threnody and nocontrol: you know, I dream of doing stuff like that, of being silly, of enjoying things. Of not being afraid to say what's on my mind. To skip if I want to -- and even though I'm 36, I might want to! I look forward to things like that.
So I have a plan. It's not a quick one but it's a plan. Thanks for caring.
About getting the NPD to tell the truth about anything, forget it. Even with truth syrum or with a lie detector test. It won't work.
I have heard and read where the experts say that they are such accomplished pathological liars that they (NPD's) could actually pass a lie detector test. It is not clear if this is because they don't have the conscience interjection that "normal" people get telling them that it's wrong when they lie and is picked up by the machine, or if it's because they truely believe their lies. Which ever the case, they live to lie.
This is why it is always best to go complete NC with an NPD. You cannot reason with this personality type. They will lie, lie, and lie some more. They will agree to anything and then later stab you in the back and deny agreeing. The entire process with these people is maddening.
I have been processing the things my XNPDH said in my PO hearing. It was UNBELIEVABLE.
He said that he had not been driving by and sitting by my house. He said he had only driven by the one time and it was totally innocent. Then out of no-where, my SO just took off after him in an aggressive manner.He (XNPD was shocked by my SO's behavior)
How would we have known it was him if he had not done it several times before??
Then he said that I had continued to try and have him arreseted for a variety of bogus charges. This had actually gotten so out of hand that as he put it, "Our divorce judge had to warn Ms. Sadtoo with jail time if she continued to try and bring false charges. She has continues to do this through the County Attorney's office."
First of all, why would our divorce judge have anything to do with any criminal charges that were being brought against him? Second, how am I so powerful that I can just snap my fingers and order the County Attorneys office to file charges against him? TOTAL complete lies.
He goes on to say that I was trying to have him arrested. He goes on and on and on about me TRYING to have him arrested. His attorney is whispering to him, "You have to tell the judge that you WERE arrested. He has the information right in front of him." Finally he say, "Well, I was arrested, in front of my house, in front of all of my neighbors. It was so embarassing...."
By this time the judge has his face in his hands and the XNPD's attorney is trying to make his client shut up.
He goes on to make his claims that his boss' testimoney in a formor hearing was not correct, he wasn't lying, he just made a mistake. This is some conspiracy against him by these women. (me and OW#1) Oh, he also told the judge that I was mad becasue he had a one-night-stand with OW#1 while we were seperated. This act resulted in the birth of his daughter.
Who is he to tell the judge whose testimony is valid or truthful? One-night-stand while we were divorced??? WHAT? Does he think everyone is a complete idiot. Our divorce was filed in March of 2001. It was final in 2003. His daughter was born in 2000. Hello, she's 7 years old. Doesn't he think we can add? Or maybe we were seperated another time that I wasn't aware of?? And WHY would you even admit to such a thing. That poor little girl. Doesn't he stop to think that she may hear these horrible things that he says about how she came about?
He finished by indicating that I call him all the time and invite him over.
He was a rambling idiot.
My attorney and the County Attorney who is prosecuting him in the criminal case are best friends. They shared information. The C.A. told me that our divorce judge and the PO judge are BEST FRIENDS. They were in each other's weddings and everything. Can you imagine that conversation at dinner this weekend?? "Hey, your name came up in one of my hearings...."
[This message edited by sadtoo at 4:40 PM, November 8th (Thursday)]
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
How did it turn out today? Sounds like it was unbelievable.
[This message edited by veritas at 4:50 PM, November 8th (Thursday)]
Longlost...oh how I WISH I could just walk away..yesterday!! But I can't. We share household expenses, and if I just leave he will allow the house to be foreclosed and I will lose a sizeable chunk of equity. Of course he would still spend his money on HIMSELF first, and wouldn't give a DAMN about the house foreclosing. I just can't afford to pay both 1/2 the costs of the house AND set up another home. I'm hoping the house will sell by the Spring so that I can move on.
DD123....its not easy at all living in the same house with him. He's a very cold and calculating person, and makes CERTAIN that *I* am fully aware of my lack of value. CONSTANTLY. There have been times when I thought that I SHOULD be committed... and a LOT of times when I wished I had some Xanax.. I can't *be* nice to him ~ it makes him angry. I can't *be* mean to him, it also makes him angry. Basically, he wants me to cease "being"..
veritas... I'm so happy you think your N is here!! You mention walking out of rooms when he comes in ~ my WTFH has been doing that to ME for the last YEAR! Its been almost comical at times. If I'm in the kitchen, he will *not* come in an get something to eat. If I'm ANYWHERE 'upstairs', he basically hides in his office or lays on the couch. He wants virtually NO interaction with me. I've been subjected to his lashing out and "silent treatment" for OVER A YEAR!!
I can just imagine how funny it was to watch him look for the pot. What a "pot head" thing to do ~ lose the weed!!
I hope you can keep your sanity through your exit strategy time line!!
taybre....your ex sounds like a royal dick. I'd hope for as LITTLE contact as possible with his kids!!
NoControl...I haven't had the need to 'explain' why this marriage fell apart to ANYONE who knows both of us. He is so *blatantly* abusive to me that its been obvious to most people for a long time. I guess if nobody 'knew,' I'd probably just explain that he is a sociopath. 'Nuff said..
Oh, and my paid-listener STILL smacks in the head with the "abuser" term. She just will NOT let me excuse or explain *any* of his behavior without pointing out the abusive nature of it all. It starts to sink in when you disentangle your life from his...
sadtoo..you are very correct about the N's ability to lie, and to even BELIEVE their own lies. After all, there really IS no "self" inside of them, so everything is false, from start to finish. Of COURSE they believe their lies ~ they WANT them to be the truth!!
How the *hell* do you explain NPD and what it did/does to you personally for someone who is completely unfamiliar with it...in a way that they DON'T think that YOU'RE the one who's nuts!?!
Nope, it isn't worth the bother because they just think you are nuts or a vendictive spouse. It is best to let their insanity come to light because eventually it does.
Why are you trying to make sense of nonsense again. It will never make sense because he is insane. I am just trilled that he acted so insane in court. I am sure it makes you almost want to stand up and cheer.
Veritas and Its I hope that you both soon escape the nuthouse because I can tell you that it does damage to our emotions and wellbeing longterm the longer we have to live with it. The other issue is that their action can be damaging to us. Drug use etc can backfire on you and get you in trouble as well. (not to mention children seeing it)
I can tell you from seeing my kids now some of the behaviour does imact them in almost invisable ways and becomes part of who they are. Not things that really get totally undone down the road.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
I've listened to 3 phone messages from WH who sounded very unsettled/nervous/weird (but, psycho WAS trying to be *NICE*!).
It was the very same tone of voice as when the shrink repeatedly called him 'deceptive & dishonest' in my presence!
Afterwards, N was "exposed", kept protesting that he was
NOT a LIAR...he was ashen & physically ILL from having his mask ripped away!
Damn, its great to be home & see the furkids, but just hearing his voice has me feeling confused, shaky, & off balance!
He's up to *something* & I'm not PARANOID.
(I just KNOW the kind of lying bastard he IS!)
Totally agree with sadtoo that they are wholly incapable of telling The Truth, too!
I need...like a benadryl...or *something* to fucking calm down right now!
He did not turn up to court and the judge was annoyed as the whole point of this hearing was so that he got legal advice and everything was seen to be fair. In his absence the judge took one look at the papers and said "you are in charge of the minors and you can afford to pay the mortgage". He then signed the paperwork and that was it! Done! A whole year of stress over in fifteen minutes!
It was hideously stressful but the outcome is marvellous. He cannot get his hands on any money until 2023 and then it is one eigth of the property value. It could of been fifty per cent!! His parents can't get any money (they gave him the money for a deposit and harrassed me for their share of the equity). I thought "not my problem, you should of stopped lending him money a long time ago". They have nothing against me.
All of my exs debtors can't touch the money in the house as it now belongs to me!!
I am free!! Free from the chaos of his life. I am secure now financially. It feels wonderful and I am so happy.
As Thren said the world is like a flower beginning to open up. And I am going to blossom now!
After my stressful afternoon I went to a chinese herbalist ( I have a ridiculous allergy to conventional drugs including proxac) and he gave me a medical and lots of things to take. My point is that I wouldn't have cared enough about myself to even look into making changes about my health and well-being before. Now I will give anything a go because I deserve the best.
My life is on my terms and he is nothing to do with it anymore.
I couldn't have done it without my friends on this thread - the friends that are there in the middle of the night when I can't sleep. Tonight I can't sleep but it is because I am excited that I have survived and my life is just beginning. Obviously when I come down from cloud nine there will be many issues to deal with but for now I can see that I have the potential to live a wonderful life. Something that I have not seen for so many years. I have wonderful friends and family who have helped me through this and I have great friends on here. Thanks guys as I couldn't have done it without you lot!
A toast to me and the rest of my life! A toast to us all!
I'm so *Happy* for you after all the suffering he's put you 7 children through!
Longlost~ so well stated!
Short definition of an N:
Someone who is so ashamed of the core self that he/she creates alternate selves to win the approval of others. They are NOT in love with themselves. In fact, they are so certain that they cannot be loved, and are so desparate for approval that they are terrified of dropping the mask. They are able to keep up pretenses with everyone except their "loved one." For this reason, anyone that the N has reason to impress will never see the dark side--unless they somehow offend the N. The "loved one" gets to witness the N at his or her very worst, but, of course, because no one else sees the Mr. Hyde, the victim is often perceived as evil or psycho spouse. In fact, the victims often see themselves this way, which serves the N's purpose very well.
I'm going to get a bottle of champagne tomorrow and drink to you!
Beautiful report. Hopefully this brings some peace from his terror.
"Short definition of an N":
We rock. N's don't. LOL.
[This message edited by bobelina at 2:24 AM, November 9th (Friday)]
I don't give mine the silent treatment; I just try to stay as much away from him as possible, avoid any arguments and confrontations, and the best way to do that is to not be in the same room with him without having something to do. If I'm doing something, I'm not going to stop; but if I'm just thinking, I'll go think somewhere else. If I say something, what I say is stupid. If I don't say something, I'm boring with no opinion. Now, he would run like a rabbit when the phone rang, because, you know, all his phone calls are private. That's acceptable, to run and hide when the phone rings, and change your words and tone when anybody else comes by. Not acceptable to leave to avoid a confrontation with someone who told you that your voice makes him sick, that he doesn't care about your opinion, and that the next time you say something that he either forgot about/wants to take back/makes him look bad on your blog, the accident that happened last time might happen again -- and it will be less accidental. Why, yes, that makes me want to be all over him...
Just last night, he was very upset that I left my purse in the car (in the driveway), and he went on and on about identity theft. Okay. I get it. I'm a bonehead. But he didn't stop there. Our son was kind of sliding his feet on the tile floor, and he got mad at him, too. Because what could happen when he fell down? Well, dang, the boy is 5'5", 160 lbs -- if he falls, he can pick himself up. But he made him sit down, so we all just sat there together miserably.
dreamlife: what do you think he's up to this time? It sure sounds like you have rattled his cage.
itsa: YAY! That's what I'm talking about! *doing the happy dance*
[This message edited by veritas at 11:42 AM, November 9th (Friday)]
I can't come up with anything other than this:
It's a personality disorder. They are capable of pathalogical lying and a form of mental and emotional abuse that is extremely difficult to put into words. In extreme cases the abuse escallates to physical. It's much more involved than this, but this should give them a good idea.
That is usually all I say about it. I have found that unless friends (mutual) have experienced his rage personally, they won't get it no matter how I explain it. They have to have actually seen him all nice and acting wonderful one moment and then completely flip to loosing it and in a total complete rage the next for no apparent reason.
My family, they didn't get it either until they saw it and experienced it themselves by witnessing him act out or seeing him in court or in person LYING.
I have found that unless someone has actually really truely experience a narcissist, they won't get it. You simply cannot explain this type of thing without sounding like you have lost your mind.
It's just too much to wrap your brain around. Think back to before you met your N. Sure, you saw people like this on TV, but were they really REAL??
I certainly didn't think so. And if they did, they must resemble Charlie Manson and I would see him coming, right?
I have been on and off meds, in and out of IC and suffered other difficulties. Some of this I have credited to the fact that he has never completely gone away and still sits outside my house, but the majoity of it comes from how deep the scars really run.
I can honestly say that I never loved anyone more deeply, more completely, more unforgivingly, or more blindly. I never tried so hard in my life to make something work that was so completely IMPOSSIBLE. Even in face of disasterous circumstances, I still tried. It's like I had this unconditional love for him that I have never felt in my life. I gave him everything. I gave my heart, my soul, my money, my belongings. I gave everything that I felt it would take to make our marriage work.
And in return, he took it all and spit in my face. Then he laughed.
When I was laying on the ground suffering the most horrific pain a human being can possible stand, he and OW#2 laughed at me, and did everything they could to continue to cause me pain and humiliate me publically, legally, illegally, emotionally, finacially, violently. They attacked me, my home, my family, anyone who dared to support me.
It was horrible.
Then, here I am FIVE YEARS LATER and he's back in the courtroom lying his ass off about how I'm crazy, I'm making all of this up, he was never in front of my house, I want him, I invite him over, there's a conspiracy against him.....etc, etc, etc.....
It is amazing that I am sane.
Bring on the Thorazine.
STBX and I communicate by emails only... which is very frustrating sometimes.
I have saved all the email "exchanges" back and forth from me to my STBXH... usually we have 20-30 exchanges before I give in and say "enough already, we are not getting ANYWHERE".
Recently I sent a couple of exchanges to my close friends, his family and my family.
They make comments about the "exchange" saying "boy, he turns hot to cold really quickly" and "he never answered any of your questions" and "what a JERK".
Now they "get it"! They never give me the standard "why don't you just sit and talk it over with STBXH...." anymore!
"Women are like tea bags...you never know how strong they are until they are in hot water!!!"