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User Topic: Reconciling with the "Emotionally Unavailable"
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, January 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

skye, because he is really emotionally detached from the game. He doesn't have a "stake" in the outcome, like he does in the M.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, January 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I come to SI to look for light bulb moments. Thank you for giving me one, weepy.

Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
hellonearth
♀ Member
Member # 11919
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, January 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all, we're still S, have a MC appt tonight, thank GOD.

He just can't come to me, he can't express his feelings when he's hurting. It's awful, awful, awful. He doesn't do this with anyone, it's not just me, it's just that it REALLY hurts me. It really hurts him as well, but obviously not enough for him to focus on changing this behaviour (or lack of).

He has done this for YEARS.

My WH suffered panic and anxiety attacks for 1 yr. (the crushing chest pain types) and he didn't tell me about it for A YEAR. This was about 6 mos pre-A's when he finally went to the dr. When he went, I was right by his side, supporting him through all the heart tests etc to rule out anything really wrong, I was there. Why is it that he doesn't think I will be there for him now. He knows that I NEED to hear his feelings, I NEED to hear and see actions of his remorse, I need for him to make AMENDS (to amend, is to change, right?!!) Instead my WH is same old, same old, curls up in a ball like a little kid and then he avoids and goes to the casino or gets high (marijuana). Destructive behaviours. NO change!

Now, if I'm needing support, need to talk about MY feelings from the A's, he shuts right down, he feels BAD, but he does NOT express those feelings, he instead chooses to put his head down in shame, leave and avoid ME for a day or two. He choses ANGER instead of remorse, he starts feeling really bad for the pain (and has a hard time facing it) and then to protect himself, he thinks to himself that I'm not there for him, that I hate him, that I don't love him,etc etc etc.
I am way past lashing out insults at him and trying to punish him, but geese louise when I see this continued behaviour from him, which translates to lack of remorse, and not making amends, not being there for ME, I remember why we're seperated.............I deserve more than this.

He continues his mantra of "wanting to change", "I'm going to change", less talk, more action please. His word means absolutely nothing. I feel sorry for him, and I do still love the man, but I can't change him, and I can't help him, if he doesn't help himself first.

Just needed to put my thoughts down on paper guys (well, computer!!-LOL)

Can an EU person REALLY change?? Can someone who has NEVER expressed his true feelings (when they're feelings of sadness or hurt) REALLY change that??? I believe the answer is "yes" as I believe that anyone can change if THEY really want to. So, I have to wonder how badly my WH wants this M???


ETA: My WH screams at the tv during hockey games too......I think it's because he can express his feelings to an inanimate object, one that can't communicate back..........kind of like, he can write his feelings down on paper, AFTER days on end of avoidance, disrespecful and/or non-supportive behaviour towards me. He always seems to "get it", seems to always "understand", after the fact.

[This message edited by hellonearth at 1:09 PM, January 21st (Monday)]


BS-Me-39 FWH-Him-38
Together 23 yrs. 1 son 9 yrs old
Dday#1-Aug 06
TT until Nov 06
False R until Jan 08-too much anger/defensiveness, lack of consistent support from him
S- Jan 08-July 08
Aug 08-Fall 2011-rugsweeping
back in MC and IC trying

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Canada
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, January 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's interesting that you say your husband can write his feelings down. So can my husband. Do they think we will react differently to their writing vs. their speaking, I wonder?

Have you ever thought about a life coach as opposed to a therapist? I've been reading about coaches and wonder if that is not what my husband needs.

I have reached the point, though, where I am not only waiting for him to change but he has to initiate all of it. Doubt he even knows much about life coaches. Imho, he needs to not only become emotionally involved, he needs to seek it out on his own.

My doing for him is what I always did as a wife and I'll be damned if I'll give him the life he had before he cheated since he didn't value it at the time.


Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, January 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You all will understand this. Part of the poem I'm constructing for H.

It stands between you and me, you and life, you and yourself.
Behind it, there’s no discomfort, pain
No past, no future, only now, this minute
There is no memory

Behind the wall are the ancient boxes of truth, fear, weakness, love, insecurity, self-loathing
Strapped down, locked up, inaccessible, unwanted, yet undeniable
Protected by your guard dogs, Anger and Mistrust

And you, the gatekeeper, the mask, the pretender, the actor standing guard
Preserving and presenting an image to the world
Hiding behind jokes and a smile, or cynicism and sarcasm, or callous disregard and unkind words
To keep anyone from getting close enough to see or touch…. You


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
feelsodeceived
♀ Member
Member # 12351
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I am living with the most "emotionally unavailable" man on this planet.

I am 15 months from D day and have realized that I don't know if my emotional needs have ever been met.

I am a highly emotional person, wear my emotions on my sleeve.

FWS says the words but they have no meaning to me what so ever. MC and IC say that is just how he is and that I have to take what he says at face value.

Before the A, I could. But now I need to feel it. I need to feel the regret, remorse, and feel that he truly believes he could never do something this awful again.

Getting him to open up is a nightmare.

I keep telling him I need to feel something from him. He says he is trying but has nothing more left to give.

Like I haven't been through enough.


It takes a long time, but life does go on

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Oct 2006
hellonearth
♀ Member
Member # 11919
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

feelsodeceived--I know exacty what you mean, I'm the same, I used to just take what little he gave me (usually I had to probe for his feelings anways) at face value, I believed them, now post A, when SO many were confirmed LIES, I refuse to just leap in again, he needs to change and be more proactive. Hell, if I'm going to put words of remorse in his freakin' mouth. It ain't happening and if he REALLY feels it, he's got to step up to the plate and take that next step of spitting them words out, and have actions consistent as well.

We had our MC appt last night and MC really truly believes that my WH has a VERY difficult time even identifying with his feelings, he has trouble definining what he's feeling when it's not a good feeling and then it very quickly just turns to anger (the easy emotion). He suggested I try to "help" my WH and I explained (like you Skye) that I had been doing that for 18 freakin years, he didn't appreciate it then,why the hell should I continue NOW? It also doesn't help that when I was "helping" him to communicate his feelings in the past, he lied right to my freakin face. No more, I'm feeling as you Skye, time for him to grow up and do it on his own, this is not my job. I never asked for any of this, and our M needs to be BETTER than pre-A for me to consider staying in this M. I have changed!!


BS-Me-39 FWH-Him-38
Together 23 yrs. 1 son 9 yrs old
Dday#1-Aug 06
TT until Nov 06
False R until Jan 08-too much anger/defensiveness, lack of consistent support from him
S- Jan 08-July 08
Aug 08-Fall 2011-rugsweeping
back in MC and IC trying

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Canada
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, January 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hellonearth, I think you need to be prepared to leave him at some point. As the MC said, this is who he is. How badly does he want to change? Not just to save his marriage but to be a better man?

I don't think my husband has seen his therapist in six weeks. If we were working on reconciliation, I would be furious. As it is, I'm just getting my ducks in a row to leave. I know it won't be for a while but it is nice to know there will be a light at the end of this tunnel.


Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
feelsodeceived
♀ Member
Member # 12351
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am angry today. I am damned tired of trying to pull feelings out of FWS. I walk around wondering what he is thinking, what he is feeling, what is in his head.

He doesn't laugh, he doesn't smile. Sometimes aI feel like I am living with a zombie.

Pre A I lived with it, didn't need the emotion. But post affair, hell no, I need it.

The 180 starts today. I am living for myself. I can't do this anymore.


It takes a long time, but life does go on

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Oct 2006
feelsodeceived
♀ Member
Member # 12351
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Obviously he must have emotions if he had to go out and have his sorry ass affair to feel good about himself. OW said he made her feel loved. He must have showed her some 'EMOTION' to make her feel that way.

Fuckhead.


It takes a long time, but life does go on

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Oct 2006
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Obviously he must have emotions if he had to go out and have his sorry ass affair to feel good about himself.

That is one thing I've been so angry at my husband about. He claims it was nothing. She was nothing. But it's a lie. There had to be something that made him feel good that he wasn't getting from me. Why won't he admit that? And why won't he go be with her?

He's been in therapy 8 years and can't answer that question. He is so retarded.

And all he wants is me back. Why would I want to be his wife?


Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
feelsodeceived
♀ Member
Member # 12351
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skye, my husband says the same thing. She could have been anyone, it was how she made him feel, not the person. So glad that was worth throwing everything out the window for.

He told her he loved her, joked about marrying her, but says there was no plan. She says the same. She said she thought they had a future together. She was my best friend. I said at my expense?

What the hell is wrong with people. I just can't imagine how you live a double life like that.

My husband says the same thing. I am the one he wants, he has always wanted me, and is glad I stayed. He says he was begging for my attention.

So he goes out and has an affair. Yeah, that has solved alot.

OW still lives a few doors down. It is just a great way to live.

Asshole.


It takes a long time, but life does go on

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Oct 2006
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband can't even say he felt good while fucking someone else. But why would you do something that doesn't make you feel good if you don't have to. Sure we all have done things that don't feel good, but we don't have a choice, i.e., a sucky job! But an affair. Give me a break.

He was never there emotionally, but I believed he loved me and respected me and treated me so kindly. I was able to excuse his being emotionally challenged. Truthfully, I didn't need him emotionally. I can't say it wouldn't have bothered me if I did. But now I need to see a change in him. I need to see a different person. And he isn't showing me that. Too bad for him, it's such a big change he has to make.


Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
feelsodeceived
♀ Member
Member # 12351
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband does all the right things, tries to make things right, but I can't feel anything from him emotionally. I know he has remorse and regret, but I need to feel it. And I can't. I just can't settle on this one.


It takes a long time, but life does go on

Posts: 1360 | Registered: Oct 2006
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I remember telling someone, "I want my husband to want to commit suicide every day." I don't want him to commit suicide, but I want him to "feel" that way, and I need to see it. It ain't gonna happen.

Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry you are having to go through this.Ours is the opposite.I am the WS first here and believe his unemotional behavior lead me to feel bad about myself,leading me to seek attention from someone else.


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
hellonearth
♀ Member
Member # 11919
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skye:

"My husband can't even say he felt good while fucking someone else. But why would you do something that doesn't make you feel good if you don't have to. Sure we all have done things that don't feel good, but we don't have a choice, i.e., a sucky job! But an affair. Give me a break.
He was never there emotionally, but I believed he loved me and respected me and treated me so kindly. I was able to excuse his being emotionally challenged. Truthfully, I didn't need him emotionally. I can't say it wouldn't have bothered me if I did. But now I need to see a change in him. I need to see a different person. And he isn't showing me that. Too bad for him, it's such a big change he has to make."

Skye, same thing here, matter of fact, my WH says he never really "wanted" to get physical, the only time he stayed hard enough out of 3 times was when his buddy gave him viagra..oh yeah, and my consolation prize of him not being able to cum. LUCKY me! He also said it was how he felt, so I damn well know he has FEELINGS. I could have wrote all the stuff you wrote above as well. He says he believes he can change, that he wants to change etc. that's the hard part. Deep down, I believe people CAN change if they really want to for THEMSELVES. I've already told him not to change for ME, only for himself and he said that he's going to because he knows how much he hurts himself as well keeping feelings in. I only wish I could believe him......his lack of showing consistent remorse over 1.5 yrs obviously concerns me, as I've been asking for it since day 1. Only time will tell, I don't feel totally ready to quit completely at this point, something keeps me hanging on at this time, but I know I won't settle either nor wait angrily the rest of MY life.


BS-Me-39 FWH-Him-38
Together 23 yrs. 1 son 9 yrs old
Dday#1-Aug 06
TT until Nov 06
False R until Jan 08-too much anger/defensiveness, lack of consistent support from him
S- Jan 08-July 08
Aug 08-Fall 2011-rugsweeping
back in MC and IC trying

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Canada
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do know that he must not have "enjoyed" it the way we think lovers enjoy their affairs. The girl apologized to him after sex. Obviously, he didn't show her he had much fun!

He probably didn't enjoy the sex with her. But the fact is he kept seeing her. They, too, only had sex a couple of times. Why did he even spend time with her? What was he getting from her? He needs to find that out.

I don't know that people can change. I do know they can change their actions. His therapist should be telling him to "show" me feelings even if he doesn't feel them. That would show me a change. Is it dishonest to show a feeling you don't feel? I think it is dishonest to show a feeling of one thing when you're feeling another, but if you don't feel???? I don't think he can "learn" to feel.


Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chelle, did your boyfriend make you feel good about yourself? I think that is fine if you are honest about that and it's okay to need that. It is just sad that you didn't leave the emotionally unavailable man first.

We're all entitled to feel good about our relationships. Of course it would be better if you could feel good about yourself by yourself. None of us should depend upon others to make us happy.


Posts: 5589 | Registered: Jul 2002
hellonearth
♀ Member
Member # 11919
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree, they were definitely getting something from their A feelings wise. My WH knows that he was getting that ego stroke, he's never really had good self-esteem although you'd never have guessed it by seeing him, always appeared confident etc. He says he knows that it was that feeling of being loved, attractive, appreciated etc. something he doesn't feel he was getting from me cuz, well you know, after 17 yrs or so, I wasn't telling him how HOT he was 5 times a day. And, geesh, we were trying to conceive our 2nd child and his distorted view was that I JUST WANTED TO HAVE A BABY, didn't want HIM or HIS baby. He knows very different right now, he also sees how he never shared his true feelings about the steps we were starting to take in having a 2nd child (seeking infertility help), he told me he was totally fine with what the drs were wanting us to do, THIS after I had to ASK him how he felt about it, this (a lie) after I told him how stressed out I was, and how I needed his input since I didn't want to make such decisions on my own. Yep, I got a lie, apparently to appease me....and then he continued fucking someone else while trying to impregnate his wife. I DON'T get it. Damn double lives, makes no sense whatsover to me.

ETA: My WH has also had major trust issues his entire life, has never really, truley given himself to anyone (true feelings), his dad cheated on his mom when he was 6 yrs old and the A was hugely carpet swept. When I look at his FOO, I can understand where the fear of trusting started and to this day, this family does NOT show much in the way of feeling or any open communication. I get it, but I also know that he's a 33 yr old grown man NOW, he can make his OWN decisions, he doesn't live in that house anymore, and hell if I want my HOME and example for MY son to mirror that mess (IMHO).

[This message edited by hellonearth at 10:15 AM, January 23rd (Wednesday)]


BS-Me-39 FWH-Him-38
Together 23 yrs. 1 son 9 yrs old
Dday#1-Aug 06
TT until Nov 06
False R until Jan 08-too much anger/defensiveness, lack of consistent support from him
S- Jan 08-July 08
Aug 08-Fall 2011-rugsweeping
back in MC and IC trying

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Canada
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