Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: SoCalBoy (43217)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 3
Strider75
♂ Member
Member # 13596
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my case OM, was XWW's best friend's husband. Our families had done all sorts of stuff together.

My opinion of OM is lower than my opinion of a cockroach. Of course, my opinion of XWW is also lower than a cockroach...


Sometimes I wish there was a way to have do-overs in life.

Posts: 5033 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Atlanta, GA
changedbypain
♂ Member
Member # 19646
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cani4give, I was right where you seem to be at when I was a year out, including feeling like life was Hell and wanting the same thing for the other man.

While you and I seem to have had many of the same realizations, it really is only time that can allow the heart to heal enough to let us put our realizations into real practise.

When we can do that, we are able to choose that our life isn't going to be hell. For me, that choice was manifested by my refusal, finally, to leave it in the hands of a child.

And I extend that "child" analysis to the other man; how could someone willing to betray his own wife and children (and even apart from that, someone who isn't enough of a man to honour the fact that the woman he is attracted to is someone else's wife) be seen with anything other than contempt and derision. The big reason I think we struggle with this is that our spouse has chosen him ahead of us - but when we understand the immaturity and silliness of her perspective, all power is removed from that argument as well.

But by none of this do I suggest that we come to permanently "look down" at our wives - to me, this would guarantee unhappiness for everyone. Rather, I have found that gaining the perspective I'm describing has been the only way to start healing from what is almost impossible pain. And the side effect of attaining this sort of indifference is that it has removed the dynamic where my wife was allowed power through her childish ways of coping - with the result in our case that she has sought an adult approch.

I firmly believe too that even if she had chosen to remain a child, which would have meant the end of our marriage, that would have been fine for me as well. Ie, the actual outcome was not able to be my focus. I, and what I deserved had to be my sole concern (I find it fascinating how my wife, and I assume other spouses, was/were able to tell and draw power if we are concerned about losing them).

Best of luck to you guys in your quests.


Changedbypain

Posts: 64 | Registered: May 2008
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think we give the OM too much credit most of the time. He is just a man, with a dick, and we all know where that can lead. Whether preditor or prey, he made a choice, just as our W's did. Until there is more of a consequence for such an action, this is going to happen.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And the real, flawed, undeveloped person that was willing to pursue another married man for some ridiculous and false validation, was not in fact worth having or trying for. When I think now of the details of the affairs, anger has been replaced with pity, and pain has given way to indifference.

changedbypain - IMHO pity and indifference will lead to the demise of your relationship. Love is fueled by a fire much greater than those two emotions.

Do you feel your current relationship is a desirable situation and are you comfortable going forward with such conditions?

I personally never want to find myself in another relationship dominated by complacency.

(I find it fascinating how my wife, and I assume other spouses, was/were able to tell and draw power if we are concerned about losing them).

Or vice versa via the 180.


-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9145 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
Ethelred
♂ Member
Member # 23332
Default  Posted: 6:23 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying to find a formula for success...

Hey guys, I have really been in a sea of estrogen for the past few years as I've been reading about relationships, so many of the books I've read are targeted towards a female audience, maybe even an Oprah audience. But, I have been very willing to learn, I would even read Cosmo if I thought there was something useful in there.

Now, the wife has already said she is not in love with me but she wants to stay married, so we can raise our beautiful kids together. . . . Does not want to have sex again. AND. AND. Two months ago I discovered she has been having lots of cybersex with many guys for the last five years, while I have been faithful (worst I have done is surf the occasional porn site during our no sex period).

SO...

Maybe I should think this is not so bad. I could (psychologically) have a life like a pioneer family from the ancient times. One where you work hard all day long and are grateful for what you have in life, even though your teeth all fall out by the time you're 35 and you die when you're 60. One where you are grateful that your kids didn't get eaten by bears, or lose an arm to the newfangled harvesting machine you bought. One where you stand in the middle of your field on your plot of land with your pitchfork with a vague look of pain on your face. One where some smart aleck comes and asks you if you ever made love with your wife and your eyes bug out and you say "of course, young'in, we have twelve kids, what are you talking about?"

But that life is not what I had hoped for. Sure, the sex was never great and I was pretty neglectful of a lot of aspects of the marriage while I worked on my career. But, now the marriage has my FULL ATTENTION. And I realize it may already be too late, like our marriage got pulled off the line and got tossed into the "defective" bin.

I have read so many books.
How to become an Alpha Male!
The Art of Attraction!
Saving your Marriage!
How to Spice up your Love Life!

I have listened to all kinds of podcasts. They have all kinds of HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS.

Buy her flowers.
Compliment her.
Date her again.
Learn how to listen.
Never forget her birthday or anniversaries!

NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN WORKING.

Then I discovered the cybersex/EA.

I feel like just so I can be at peace with this thing I am building up to confronting her about the cybersex (stay tuned). However, I am not necessarily confident on the outcome. I think I will fire the cannons of confrontation re cybersex, and then withdraw. I have a responsibility to expose the cybersex and make sure she is on notice that I will divorce her over this, because I have to protect my kids from the fallout (some have told me that divorce will make things worse, but I need to have a boundary somewhere).

After I confront her I will be 100% paying attention to her reaction.

She had better show strong interest in marriage counseling and cleaning up her act (or be a good enough liar for me to believe her), or I think I will pull the plug anyway. I will do as much of a 180 as is possible with joint custody, I will even go NC where possible.

I am SO TIRED of being the one who has always been pining away after this marriage and wanting to make this work. It's going to be her move damn soon.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Married: almost 20 years
D-Day: 2009 (cybersex for over 5 years, associated EAs); in the dark about PAs, no full disclosure.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry man, she's SA? Ok then, fun (and all that) while it lasted, till her real unhealed broken-self came out/was revealed.
I'm finding out it's poison.

To heal...meaning move on, grow, not get stuck? Means workin on my OWN core,
independent of her, and her fuked-up "needs".
Poor thing.
She created a monster.
Awareness.


Posts: 6027 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

changedbypain - IMHO pity and indifference will lead to the demise of your relationship. Love is fueled by a fire much greater than those two emotions.

Do you feel your current relationship is a desirable situation and are you comfortable going forward with such conditions?

I personally never want to find myself in another relationship dominated by complacency.

Maybe I'm reading cbp through the lens of my own conclusions, but I wouldn't call what he's describing "complacency". One of the big realizations that came along with my healing was that I wanted less of a marriage than I had before. Not that I wanted to *settle* for less, but that I actually wanted less.

I was tired of subsuming my life in a role of husband/father and being disappointed because I felt like my life was passing me by while I was making all of these sacrifices for "the marriage". I don't want to do that anymore. I want to live a life that interests me...and right now, that life includes my wife.

What I don't have any desire for is some sweeping love story where our grandkids talk about how much grandma and grandpa loved each other and we're remembered as participants in a marriage who had this great love story.

That isn't to say I don't enjoy my marriage today, but if it goes away tomorrow, I'll enjoy my life without it just as much. KWIM?

Now, in the 2.5 years since D-day, my wife has only rarely raised the issue of "I feel more connected to you than you do to me". I've dealt with that by telling her what I'm willing to give. She may decide at some point that she can't be happy with a marriage that is less entwined/less romance-novel than the one we had before.

If that's what she wants, she has an obligation to herself to move on, because that's not the deal I'm bringing to the table.

But at the same time, I wouldn't call that complacency...it's just adopting a different set of priorities and definitions for what you want out of a marriage.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ethelred, man I know exactly what your going through. Nine years ago I was put in your same situation. I did find out later there was a PA with a former BF of my WW. I have to admit I was so desperate to save the M, that nothing could be over come. I didn't find out till I accedently logged on to her computer and saw the life she was living. Basically going all out on the cybersex, multiple guys from all over including one she was planing to met in a week that would have been up in our area.

When I did confront her I got the: "I haven't been happy in our M, I was the one that made her stray, etc." We did go to M counsuling for a year. It had to be one she agreed on through our church. Instead of the Affairs and such being talked about it was all about what I was doing in the Marriage. How I had to step, how my WW was overwhelmed, etc.

7 Years later I got the Email, from one of my WW's, WH's BW. My WW hadn't stopped, she just hid it better. I took all the responsiblity in the M to heart and did my best.

Ya can't fix broken! When you get to see how someone really is, that WHO THEY ARE!

Divorce sucks no 2 ways about it. But long term I know damn well my now XWW will never stop with her addictions. She still after 2 years hasen't changed.

Confront her, I would do it with a friend of the family. This is what I did the second time around. Just to make sure of a neutral 3rd party.

You don't have to live your life like this. You can rebuild, and find someone that truly loves you...


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
changedbypain
♂ Member
Member # 19646
Default  Posted: 11:57 PM, March 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thyme2go, I can confirm that wincingatlight is correct that I'm not describing complacency about my marriage.

My references to indifference and pity were in relation to the details of the affair, and the state I've finally reached towards those when they invariably come back into my mind, as they seem to for all of us.

I fully agree that carrying those attitudes towards our marriages, or our wives for any length of time, would lead to the end of the relationship or at least any chance for happiness in it.

I am actually quite happy and fulfilled in my marriage now, but that only became possible after my wife made changes that had to happen. And those changes only occurred after I left the marriage for a time and made it clear that it was the conditions of the old marriage that I wouldn't continue under.


Changedbypain

Posts: 64 | Registered: May 2008
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 1:18 AM, March 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am actually quite happy and fulfilled in my marriage now, but that only became possible after my wife made changes that had to happen. And those changes only occurred after I left the marriage for a time and made it clear that it was the conditions of the old marriage that I wouldn't continue under.

Was it 100% ownership of the A, And working on why the A occurred in the first place?

Personally I knew that was something I never would get. Instead of hanging on the past I moved on. I got to tell ya Good guys like us are a very much rare breed. I was on the dating market all of 2 months. I found the person of my dreams. Been have the most increadible time with her since. By far my best relationship ever.

Guys like us are the cream of the crop, why hold on to someone that isn't?


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
Lonerider
♂ Member
Member # 9205
Default  Posted: 11:03 AM, March 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ethelred,

I think it was in Glass's "Not Just Friends" but a common part of infidelity is the less committed partner is the one who strays, they have less at stake in the marriage.

You can't make a great marriage all by yourself.


BS me 43 years old
WS her 45 years old
married 14 years, together 20
2 kids
D-day 7/15/05

Posts: 4225 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: western NY
changedbypain
♂ Member
Member # 19646
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, March 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was it 100% ownership of the A, And working on why the A occurred in the first place?

Yes, TwiceTorn. And when I left, I didn't expect to receive that, as it hadn't happened in the past.

I guess though that for my wife, my decision presented her with a price (the loss of her marriage, and the division of her family) that she decided was higher than the price involved in addressing her issues. Sadly, I think that it is what it takes for some of these "under-developed" individuals.

She stopped deflecting and went to IC for some time, and has since demonstrated an adult approach to her life (when she does lapse into her old, childhood responses I no longer let it slide - we discuss it and she has shown a consistent will to stop, think and overcome those old approaches). I can relate to this process because I had to learn it too at one time.

I have no doubt you made the right decision in your circumstance. Guess our decisions were actually the same - it was our partner's responses that varied, which of course neither of us could control.


Changedbypain

Posts: 64 | Registered: May 2008
toonice
♂ Member
Member # 19862
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, March 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The agonizing and constant question "How could she do this to me?" has been answered with the reality that "The person I thought she was couldn't have. The person she actually is, which she concealed from me, could do it quite easily because she has the emotional maturity of a child."

Yes - this is the conclusion that I've come to with my FWW as well.

From this follows the reality that I no longer have to be bound by her judgments of me, or her past failures to treat me fairly, just as I would not place any weight on my young child's attitude towards me.

And this is a huge side-benefit. Because I endured that crap for the first 15 years. And I endured that crap from a previous serious GF as well; who also cheated, and left me for OM.

So - at first, I *did* have a lot of blame and hatred pointed at the OM. I think I did that because I was afraid to direct it at FWW, because I was afraid that would end our M. Probably true.

But I eventually came to realize, that even in her "complicated" sitaution, with her excuses and justifications - she STILL decided to drive over to OM's house and fuck him 3-4 times a week for 5 years. She still brought him over to our house for family events and holidays and parties. She still let him get away with stealing a significant chunk of money from us, our family. She wasn't forced to do these things. She only THOUGHT she was. And this is the mental calculus of a 3 year old. That's how I started to redirect my anger at FWW.

I went from "I can't let him live - someday later, I will hunt him down and leave him face-down in a ditch." to "He's a disgusting parasite, and a coward, and he will get what's coming to him, but I'm not going to sacrifice my values and honor for him."

The problem is: now that I consider my FWW to be, frankly, mentally incompetent, incapable of making rational, adult decisions - I'm having a difficult time re-engaging in trying to fix the M. I'm more focused on me right now.

I guess it's still one-day-at-a-time for me. And I'm watching her very slow progress in IC closely. I just don't think I'm still going to have any feelings for the end result. The illusions I had when I fell in love with her are what shattered more than my heart. My heart may heal. But do I want to return to that life of illusion? Once you swallow that red pill, you can't ever go back into the Matrix.


Stronger than reason, stronger than lies, the only truth I know, is the look in your eyes.
BH(42) FWW(41; 8+ OM/OW, 5 year LTA)
M: 16yrs, 2 kids DS16, DD13. d-day 6/17/2008 (after 9 months of MC+gaslighting).

Posts: 4898 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: CA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, March 25th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't want to start a new thread in General for this, so I'll post it here.

The Thing Cracking Me Up Tonight

Tomorrow is xOM's birthday. I know this because we were best friends, and his birthday is exactly 1 week after mine (which meant he used to tease me all week about being an old man -- we're the same age otherwise).

And because I know him so well, I know that he's going to spend tomorrow next to a phone and incessantly checking his e-mail in case my wife decides to contact him. (Note: the broken NC that led to D-day #2 last year came to my attention because I intercepted an e-mail from him to my wife on her birthday.)

The image of him checking his e-mail over and over and being disappointed gives me a nice, warm feeling.

Welcome to your life, dumbass.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, March 26th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This lack of sex is getting to me bigtime!!! WTF?? We're in this mess because she fucked other guys, but I can't get some, FUCK!!!!

Sorry guys, it just spews forth, sometimes.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, March 26th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you, Jimi. Though I don't have this particular issue to deal with, I can predict that it would royally piss me off and fill me with resentment.

Fair or not, it's just a base expectation for me that if she was willing to throw away the marriage to get laid (especially once she hit the stage where she was fucking him to keep him from telling me about the A), then she can have sex with me when she might not be immediately in the mood.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, March 26th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good thing my hand is faithful!! And coincidently always in the mood, exactly when I am.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
LeftHanging51
♂ Member
Member # 13826
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello fellows.

It's been a while since I posted here. A lot has happenned, and I think I need a reality check.

Quick background: My wife and I married in August '05. It is a second marriage for both of us, we both have grown children from our prior marriages.

D-day #1 was in February '07 when I first learned of her affair. To the best of my knowledge the affair began the previous summer. There wwere a few more D-days, culminating in September '07. At that point I decided I could no longer stay with her, so I moved out and got my own place mid-October '07. During the period since we were living apart we still psent a lot of time together and worked on the relationship. I kept going back and forth in my mind as to whether I wanted to remain married to her and eventually move back in together, or chuck the whole thing and get a divorce.

Well, I decided to get back together with her. She moved into my apartment the first weekend of March, so we were living apart for a total of 16 months. During the period of separation I went for IC, and she and I went for MC together. I felt I'd gotten to the point where I could put her A in its own place, and try to mocve forward.

So we've been living together for a month. The move itself was a bit stressful, mainly because she didn't do a good job planning her move and brought a lot of unnecessary crap with her.

Here's my problem....Over the last couple of years, and especially during the period of separation, I've been spending a lot less time dwelling on the affair. Now, since we're once again living together, I have a daily reminder of the affair and I'm having all of those negative feelings of anger, hurt and betrayal again.

I have no reason to suspect that she's doing anything behind my back, and that she's put the A completely behind her. As far as I know, there's been NC with the OM. My feelings go back to all of the D-Days. I never expected that things would ever go back to how they were before I learned of the A, but I didn't think that moving back in together would bring me back to square one.

I know I need to give this some time, but I really feel that the marriage was damaged beyond repair, and that this moving back in together wasn't such a good idea.

So, I guess I'm looking for someone to tell me that: a) what I'm feeling is perfectly normal, and that it may change over time, or b) I'm kidding myself to think that this is going to work.

I'm not asking for advice, but more of a reality check.


D-Day #1: 2/07
D-Day #2, #3, #4,....too many to count
Me (BS): 54
WW: 57
Married 8/05 (2d marriage for both)
Divorced Feb. 2011

Posts: 161 | Registered: Mar 2007
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you talk to her about how you're feeling? How does she react?


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35369 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
LeftHanging51
♂ Member
Member # 13826
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have talked to her, but I say that maybe part of what i'm feeling has to do with the fact that the apartment is still a bit of a mess due to her trying to unpack her stuff. I don't consider myself a neat freak, but i resent having all of her unnecesasary clutter underfoot, so that has a lot to do with my mood. I know she wants to make this work.


D-Day #1: 2/07
D-Day #2, #3, #4,....too many to count
Me (BS): 54
WW: 57
Married 8/05 (2d marriage for both)
Divorced Feb. 2011

Posts: 161 | Registered: Mar 2007
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.