Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Depressed4ever (43230)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Amen, sister!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
janedoe99
♀ Member
Member # 17083
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I won't be able to check in with this board until maybe tomorrow (Christmas party tonight) -- but I wanted to see if this is usual "NPD" behavior:

I saw my WH today (dropped off kids), and he was very affectionate, wanted to give me hugs, and acted as if he was really lonely. When I asked whether his parents may want kids for New Years Eve (I have potential plans to be out that night), WH said yes, that they could probably watch kids. Then he commented that he doesn't have any plans (in a really "woe is me" kind of way). Funny, he didn't say, "I'll take the kids, since I don't have plans" -- which makes me think OW will be stopping by ( )

My NPDWH doesn't yell or berate very much -- unless I bring up the subject of OW (and I've stopped doing that for my own benefit). Since we've been separated and virtually NC, he has been nice. He's dragging his feet a bit on the D, too (at least it seems that way to me -- I would have liked to have the paperwork completed yesterday!)

I read somewhere (in some NPD websites), that a nice NPD might mean trouble later (i.e. he's setting me up for something). Or is he really lonely (i.e. OW hasn't been able to steal away from her H), and he's just trying to get some attention?

Any thoughts? Thanks!


Me BW 36 Him WH/XH 32
DD - 4 y/o; DSS 11 y/o
M 4yrs/ Together 8
D-day#1/2 - Sept. 2007, Nov. 2007
Divorced 4/08

Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jane, by contrast to a lot of the N's here who drink/drug/stalk/suck up $ & don't pay bills (because they either don't have a pot to piss in, initially, or just wanna siphon off as much as they can, etc.) & are violent...well, I have a *nice* N also.

(I have even been questioned about him being an N...because he's SO NICE so some are dubious.)

What he does is Gaslight me because this is his mental thrill...yes, he's no doubt setting you up...have you signed joint taxes? I have...& he was so *nice* to me just so I would sign them.

IC also said...'just because he's not violent NOW, does not mean he won't/cannot *SNAP* later! Or...stalk you later'...etc.

They are snakes & freaks, the whole damn lot of them!

Moral of the story, Tribe:

Just NEVER TRUST an N.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jane - whenever my ex was or is nice to me I always suspect he is up to something. It just seems to be his way. I would be very careful in all of your dealings with an npd freak,

IDB - the consequences of dealing with an npd freak is that it makes you doubt everything about yourself. I split up with my ex a year ago and I cannot begin to describe the difference I feel about life now. It is like a black cloud has left my life. I now realise that he absolutely brainwashed me about everything. It is very difficult to find yourself again but it can be done.

Dream - my counsellor said the same type of thing. She said I always need to be careful because we never really know quite what he is capable of. She thinks he had stalker elements about him.

CJ - good to hear from you. You will be free soon. The new year will be your year my friend.

Lied - is your tree up yet?

Bob - it is great to see your progress. Whilst it may seem like you are in the thick of it now, the end is in sight. Keep breathing ...

Downy and Sad - your wisdom helps so many of us. I hope I can give as much back to you someday.

I am having a bit of a difficult few days that I put down to the christmas holidays - lots of grotty memories, worry about the kids not having a mom and dad at home etc etc. I am having a real issue about getting revenge on him. I have the power to send all of his debtors to his front door as punishment for all the hurt he has caused me. I don't know if I should just leave it or get some sort of revenge. Any advice?


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsa, yes. Because they are by nature naturally
*predatory*, this stalkarini element can be unleashed.

I just don't believe in being *nice* to an N.
Send those creditors right there!
Just be certain that he won't harm you as a result.
Fuck him for all the anguish he's caused you & your children over the yrs., but Sam Vaknin reiterates..."Fight fire with fire".

You have the house, now turn the tables on the XN freak!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe))) of Lightbulbs and Toasters, AKA; The Club of and From Hell, AKA; The N Survivors Club...
------
At the risk of being a DINK (dick) I'm going to refer us all back to N-101. I believe I'm hearing a lot of confusion on the thread these days. It seems as if the Ns have worked their (Black) Magic again. Some of us sound really confused and doubting ourselves again. Ahem, Ah, Ugh, sounds like they are getting to us again. Remember when this happened before? And before? And before? And? and? ...and ?...
This is part and parcel to the whole N-Experience (Not to be confused with the Jimi Hendrix Experience !!! LOL). It's the basis of the N-Script. Create doubt in the victim. The victim assumes the responsibility for the conflict. Bingo !!! They win again.
------
I'm going to repost a couple of things scattered in the threads for review.
------
Some quotes. Many repeated thruout the NPD threads:
-------------------------------------
The destructive path of an NPD person usually includes a lot of broken hearts, destroyed self-esteem, and a collective scratching of the head while saying: "WTF WAS THAT?"
-------------------------------------
egocentricity, deceit, shallow emotion, manipulativeness, selfishness, and lack of empathy, guilt or remorse
-------------------------------------
The reason why they married you

Because you are everything that they are not.
It really is as simple as that. Think about it.
-------------------------------------
The fact that you are thinking you could be NPD says that you're not. No true NPD would even entertain the thought that there might be something wrong with them.

The characteristics of an NPD spouse? Here's some:

1. Very loving
2. Very patient
3. Very forgiving
4. Very GENEROUS
5. Unbelievably TOLERANT
6. Most likely good looking
(No narcissist would be caught dead with an ugly spouse.)
-------------------------------------
People with personality disorders lack three basic qualities necessary to meaningful relationships: conscience, empathy and a sense of responsibility.
-------------------------------------
There is a vast difference between a mental illness and a personality disorder, even though they can look exactly the same on the outside. Someone who has anxiety can be angry and ruthless temporarily. Someone who is fundamentally angry and ruthless can have anxiety. We canít always tell the difference from behaviors.

People with personality disorders lack three basic qualities necessary to meaningful relationships: conscience, empathy and a sense of responsibility. Recently some professional therapists have stated that personality disorders can be successfully treated, but many professionals consider personality disorders an untreatable, intractable condition that permeates the entire person.
------
Thanks to DF for these in NPD I:
------
Here is the one I have been trying to get to since last night (dang thing wouldn't load). I like this one because it offers advice on how to deal with the components of NPD.
20 Traits of Malignant Narcissism

1. THE PATHOLOGICAL LIAR is skillfully deceptive and very convincing. Avoids accountability by diverting topics, dodging questions, and making up new lies, bluffs or threats when questioned. His memory is self serving as he denies past statements. Constant chaos and diverting from reality is their chosen environment.
Defense Strategy: Verify his words. Do not reveal anything about yourself - he'll use it against you. Head for the door when things don't add up. Don't ask him questions - you'll only be inviting more lies.

2. THE CONTRACT BREAKER agrees to anything then turns around and does the opposite. Marriage, Legal, Custody agreements, normal social/personal protocol are meaningless. This con artist will accuse you of being the contract breaker. Enjoys orchestrating legal action and playing the role of the 'poor me' victim.
Defense Strategy: Expect him to disregard any agreement. Have Plan B in place. Protect yourself financially and emotionally.

3. THE HIGH ROLLER Successfully plows and backstabs his way to the top. His family a disposable prop in his success facade. Is charismatic, eloquent and intelligent in his field, but often fakes abilities and credentials. Needs to have iron-fisted control, relying on his manipulation skills. Will ruthlessly support, exploit or target others in pursuit of his ever-changing agenda. Mercilessly abuses the power of his position. Uses treachery or terrorism to rule or govern. Potential problem or failure situations are delegated to others. A vindictive bully in the office with no social or personal conscience. Often suspicious and paranoid. Others may support him to further their own Mephistophelian objectives, but this wheeler-dealer leaves them holding the bag. Disappears quickly when consequences loom.
Defense Strategy: Keep your references and resume up to date. Don't get involved in anything illegal. Document thoroughly to protect yourself. Thwarting them may backlash with a cascade of retaliation. Be on the lookout and spot them running for office and vote them out. Educate yourself about corporate bullies

4. THE SEXUAL NARCISSIST is often hypersexual (male or female). Pornography, masturbation, incest are reported by his targets. Anything, anyone, young, old, male/female, are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for 'sado-maso' sexuality. Often easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation. However, another behaviour exists, the one who withholds sex or emotional support.
Defense Strategy: Expect this type to try to degrade you. Get away from him. Expect him to tell lies about your sexuality to evade exposure of his own.

5. THE BLAME-GAME NARCISSIST never accepts responsibility. Blames others for his failures and circumstances. A master at projection.
Defense Strategy: Learn about projection. Don't take the bait when he blames you. He made the mess let him clean it up.

6. THE VIOLENT NARCISSIST is a wife-Beater, Murderer, Serial Killer, Stalker, Terrorist. Has a 'chip-on-his-shoulder' attitude. He lashes out and destroys or uses others (particularly women and children) as scapegoats for his aggression or revenge. He has poor impulse control. Fearless and guiltless, he shows bad judgement. He anticipates betrayal, humiliation or punishment, imagines rejection and will reject first to 'get it over with'. He will harass and push to make you pay attention to him and get a reaction. He will try to make you look out of control. Can become dangerous and unpredictable. Has no remorse or regard for the rights of others.
Defense Strategy: Don't antagonize or tip your hand you're leaving. Ask for help from the police and shelters.

7. THE CONTROLLER/MANIPULATOR pits people against each other. Keeps his allies and targets separated. Is verbally skillful at twisting words and actions. Is charismatic and usually gets his way. Often undermines our support network and discourages us from seeing our family and friends. Money is often his objective. Other people's money is even better. He is ruthless, demanding and cruel. This control-freak bully wants you pregnant, isolated and financially dependent on him. Appears pitiful, confused and in need of help. We rush in to help him with our finances, assets, and talents. We may be used as his proxy interacting with others on his behalf as he sets us up to take the fall or enjoys the performance he is directing.
Defense Strategy: Know the 'nature of the beast'. Facing his failure and consequences will be his best lesson. Be suspicious of his motives, and avoid involvement. Don't bail him out.

8. THE SUBSTANCE ABUSER Alcohol, drugs, you name it, this N does it. We see his over-indulgence in food, exercise or sex and his need for instant gratification. Will want you to do likewise.
Defense Strategy: Don't sink to his level. Say No.

9. OUR "SOUL MATE" is cunning and knows who to select and who to avoid. He will come on strong, sweep us off our feet. He seems to have the same values, interests, goals, philosophies, tastes, habits. He admires our intellect, ambition, honesty and sincerity. He wants to marry us quickly. He fakes integrity, appears helpful, comforting, generous in his 'idealization' of us phase. It never lasts. Eventually Jekyll turns into Hyde. His discarded victims suffer emotional and financial devastation. He will very much enjoy the double-dipping attention he gets by cheating. We end the relationship and salvage what we can, or we are discarded quickly as he attaches to a "new perfect soul mate". He is an opportunistic parasite. Our "Knight in Shining Armor" has become our nightmare. Our healing is lengthy.
Defense Strategy: Seek therapy. Learn about this disorder. Know the red flags of their behaviour, and "If he seems too good to be true..." Hide the hurt you feel. Never let him see it. Be watchful for the internet predator.

10. THE QUIET NARCISSIST is socially withdrawn, often dirty, unkempt. Odd thinking is observed. Used as a disguise to appear pitiful to obtain whatever he can,

11. THE SADIST is now the fully-unmasked malignant narcissist. His objective is watching us dangle as he inflicts emotional, financial, physical and verbal cruelty. His enjoyment is all too obvious. He'll be back for more. His pleasure is in getting away with taking other people's assets. His target: women, children, the elderly, anyone vulnerabie.
Defense Strategy: Accept the Jekyll/Hyde reality. Make a "No Contact' rule. Avoid him altogether. End any avenue of vulnerability. Don't allow thoughts of his past 'good guy' image to lessen the reality of his disorder.

12. THE RAGER flies off the handle for little or no provocation. Has a severely disproportionate overreaction. Childish tantrums. His rage can be intimidating. He wants control, attention and compliance. In our hurt and confusion we struggle to make things right. Any reaction is his payoff. He seeks both good or bad attention. Even our fear, crying, yelling, screaming, name calling, hatred are his objectives. If he can get attention by cruelty he will do so.
Defense Strategy: Manage your responses. Be fully independent. Don't take the bait of his verbal abuse. Expect emotional hurt. Volence is possible.

13. THE BRAINWASHER is very charismatic. He is able to manipulate others to obtain status, control, compliance, money, attention. Often found in religion and politics. He masterfully targets the naive, vulnerable, uneducated or mentally weak.
Defense Strategy. Learn about brainwashing techniques. Listen to your gut instinct. Avoid them.

14. THE RISK-TAKING THRILL-SEEKER never learns from his past follies and bad judgment. Poor impulse control is a hallmark.
Defense Strategy: Don't get involved. Use your own good judgement. Say No.

15. THE PARANOID NARCISSIST is suspicious of everything usually for no reason. Terrified of exposure and may be dangerous if threatened. Suddenly ends relationships if he anticipates exposure or abandonment.
Defense Strategy: Give him no reason to be suspicious of you. Let some things slide. Protect yourself if you anticipate violence.

16. THE IMAGE MAKER will flaunt his 'toys', his children, his wife, his credentials and accomplishments. Admiration, attention, even glances from others, our envy or our fear are his objective. He is never satisfied. We see his arrogance and haughty strut as he demands center stage. He will alter his mask at will to appear pitiful, inept, solicitous, concerned, or haughty and superior. Appears the the perfect father, husband, friend - to those outside his home.
Defense Strategy: Ignore his childlike behaviours. Know his payoff is getting attention, deceiving or abusing others. Provide him with 'supply' to avert problems.

17. THE EMOTIONAL VACUUM is the cruellest blow of all. We learn his lack of empathy. He has deceived us by his cunning ability to mimic human emotions. We are left numbed by the realization. It is incomprehensible and painful. We now remember times we saw his cold vacant eyes and when he showed odd reactions. Those closest to him become objectified and expendable.
Defense Strategy: Face the reality. They can deceive trained professionals.

18. THE SAINTLY NARCISSIST proclaims high moral standing. Accuses others of immorality. "Hang 'em high" he says about the murderer on the 6:00 news. This hypocrite lies, cheats, schemes, corrupts, abuses, deceives, controls, manipulates and torments while portraying himself of high morals.
Defense Strategy: Learn the red flags of behaviour. Be suspicious of people claiming high morals. Can be spotted at a church near you.

19. THE CALLING-CARD NARCISSIST forewarns his targets. Early in the relationship he may 'slip up' revealing his nature saying "You need to protect yourself around me" or "Watch out, you never know what I'm up to." We laugh along with him and misinterpret his words. Years later, coping with the devastation left behind, his victims recall the chilling warning.
Defense Strategy: Know the red flags and be suspicious of the intentions of others.

20. THE PENITENT NARCISSIST says "I've behaved horribly, I'll change, I love you, I'll go for therapy." Appears to 'come clean' admitting past abuse and asking forgiveness. Claims we are at fault and need to change too. The sincerity of his words and actions appear convincing. We learn his words are verbal hooks. He knows our vulnerabilities and what buttons to push. We question our judgement about his disorder. We can disregard "Fool me once..." We hope for change and minimize past abuse. With a successful retargeting attempt, this N will enjoy his second reign of terror even more if we allow him back in our lives.
Defense Strategy: Expect this. Self-impose a "No Contact" rule. Focus on the reality of his disorder. Journal past abusive behavior to remind yourself. Join a support group

From: http://groups.msn.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER/20traitsofmalignantnarcissism.msnw

This is one of my favorite sites for info. There are many good articles there.
------
Here is the profile for Sociopath/NPD:

* Glibness and Superficial Charm

* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

* Incapacity for Love

* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

*Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world


(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)
------
This article was a good one.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder - Recognizing the Problem
Recognizing the fact that you have been living with a partner who is affected by NPD, is surely the first step of dealing with the issue.

However, before someone might be classified as being narcissistic, it is important to keep in mind that, like every psychological disorder, narcissistic personality disorder too comes in various degrees. Going to the extreme, we might argue that each of us has somewhere a narcissist in her/himself. It even could be said that a narcissistic tendency is important for survival. However, in the same context it must be emphasized that, while a narcissistic tendency is constructive, a fully elaborated or developed symptomatic of NPD is nothing but destructive.


Psychologically there are several criteria which have been applied to this personality disorder. These are:


The narcissist can not take perspective, hence situations are blown out of proportion
The narcissist has little or no empathy. This means that (s)he cannot identify with the feelings or thoughts of another person
The narcissist is preoccupied with her/his personal distress
The narcissist cannot accept authority and hence has little concern for morals
The narcissist feels easily inferior and will try to be seen as superior
The narcissist is narcissistic hypersensitive, and hence cannot accept any form of critique
The narcissist is an exhibitionist and needs sexual admiration
The narcissist is exploitative, vain and not self-sufficient

So the question is whether the man or the woman you are living with are so strongly affected by this disorder that you will have to seriously confront the issue or whether the condition is mild and maybe after some adaptations it is possible to agree on a harmonious life together. However, this page will focus on the first scenario where the disorder poses a serious threat to the relationship as well as to your existence.

There is much one can read about the symptoms of NPD and yet exactly this can be more than confusing, and you might find yourself going through a checklist of symptoms in order to arrive at some conclusion. However, the list above should give you some idea. Still, there is another element which is just as important and this quite possibly the most important item for you to look at:


Look at yourself and ask yourself how you feel and whether you are the person you once were and knew. If you live with a narcissist, you will develop a cluster of negative feelings centered around the emotion of fear and an image of inadequacy. This self image of being inadequate then will be due to a change in self perception. This is, it is a cognitive concept that you are not familiar with and which is in contrast to how you used to see yourself. Clearly, such a negative self image will have serious effects on the way you feel and behave. The dominant feeling is, as alluded to, fear. Fear of doing things wrong and fear of being punished. And thus, the way you behave too will become modified whereby you will watch your every move and where your actions become unnatural to yourself.

The issue is - in a sense - more complicated. Because, all of us have negative feelings and concepts about ourselves even if we never encountered a narcissist. So in this sense, what the narcissist does is to build on the already existing negative self images and enlarge them to a maximum. The situation is even worse because we are aware of short comings in ourselves. This is where the narcissist is most successful. The narcissist will endeavour to increase these short comings. I may give a personal example: once, I gave up smoking, the narcissist exercised so much pressure on me until I started again (I still smoke sometimes). The narcissist would really like to see you in the gutter.

However, if you see that you have substantially changed for the worse you can be sure that you are living with a narcissist, and a check list is not necessary any longer.


Still, there is a healing aspect to sharing what actions you suffered and what injustice and cruelty you have been exposed to, and hence sharing experiences and finding reassurance through others can be very important. This is the more the case as, while you are still living with the narcissist or are still in contact with the narcissist, the negative self image gets constantly reinforced.

If you feel that the self check and the characteristics of the narcissist as given above are not sufficient you might want to check your relationship for symptoms of the following kind as given by the check list below. Still, while you are comparing your own experiences with the check list provided here, it is important to remember that maybe only some of these symptoms apply to you or that symptoms which apply to you are not listed. The final criterion will always remain the way you feel about yourself and your self image. Here now a list of possible symptoms a narcissist might display:

Dis-allowance of contacts with friends and families
Extreme jealousy
Belittling
Verbal and physical violence
Punishments
Sudden withdrawal
Inability to admit wrong doings
Control over your time
Self-mutilation
Threats and intimations
Destruction of your things - physical and non-physical
Claiming to know your feelings and motivations
Accusations of infidelity and of behavior you yourself despise


Dr. Ludger Hofmann-Engl

from the site
http://www.chameleongroup.org.uk/npd/first_step.html
------

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
janedoe99
♀ Member
Member # 17083
Default  Posted: 12:56 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you DL, Ista, and BoB -- all of this is very helpful and eye-opening to me.


Me BW 36 Him WH/XH 32
DD - 4 y/o; DSS 11 y/o
M 4yrs/ Together 8
D-day#1/2 - Sept. 2007, Nov. 2007
Divorced 4/08

Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 2:09 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Bob - I did need a reminder...it is so easy to loose your persperctive sometimes. I have spent the last year re-building my life and sometimes I forget how far I have progressed. My counsellor thinks I am a bit impatient to have everything dealt with rather than giving things the time they need. I just want to eradicate him!

I am pondering about saying to the freak "remove your charge on my house otherwise I will send the debtors to your door". This needs a lot of thought and mental preperation before I am ready to take him on. I've got seven years before the creditors are likely to back off him. No rush...

Have a good day folks!


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 2:13 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Itsa)))
Please, talk to your attorney (I forgot what they call them in the UK) before you do anything. NC. OK? He's just going to f**ck with you and turn you into the problem. Let the lawyer thump him.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Huge hugs, Jane.

BoB, thnx for the NPD *refresher*, too. Yes, 'saintly,
penitent, soulmate...internet predator' This STILL blows me away!

itsa~ can this be donee anonymously? 7 years...is a LOT of time to play with & bask in.
Just the very idea gives me a *nice warm glow*
Nothing more I love to witness than an N flailing about like some creepy bug going down in the bath water in light of all they've done...its called KARMA.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh My God!! I cannot believe what he did yesterday!!!

After I was worried about being too harsh and hurting his feelings saying I hope he wasn't getting a kitten for me without me, I apologized yesterday morning, to give him the benefit of the doubt and be a decent person. For MY sake too. I started crying because I was so sad. The whole situation just showed that even Christmas gets screwed up with him involved. I felt bad for him, I felt bad for me, I felt bad for the little kitten that was going to be adopted and then got put back in a cage.

Anyway, this past Thursday and Friday he told me he didn't have any money in his account and could I give him a couple of hundred dollars so he could buy Christmas presents for me and the kids. I told him I didn't really want to exchange presents with him this year. He said "Please let me have the happiness of getting presents for you and the kids. I don't want one for myself, but you deserve one. I have screwed up so badly I at least want to do something nice for everyone"

Now, we have NO extra money this year for Christmas, mainly because he keeps telling me at the last minute that he needs money out of the family account to cover expenses he owes at work. He tells me there is no choice because if he doesn't pay his work expenses he will be fired. Two months ago, he also sprang on me that he had to pay off what he owed his drug dealer (for pot). He took $2,000 to pay off his dealer!!! $2,000 out of one paycheck!! The next month was check cashing places he owed. This month was "surprise, I need $2,100 out of my check to pay a bonus to my assistant. It's already been agreed on by me and my partner"

So, the mortgage, telephone and car payments are, of course, late.

I had some money in a CD I've been saving to get ready to file for D because I am not working. I had to cash in a lot of the CD just to pay expenses and get some christmas presents.

I told my IC on Friday about the situation and him wanting me to cash in a few more hundred dollars from the CD. She said don't give it to him, how do you know it won't be for pot? I said, well, because he's going to buy presents with it. I will see the presents. And I know that he does have legitimate expenses at work. But I never see a receipt for any of them.

So, since he makes all the money, he said it was unfair that I had all of it and he has to beg to do something nice for Christmas for everyone.

I gave him $300 that I had to cash out of the CD. I asked him, can you please take less? I need to try to buy food for Christmas dinner and I really would rather get the kids a couple more things that they asked for in their letters to Santa. He said, no, he really thought he ought to be able to buy the things for them too. He was in a hurry to get going yesterday morning after he got the money. He said he was going to shop a little before going to his AA meeting and then picking our son up at the airport. He gave me a hug because I was crying and he said "you see, even people with problems can still love eachother while they are working them out."

So, 45 minutes before he has to pick up our son, I call him several times. No answer. I decide to check the GPS on his car.

He never went shopping!!! He went to the park for an hour (probably smoking) and then went straight to his drug dealer's house!!!!!!

F*ck, f*ck, f*ck!!!!

He got home with my son from the airport and I couldn't hold it in. I told him I had GPS on his car and I knew where he went. He said he was depressed about the fight about the kitten yesterday and he went and bought $25 worth because I had made him depressed. I said fine, show me the rest of it. He said "I hid it" I said BS, you didn't have time. He said it's in the car. I said show it to me now. Then he said "it's all gone"!!!! I said to where? He said "I owed a debt"

He f*ing gave the money to his dealer!!! And now I have only a little cash left. He did buy presents after this confrontation. I said how the heck were you planning on buying presents if this was all a lie? He said that he wrote checks. So, he wrote checks that are not good, with no money in the bank until the end of the month. And he PLANNED on writing the checks for the presents the WHOLE TIME!!!

And the worst part in my mind is how he STRESSED how he REALLY wanted the money so that he could do something nice for ME and the kids TO MAKE IT UP TO ME that he's been such a jerk!!!

I am just devastated. I really can't believe that even he could be so low!! And I don't have a freaking job. I think I have to kick him out anyway, I am going to lose my sanity if I don't! I have to wait until at least the first week in January to at least get another of his paychecks.

My mom says I should wait until I get a job, but I am losing my mind taking shit like this!!!!

I just don't know what to do. Maybe it would be worth losing the house and all we have.


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
janedoe99
♀ Member
Member # 17083
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((IDB))))

My only comment towards your N:

Stay strong...


Me BW 36 Him WH/XH 32
DD - 4 y/o; DSS 11 y/o
M 4yrs/ Together 8
D-day#1/2 - Sept. 2007, Nov. 2007
Divorced 4/08

Posts: 156 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Florida
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((IDB)))

I'm so sorry that this doesn't stop for you. He's a mean, selfish bass-turd.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My counsellor thinks I am a bit impatient to have everything dealt with rather than giving things the time they need. I just want to eradicate him!

Itsa, I totally understand the desire to just "eradicate" your N and move on with your life. Please listen to your counselor, though. Back when I left Bizarro, there was much less knowledge of NPD. My IC then never brought it up. After about a year of daily tears and much guilt, stress, shame, etc. (because, you see, I was the one who left--forget that he made it impossible for me to stay and maintain any sense of self), I finally "got on with my life." I continued to have the occasional nightmare (mainly being sucked back into Bizarro World by kidnapping or just vile magic and being unable to find Mr. Longlost and let him know that I was trying to escape and get back to him), and Bizarro continued to "serve" as my internal critic, but I felt that I was, essentially, free of him. I was happy. I was with someone who treated me like an equal partner and who LIKED me and enjoyed my company! But this July and August, after almost 2 decades, I experienced what amounts to an emotional breakdown. Apparently out of the blue, all of the emotions that I felt when I first left came crashing down on me. To make matters worse, I suffered from realizations that I had denied or stifled back then--mainly the understanding that he wasn't just incapable of compassion or empathy for me, but that he was likely also a manipulative liar and a serial cheater. Even after all these years, that HURT! But it is what led me here, so it has turned out well.

I am healing now. I have come a long, long way, and I am soooo fortunate that I had the support, then and now, of a wonderful partner. But, I don't EVER want to go through that intense sorrow again. And I don't want any of your suffering to come back and torment you in this way after you have worked so hard to free yourself of this monster of yours. Please continue to fight for your REAL freedom and continued sanity. Do as I am doing. Even when I am intensely bored with examining the dynamics of that old relationship, even when I am sick to death of trying to remember what happened, what seemed to lead to what, etc., I keep sifting throught the ruins and discussing with my IC and my husband. My goal is to face it all down, own my part, discard the things that I don't own, and file away what I want or need to keep.

All, take it on NOW. Win NOW so that you will be prepared for any future battles. You WILL be haunted. Sooner or later, the seeds of doubt that the Ns ALWAYS plant will sprout. Taking care of business NOW will help you eradicate those pernicious little weeds later.

Longlost


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((IDB)))

I did not have children, so I know that it was easier for me, but I left with NOTHING, and took all the debts with me and signed away all my rights to community property, and it was TOTALLY worth it. The "everything" that you lose when you leave an N is amazingly little compared to what you gain--a LIFE, a SELF!!

Only you can make that call. But, when the time is right, when you feel that it is the right thing to do, GO! You will find a way to survive and to thrive. And losing that "everything" will remove an enormous burden from your shoulders. Freedom and joy are amazingly bouyant."

You will know what to do. That doesn't mean you won't sometimes make mistakes, but mistakes are normal and you're allowed to make them. Trust yourself--Not the N.

LL


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just to be clear--I don't recommend that anyone do as I did and leave with nothing. No way! Plan, work with lawyers, etc., and take the best care of yourself that you can.

Auntie Longlost


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Tribe)))
I just came back to write more but beloved Auntie LL beat me to the punch !!! LL you are wonderful and you ROCK !!!
I want to add to/reiterate what LL is saying.
We have been tremendously abused. We have been psychologically and emotionally devastated. It is what it is. If we continue to engage the N it is not going to stop. Ever. It is the nature of the beast.
I spent 15 + years owning my shit in my relationship with STBXPDW. I have found thru counseling and studying that I was not the problem STBXPDW made me out to be. Does that make me innocent of any problems in my marriage? Absoulutely not. It takes two to tango. But the inbalance in the marriage has come to light as being glaring. There was no balance. There can be no balance. I have found I was owning shit that was never mine to won. I spent 15+ years taking the blame, the hits, for things that weren't mind to take. Just like all of you. It's out of whack. It always is with an N. I have found, I was not the problem.
Listening to some of your stories I see my brother, oh so vividly. That poor kid has been a freaking holy terror. I have seen him turn on the charm and get so bent out of shape cause when he doesn't get received or what he wants. Others don't forget the reign of terror that he just displayed. But he does. I believe that's more of the entitlement script, the lack of empathy and responsibility. My brother can be so charming but the swath of destruction this kid delivers is fucking amazing. My whole life I was told, "Why can't you be nicer to your brother?", "Why can't you, you, you, do this or that concerning your brother?". That's called pathologizing the victim. Right? Remember that? We have all been thru it. Over and over.
It's always our fault, even in the eyes of others. Why? It's the N way, the effects of the N-Scape. This is why it's such a crazy making, impossible situation to deal with. You can never win. There is no truce. There is no compromise. There is no reaching an agreement. Ns are incapable of give and take. The N will always run roughshod over you and everybody and eveything they ever come in contact with. It is a NO WIN situation.
But please, please, please remember. It's not you. It's them. In every way shape and form, every interaction, every issue, evey everything in any way shape of form it's about them. It is what it is. You didn't break them. You cannot fix them. End of story.
They will forever play on your "goodness", your "virtues" and will always twist your strengths into weaknesses and use them against you. I, like all of you in your own situations, am in absoulute amazement, in retrospect, at how my STBXPDW and my mother (of all people) used and turned everything about me against me. In my career, amongst my peers friends and colleagues, my virtues were honors. For my STBXPDW and mother they were vices. Fucking amazing.
I've learned that there is but one answer, and I quote/paraphrase my counselor here, "Move on, Move on, move on".
I hope this helps.

BoB

ETA: It never fucking ends !!! LOL.
STBXPDMIL just called the kids and told them that the gifts she gives them at their mother's house stay at thier mother's house. Hmmmmmmm...
Everthing that I've read about the "Do's and Dont's" of divorce, all the Parental Alienation material have all stated that such comments are an absoulute NO-NO. Nothing like putting the kids into the middle of it, eh? Fucking Ns. They FUCKING SUCK !!! LOL.

ETA2: Mother in law was just here. Had a talk with her about ETA above and other matters. Very cordial, very nice. I hate to sound like a DINK (dick) but, "Whatever". Actions, especially in the longrun, speak louder than words. It's all so sad.

[This message edited by bobelina at 12:07 PM, December 23rd (Sunday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IDB

I read the post in general too. Like LL if I had been single I would have run. But I wasn't single. I had two other lives involved in all this. Please if you have truly made up your mind. If leaving your possible NPD spouse is truly what you want, you must take baby steps. A full confrontation will end up only that. You will never be sure how exactly a N will respond to such. It is like the ultimate critique when you decide to leave them. Sometimes it does not go well.

I started slowly. Get the job. Mention the possibility of separating. That maybe some space will help you calm down and become more reasonable (this is all Bullchit but keep pressing what is in it for HIM). Get him out on a mutual agreement. File papers. Make them only separation papers if you have to. Draw up an agreement as to his financial responsibility to the family. Kiss ass the entire way. Tell him how you know he will do right by you and the children. How you know he is a wonderful supporter and will continue to be. Once everything is signed and agreed upon, start no contact. Tell him it is your inability to deal with the pain.

Baby steps. Make a plan and keep it safe.

Many positive thoughts for you.


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((DF)))
That was an awesome post, and one hell of a template to becoming N-Eradictated. Beautiful post. Beautiful advice.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
ktshadow
♀ Member
Member # 10920
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, December 23rd (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My Ic gave me some worksheets to do about my anxiety and depression levels. I took a short nap earlier and had terrible dreams about him coming in by breaking the door lock, sitting in the house, etc. It was terrible. Since getting some distance, I have realized that which I mistook for excitement and butterflies in my stomach was actually a terrorizing anxiety. I realized that I had spoken to him this morning (he called to talk to our son). No emotional conversation, just basics, which I have gotten MUCH better at. I am so upset and angry about the damage that this relationship has done to me. I have to constantly remind myself that most people are not like him. It is so hard to own my pain anymore because I spent so much time questioning it and putting it away for his sake.
I want to share with you all that the effects of this kind of behavior over time are insidiuous, and horrible. I actually went insane. After the birth of my son, I had a postpartum psychosis. At that time, I can look back in retrospect and see that I suspected then an affair and lies and was made to believe that I was crazy. And then I was. I know that alot of my own insecurities were wrapped up into this process as well, and I have worked hard to integrate this experience into who I am, but he blamed me for it in the way only he could. I trusted this person in a way I have never trusted anyone and that is the essence of the relationship with these people. I have questioned whether or not I am sane since, except that under the most stressful of circumstances, I have been able to maintain my mental health since getting small bits of perspective over time about what I was willing to concede in this relationship. Sometimes I get so frustrated with the process of healing from this. It is a full time job.


Don't let only one person decide if you are loveable or not. Be around the ones who have already decided that you are.
I traded in my intuition for his analysis.

Posts: 152 | Registered: Jun 2006
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.