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I Can Relate Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Reconciling with the "Emotionally Unavailable"
WillRecoverWTime
♀ Member
Member # 15673
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I guess I am joining your 'club'. I can't believe that I have lived with a P/A man for almost 19 years and never knew that this applied to him and some of his crazy behavior! I thought I was loosing my mind and now I know why!

I do have a few questions if any one can help. Somewhere, someone mentioned that flirting was a characteristic of PA. I have a huge problem with my H flirting. If I call him out on it he puts it back on me and says I'm jealous. He obviously has 'boundry issues'. Here's an example: We were at a local bar (owned by H's brother) a few weeks ago and my H was drinking, I wasn't. Usually it is the other way around! Anyway, my H was sitting at a table with 4-5 other guys. The waitress (that we know but only from there) goes to their table and I look over to see my H with his arm around her. Not her shoulder but her waist. I was uncomfortable but didn't say anything. A little while later, an acquitance's girlfriend go to their table and my H does the same thing, arm around her waist. Now, I'm pissed! After his A, I have told him that I have a zero tolerance policy and when I say zero, I mean zero! Did I think her was going to run off and sleep with either of them? No. Was it uncomfortable for me to see? Yes. He could not understand why I was so mad. His defense was that we know them - what's the big deal? I said 'why is it that not one other guy at your table felt the need to put their arm around them - only you did?' He says 'I don't know'.
I felt like it was a direct attempt by him basically saying 'you're not going to tell me what to do, watch this'. One thing that I brought up to him was that there are safe and unsafe people that you can possibly flirt with. We don't know either of them well enough to know just how safe or unsafe they are. Also, he doesn't get that by his actions like that, he could cause someone to get the wrong message and thin kthat he is interested in him. They know he is married to me but we all know that there are LOTS of women out there that don't care if a man is married or not!

My H has always been a very friendly guy with men and women. I think that leads back to the PA person that wants everyone to like them.

What do you guys think? If you were in that situation, how would you have handled it?

My H seems pretty interested in all this PA stuff and recognizes alot of the traits in himself. I truly think he wants some of these things to change. He is actually starting to read some here on SI. That being said, please be truthful! If I need a 2x4, don't hold back. If you agree with me, then by all means send the 2x4 his way!

Thanks! I am leaving for a while so I won't get to post to any responses until later!


Me BS - 38
Him WS - 39
Married 17 years
2 kids 12 & 6
2 year EA-PA
Dday #1 9-22-06 EA revealed
Dday #2 12-30-06 PA w/ same ow revealed as well as continued contact

Recognizing your past will prevent you from destroying your future!


Posts: 461 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Indiana
WillRecoverWTime
♀ Member
Member # 15673
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did I kill the thread with my windy post or what!


Me BS - 38
Him WS - 39
Married 17 years
2 kids 12 & 6
2 year EA-PA
Dday #1 9-22-06 EA revealed
Dday #2 12-30-06 PA w/ same ow revealed as well as continued contact

Recognizing your past will prevent you from destroying your future!


Posts: 461 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Indiana
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi WillRecover. No 2X4s from me, especially since I'm a novice at all this P/A stuff myself.

My novice take on your story? I'm not sure the real question is whether you're entitled to feel this way about his flirting. The feeling is there, it exists. Maybe the question that needs answering is how to handle it the next time it happens. . . .?

Your H knew his behavior would upset you, which may be why he did it. That seems to be how the P/A keeps the control in the relationship. They can't come out and say what's really on their minds, so they maintain control, or perceived control, in roundabout ways like this.

What do you think would have happened if you'd ignored him? I guess what I'm wondering (for my own case, too) is--if we don't *allow* ourselves to be manipulated by the P/A behavior, it will stop.



Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
WillRecoverWTime
♀ Member
Member # 15673
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my question is 'does it take a rocket scientist to see that behavior like that is disrespectful or am I just that sensitive to it now because of the A?'

I think you are right in a sense about ignoring it BUT I have ignored so many of his bad behaviors that I sometimes feel like if I ignore it, it fuels his fire and he keeps it up. Like, he got his way or something. I am not up for ignoring anymore. I think my best approach will be to call him out on the spot in as nice a way as possible and tell him I don't appreciate it! I tend to be the angry/ like to fight kind of person with situations like this and I now know that that fuels his fire so I think I need to just catch him off gaurd and say how I feel CALMLY!

I was so pissed that night that if his brother hadn't stopped me in the hallway to ask what was wrong, he would have been finding his own ride home. I asked a friend of his to bring him home and my H said'fine, see ya!' That was one of those moments that I could have literally ripped his eye balls out in one swipe!

God, the more situations I think about with P/A behavior, I can't believe I haven't really ripped his eye balls out by now!


Me BS - 38
Him WS - 39
Married 17 years
2 kids 12 & 6
2 year EA-PA
Dday #1 9-22-06 EA revealed
Dday #2 12-30-06 PA w/ same ow revealed as well as continued contact

Recognizing your past will prevent you from destroying your future!


Posts: 461 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Indiana
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my question is 'does it take a rocket scientist to see that behavior like that is disrespectful or am I just that sensitive to it now because of the A?'

I think it would bother most wives to see their husbands with his arm around another woman's waist. With an A thrown into the mix, yes, I think it's most certainly disrespectful.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
fadedrainbow
♀ Member
Member # 9280
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, December 13th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Will, I think his behavior is inappropriate and disrespectful, and more so if he knows it bothers you. Can you sit him down and explain in a calm and gentle way how it makes you feel when he flirts and touches other women? He may or may not get it but at least you've tried. My P/A H does not resond well if I'm angry when pulling him up on something that hurts my feelings.Sometimes I sound like a broken record, hoping that some of what I say gets through.I used to ignore it and then it became a resentment. My list of resentments steming from P/A behavior is so long it would make your head spin. I am just learning about all this myself. Boy do I have a lot to learn! FR


me: FBW
D-Day May 2005
divorced December 2009


Posts: 131 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: UK
lostinsauce
♀ Member
Member # 15614
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What are your arguments w/ your EU spouse like? When wh and I argue, I feel like I'm fighting with a brick wall.


Me: BS
Him: FWH
D-day 5/07
Reconciled

Posts: 186 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Here
OneFlesh
♀ New Member
Member # 17060
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! I just read all the post
I belong here! WH is EU/PA
to the max. Today is his birthday, He out Where? He left couple minutes before I got home. I'm so feed up with all this crap. I have resources to track but today I not even bothering with it. When I look back on our 10year/6year marriage, and all the time, energy, effort towards HIM! Oh my God! at my expense. I can't even believe I have survived all this time without love and affection, on a if and or maybe. His job has made IC mandatory. Thanks be to God!
I am glad we all here together. WH still, lying, deny,blaming,"just Friends" all that. SO no R yet. But now that crisis has happen, Im watching and waiting. And because of this club and research I NOW no much better how to handle him.
((((all)))) Im a hugger I get so few.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: maryland
sunlil
♀ Member
Member # 6312
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, December 13th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What are your arguments w/ your EU spouse like? When wh and I argue, I feel like I'm fighting with a brick wall.

It is like fighting with a brick wall for me too. I talk to the wall for a while and then, at some point, the brick wall throws a brick straight at my head. (meaning my H spouts off something mean and hurtful)



Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. - Lucille Ball

Posts: 2518 | Registered: Jan 2005 | From: Central Nevada
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 5:01 AM, December 14th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We don't argue. This is SO not normal, I know. The first few years of our marriage, I just thought we got along really well. Now I know it's because he's so afraid of conflict that he'll agree with everything . . . then he does as he pleases and lies about it.

So I'd say yes, kinda like a brick wall. Or maybe a Nerf wall.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
ithastogive
♀ Member
Member # 16208
Default  Posted: 5:32 AM, December 14th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jitterbug,

I could have said the same thing! 17 years of "agreement" because he couldn't stand conflict. Now he claims "I" tried to control him all of these years!

There is a book called "Why Marriages Succeed and Fail" by John Gottman. He talks about that perfect, they get along so well and never fight relationship. He says that it is one of the highest incidences of failure relationship types out there.

I keep saying my STBXH and I would just shove things under the rug because he couldn't handle discussing them. So it was like that splinter always festering under ths skin that would eventually have to come out!


Me-WW/BW 34
Him--BH/WH 37
Heading for Divorce and know its the right thing to do.


Posts: 268 | Registered: Sep 2007
skatter
♀ Member
Member # 16354
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, December 15th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ithastogive said, "My therapist and I discussed this yesterday. I just wanted to throw out there that her perspective is that if these E/U people were forced to get in touch with their emotions, they would seriously feel like they are dying. She keeps referring to how when people finally change something painful in their lives they go into the "death layer" and feel like there are only two choices...dying or changing."

This is exactly right - for me at least.
I am pretty sure I was EU for YEARS! I am much better now than I used to be (years of therapy and effort) but I still tend toward those behaviors in times of stress.

I also wanted to say I think there is a huge difference between passive aggressive and emotionally unavailable. The PA folks are, of course, EU, but not necessarily vice versa. I for example am NOT passive aggressive (i don't think! and my husband says not).

I do feel that telling someone my thoughts and feelings would be like dying. To the extent that sometimes I don't know what my feelings even are.

For example - reacting to my dear ones when they are emotional - it scares the shit out of me. To see the people I love upset or angry or sad makes me feel like the world is ending and my first response is to DENY it and get annoyed at them.... it comes out like "get over it" because i feel like my world is falling apart and i just can't handle it. Maybe partly b/c i feel like i have to take care of everyone and sometimes it just overwhelms me. If i can't make my loved one happy I am a failure in every way and should not be alive - so i can't admit they're not happy.

Does that make sense? at all?

What has helped really is meditation and sitting with my 'bad' feelings. I am learning that they will not kill me.

So it's not necessarily the case that your EU spouse doesn't love you. They may love you so much that they feel out of control. And for me at least that's very very painful. It DOES feel like the world is ending. Sometimes I think I don't want to love my dear husband b/c "he will leave me one day and I'll die".

[This message edited by skatter at 6:22 PM, December 15th (Saturday)]


You keep filling up the gastank of the crazycar and driving it to looneyville.
And each time you get behind the wheel you think the drive is going to be different. -New Attitude
Owner of 100 mod-suck-up points!

Posts: 214 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: San Francisco
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, December 15th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What are your arguments w/ your EU spouse like? When wh and I argue, I feel like I'm fighting with a brick wall.

EXACTLY like that.

Here's an example. He doesn't see a real problem with keeping a secret e-mail account to communicate with his secret friend. I asked, "If I divorce you, and you re-marry, are you going to set up a secret e-mail account and keep in touch with me secretly behind your new wife's back? Are you going to complain about her to me?"

He all but put his nose up in the air and said of course he wouldn't do such a thing to his new wife!

I said, "But you'd do it to me, with ow1."

Somehow, every answer he gave was the complete double standard that he wouldn't do anything so despicable to his theoretical new wife, but he and ow1 had done absolutely nothing wrong in doing the exact same thing to me!

I could give a dozen examples, both general and specific just like this. He has a complete double set of standards, and no matter how obvious it is, he'll just talk right around it and insist on two totally opposite things at the same time!


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, December 15th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

* They're emotionally distant and extremely remote, except when courting.


* They're too busy, sick, tired or preoccupied with other things. Their energy, time and life-force are all taken with other priorities.


* They frequently work a lot , and don't have quality time to spend with you.


* They're not responsive. They ignore you and your requests, and they don't try hard to make a relationship work.


* They don't, won't or can't commit to a relationship.


* They may be extremely critical and judgmental, so you may have a hard time doing anything "right" in their eyes.


* They may flirt with other people, and may not value monogamy.


* They may watch TV or sports a lot, read, work-out, or otherwise be preoccupied with something or someone that routinely interferes with their ability to be with you.
* They may be addicted to some substance, such as alcohol, drugs or food, which renders them incapable of being present and truly available to another person.

* People already married or involved with someone else are
frequently emotionally unavailable, regardless of what they
profess.
* They do not place a value on acting with honesty, honor or
integrity in their relationships with others. They're full
of excuses as to why they can't be with you, do things with
you, or be available for you.

If it seems that you routinely love your partner more than he or
she loves you, that you express affection, care and commitment more
than you receive, presume that you are involved with an emotionally
unavailable partner.

Emotionally unavailable people may profess to love you and care
about you, and they may make wonderful promises about your future
together, but they don't follow through with believable behaviors
that make you feel wanted and secure around them.>

I hope no one minds me re-posting this list, for those who come in late to the thread (like me!)

This fits my husband to a T. Every last one.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a huge problem with my H flirting. If I call him out on it he puts it back on me and says I'm jealous. He obviously has 'boundry issues'

I hear the same things all the time.. that I'm paranoid and delusional (boy I love that... he told me that the first time I strongly suspected the A). Any way, my first IC tried to make me aware of my own instincts and to take the A out of his behaviors. It's really, really hard to do that. Would you have been that upset if he hadn't had the A? You don't trust him, you fear his having another A, that other women will pursue him.

I'll even bet he calls it "being friendly". Honestly my H can't see or refuses to accept that he sends "signals" of availability. I ask then, why did his OW, who barely knew him, initiate a sexual relationship the first time they were alone? Because he was flirting, opening the door. It's one of those hurdles.

I've been in your situation more times than I can count. It still happens. Ignoring it does not make it go away. Done that, been wonderfully tolerant and even joked about it in front of him when it happens. That seems to give him "permission" to continue it.

You can't set his boundaries, but you can set yours. "If you touch another woman in any manner other than... (like an air or cheek kiss greeting) then I will ___________." Tell him or don't, but tell yourself and follow through.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you want an EU or P/A moment....

H and I were home yesterday. I suggested sex in the morning. He said we have too much to get done right now, we have time for that later.... fast forward to 9 PM....

"I'm going to bed, you coming up?" I said "sure, I'll come up with you." He then says

"I dont' care if you do or not, I'm going up to SLEEP." (BTW, that means, he's not going to bed for sex)

This morning, I text him.... "So why didn't you take me up on my offer yesterday? I don't understand."

He calls me, we talk about how I texted him before he was awake (funny, joking) but the content is never addressed. So I text him back... "don't think you're getting away without answering me." And I put a smiley face on the text so he knows I'm not angry (at that point).

He calls and tells me he DID answer it yesterday... that we had a lot to do.

And here's the P/A... he says "You didn't come upstairs to bed with me when I went up."

OK. Now I lose it and tell him to face up to his blameshifting and his avoidance of the "issue".

He says he can't talk while he's driving.....

I may not survive this...


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Frogger
♀ Member
Member # 15442
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy--Welcome back--how was your "break" from SI? I missed you


Love isn't enough, you need respect and trust. -Jimi40

Posts: 2296 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Florida
WillRecoverWTime
♀ Member
Member # 15673
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn, I fell into his trap again! This is SOOOOOO frustrating. Last week I asked him to come to me when it was a good time for him because I needed to discuss a certain situation. I told him the topic and it was not A-related. Well, kind of, it was a night of a huge trigger for me but not about the OW. I intended on telling him the things he did that were positive and how I appreciated how he helped me through it. I know - he can't read my mind. I'm sure he was thinking that I was going to rip his ass!

Anyway, that was over a week ago and he has yet to bring it up. Typical PA behavior.

SO, he has been plowing snow all weekend. I never asked anything out of him. I took care of everything. Let him sleep during the day (and made sure the kids were quiet). Made him lunch when he would come back home to get a different truck. I was very considerate of him.
Yesterday, he got up around 11:00 and within an hour he was up and running. He told me what he was going to do (it shouldn't have taken more than an hour). I told him that was fine but that I had stuff to do too. 3 hours later, I called and he still wasn't done with his stuff. Well, he was at his buddies hanging out and drinking! Gee- thanks for considering my time. I was pissed

We could not discuss anything last night because his brother stopeed over. We always take the kids to dinner on Mondays to their favorite place. Well, last night we went somewhere else because his brother mentioned it. Again, I was pissed. Why not just say 'the kids like xxx so if you want to go with us then thats fine.' Nope, we go to the other place! He has always put other people before his family - again

He starts in on me in the car. I was just being quiet because I was very disappointed with his choice. Here he was gone all weekend, family night would have been great under those circumstances. He says 'do you want me to just turn around and go home?' I said sure but what about the kids? We don't fight in front of our kids so he knows that if he starts a heated conversation in front of them, that it won't go far. It's his way of showing his anger but not having to follow through! We did exchange a few words but then dropped it. He said 'we'll discuss it tomorrow.' So, when he gets up this morning, he acts like nothing ever happened. I wait a while to see if he brings anything up. How stupid of me - DUH- he doesn't bring anything up unless it is an inappropriate time like other people around, kids etc... So, he asks if it is ok if he goes to our BIL's house to help him with something. I said 'are we going to discuss last night or act like nothing happened?
He says 'sure, if we can hurry up and do it.' I said 'I am not going to hurry up and do it. If you are ready to leave, we'll talk later' He says, no we can do it now. I point out to him his PA behaviors and that I was also disappointed about him not coming to me about last weeks topic. He instantly get defensive and starts in with excuses and blame shifting. He said he forgot about last weeks discussion. I told him he forgot because it wasn't a priority.
We talked for awhile and everytime he made an excuse or blameshifted, I called him out on it.
We walked out into the kitchen and he hugged me. We talked a little more and that turned into a screaming match because I refused to take the garbage out. He got very at me because I said I do enough. He said what's wrong with our 10 year old doing. Well, nothing but he had friends over all day yesterday and I wasn't going to bother him with the garbage. He grabbed it and went to the garage screaming pissed. I went out into the garage and he said 'I am sick and tired of you trying to use all this psychology shit on me! I said, you just don't like to be called out and then I said just take the garbage out and leave!! So, that's exactly what he did.

I am so pissed at myself for falling into the trap. I have been telling myself to stay calm and discuss not yell. This is so frustrating. He pushes my buttons until I explode and I know that that is counter-productive. DAMN!!!

What am I missing here? How do you handle PA people without getting so fired up?

Sorry this is so long, I could just spit nails right now. I am more pissed at myself than I am at the shit he does/ has done!!!!!

Now I know why his A lasted so long with dimwit OW- he controlled everything about it. She lives 2 1/2 hours away so he would only go see her when it was good for him or he needed his fix without any real regards of her feelings. She was just stupid enough to let him do that to her!
He gets frustrated with me because he can't control me and I call him on his shit!
HHHHEEEELLLLPPPP!!!


Me BS - 38
Him WS - 39
Married 17 years
2 kids 12 & 6
2 year EA-PA
Dday #1 9-22-06 EA revealed
Dday #2 12-30-06 PA w/ same ow revealed as well as continued contact

Recognizing your past will prevent you from destroying your future!


Posts: 461 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Indiana
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he doesn't bring anything up unless it is an inappropriate time like other people around, kids etc

Will, it is a trap and it is frustrating when we fall into old patterns. I can maintain for a short period then I lose it. They know our buttons and push them to push us away.

I tell my IC I feel like I'm standing behind that button pushing out against him with all my might, but he's stronger sometimes and I cave. She says the key is to remove the button. OK....

Then he goes "looking" for it.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
WillRecoverWTime
♀ Member
Member # 15673
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy - it is a trap and I'm tired of falling in it! I wish I could just once act towards him like he does to me and see how he likes it!

Other than being as strong as possible to fight the urge to get angry, raise my voice or scream what the hell else can you do? If I ignore it, he just keeps it up!

Someone on this board mentioned that when they started calling their PA H out on things that it drove them crazy but started to get it after a while. Maybe that is where my H is. The crazy stage.

I told him today that I am trying to make a change in the dynamics of 'us'.

I have read so many times that loving actions get loving rewards. Well, my PA husband just takes advantage of my loving actions, not always but most of the time.

The frustration is going to kill me!!!!


Me BS - 38
Him WS - 39
Married 17 years
2 kids 12 & 6
2 year EA-PA
Dday #1 9-22-06 EA revealed
Dday #2 12-30-06 PA w/ same ow revealed as well as continued contact

Recognizing your past will prevent you from destroying your future!


Posts: 461 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: Indiana
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