I don't.

Open up a little and see how it feels. If he messes up we'll all come down there and beat the crap out of him.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for my H and his lies about the A. I think alot of my questions boil down to me trying to have the power to make him tell the truth. I mean, I know he had LTA and there are some pretty ugly details that I know. What more could I possibly want.
He is afraid to tell the whole truth, in case this will be the final straw and I will finally walk out. Me, I want to have the power over him to make him tell the truth no matter what. round and round we go.
So I really do need to practice the "just don't ask".

His actions now and in the future are what I need to focus on and base the rest of our M on. If I continue to focus on the past behavior, we're finished. I must look toward the future. I must look toward the future. I must look toward the future. Maybe if I say it enough I can actually do it.

Boy, have I hogged the board today or what. Guess I'm just making up for some lost time. It's awful nice when the boss is out of the office.


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think alot of my questions boil down to me trying to have the power to make him tell the truth.

I tell you what, it is both a real bad and a real good moment when you finally accept that you don't have that power, you never did and you never will.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, best of luck to you! Knock 'em dead.

Lost Heart--I LOVE Toblerone. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
FSA, good to see your creative juices flowing again!

Lostsuol, geosh! I don't know what to say. Um...we'll just hope for the best for your son and his new bride!

Shirley Glass's article says to allow some time to come out of the fog and end addiction. Responders to this post gave 6-12 months time frame.
How much time do you think is reasonable?

See, I guess I'm just hard-core. NO TIME. Get over her now or get the f**k out. Buh-bye.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His actions now and in the future are what I need to focus on and base the rest of our M on.

I just said this to my H this week. We can't change the past, it is what it is - ugly, horrific and destructive. But if we see real change, real commitment to work through this, to make up for their sins, and to do whatever it is we need to heal, then maybe, just maybe we have a future with our FWH's. I want this for all of us here. We deserve this and nothing less. I also told my H that I don't want a M based on financial security alone. I want something better than we ever knew we could have. NOTHING LESS. I want connection, commitment, and passion. I think every one of our H's is damn lucky that we are giving them this opportunity. My H had his IC'ing session today and told him what I had said earlier this week, that I'm ready to move on - to put this in the past. Our MC told him he was truly blessed that I have given him this opportunity - they all are. I only wish they really, truly knew that.
BT - good luck tomorrow. Let us know asap!
Lostsoul - thinking of you and your family - congrats! I hope your DIL is all and more that your son believes her to be. My son did something similar 2 years ago - married abroad telling me he didn't want to come back home without her. Well, she is a sweetheart - I couldn't have asked for a better DIL. I absolutely love her. Now they're living overseas again and I miss her as much as him. Good thing I get to be with them is just a few weeks.
Toblerone - yum but better yet, Lindt chocolate!

Lost Heart - glad to hear you sounding better. Hope to see you soon.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 4:52 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boy, I was away a week and have missed a lot. Sorry so many are hurting, on all ends of the spectrum. But mostly I'm sorry for me today!!

I posted this on the OC thread, but wanted to check in and fill you in on my visit.

Visit with OC went fine--he's a congenial toddler who is warming to me and H and I had 3 days of visiting, playing, etc. That part is okay.

OW still gets between us though--she wants private time with H to discuss their kid, and who knows what else--I think she wants to maintain an emotional R with H, something to make her feel her child is part of a family of those three--and I don't think that's feasible for our M.(I have to say that H agrees with me and does a lot to disabuse her of that notion by his actions, but he doesn't confront her the way I think is becoming more necessary--still wants to manage it little by little--torturous as it is).

H is trying what he can to keep their R solely over the child, but he does have "concern" for her as I've mentioned before, he relates it to the R with the child and not messing that up by having constant confrontations with OW with all the resulting tensions.

So we had our own confrontations about that--she doesn't want me present during their discussions about the child, which I agreed to since they were meeting for pick-up and drop-off in a public cafe--and the first day she said whether or not I accompany H getting to the cafe or dropping off at the end of the day was "our business".

Then she had her own meltdown,reversed what she said, didn't want to see my face, asked him if he could wait to call me to come after their discussion, he said no, and it disintegrated from there.

Problem was that I also had a meltdown, threw out the idea that I couldn't do this visit after visit, that it wouldn't work if he was willing to risk getting emotionally involved again (or more for all I know) by agreeing to a more separate situation picking up or dropping off. H felt that I was saying that what he was trying to do and was doing isn't good enough to make me feel safe or loved or whatever--and it discourages him and makes him feel hopeless--don't know what to do with all that.

At the moments of my meltdowns, I DO feel hopeless, and he can't just tell me what I want to hear, cuz his first concern is the R with his kid and how whatever R he has with OW will affect the kid if it's too tense, adversarial, or whatever. And now we're home and jet lagged and I'm still feeling somewhat hopeless.

Next visit isn't til the spring--and I don't know what to do. I really do not want to throw in the towel, my son is getting married in May (which we just found out and are thrilled about), and I don't want to wreck the wedding by leaving before it--and I still have this hope that it will work out somehow and H and I can make it--but it's a downward ride on the roller coaster for me today.


About the length of the fog and all that--I wish I knew. We can't have NC the way people can who have no OC, and that is a big stumbling block, as is obvious from my post!!! That, plus the fact that H did have a "R" with OW, makes it that much harder for the fog to completely lift, or for the whole infidelity experience to recede into the past--I can see that time does help, but there's a setback every time there is contact with OW with the accompanying confrontations. So the time frame of 6-12 months someone mentioned, and Glass talks about, sounds like an ideal to strive for, but there are sometimes other factors which slow that down. Not just an OC I guess, but individual personalities, needs, fantasies, all that, which might interfere with the fog lifting or feelings dissipating--and each of us has to make the decision about how long to wait, what to look for, what to accept, what to resign ourselves to, what is worth it.

As someone said, one can never control how someone else is feeling, all we can do is respond to how they're acting, both towards us the BS and towards OW if that's an issue of contact cuz of work or an OC or just general proximity of the OW.

Someone months ago posted a sad description of herself--she too was an "older" BS, who said that they stayed together but she described their M as a partnership of two bitter, old people who live together. I REALLY don't want that to be me--


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, December 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geez! Trying to catch up from just today!

((((25W))))) you sound like you need hugs. It must be so difficult to not have NC due to the OC. You seem like you are making such sacrifices to make this work. I hope you are doing what you all have told me to do which is "taking care of yourself". Any chance of taking a break for the next couple of days to recoup. BTW - congrats on the news of your S upcoming event in May. More happy details?

BT - I will be sending you power signals. Ex-Wall Street myself so you must have noticed that I didn't even attempt to give advice on dress for your interview (I wore RED on CNBC while I was PREGNANT!!!! )

LostS - I know you are already on your way. Wishing you all the best. Sorry about my cynical comments and hoping your S has a life filled with joy.

FSA - Ummm...can we figure out a way to have your boss out of the office everyday so that you can keep us all entertained and laughing. Your take on "wheels on the bus" had me ROTFLMAO.

Not an easy task these days.

Today is the 16 week mark. Have it programmed into the online calendar so that I can keep track of how long my life has sucked even worse. I guess at some subconscious level, if I see the weeks ticking off online I know that "tme" may be happening and I will get better. Only "time" will tell.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

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