As far as tomorrow, see the above post.
Your meeting your XNPD is much like my XNPDH meeting OW#1. He lied to her and told her he was not married. The lies progressed from there and before she found out about me, she was pregnant. I do not hold any ill will toward this woman. I know that she was lied to just as much as I was.
I wouldn't be surprised if your XNPD's XW feels as though you somehow did her a favor. That's how I feel about OW#1.
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
"Center your country in the Tao
and evil will have no power.
Not that it isn't there,
but you'll be able to step out of its way.
Give evil nothing to oppose
and it will disappear by itself."
My edits in bold:
"Center your country (yourself) in the Tao (NC)
and evil (NPD Freaks) will have no power.
Not that it isn't there,
but you'll be able to step out of its way.
Give evil (NPD Freaks) nothing to oppose (attention)
and it will disappear by itself."
[This message edited by bobelina at 11:24 PM, November 29th (Thursday)]
Itsa, I'm so relieved for you! Congratulations on this very big bit of freedom!
Veritas, I'm wishing someone would go all Lucretia Borgia on your N's ass. If I still had my poison ring with the laughing woman on the lid, I'd send it to you. I used to keep Excedrin in it because the stress of things kept giving me headaches.
Yeah, I'm a little weird.
threnody: too, too tempting! But with his blood pressure, he is likely to keel over any day now, anyway. I don't think I would need to use anything stronger than table salt.
sadtoo: I am so sorry that you did not get your day in court. I have been thinking about you and praying that things would go well, but I am glad that you feel some peace about this decision.
itsabattle: Halleluia! Yay! Hurray!
*hope to be you one day*
FYI, I am *trying* to upload some baby pics from photobucket (thanks CJ! ) but am getting an internal system error message...so it will be a bit longer. Sorry folks; I'm a technological retard, what can I say...
Sad- glad your legal stuff (sorta) worked out for now. Even more glad you're OK with all of it- and I really liked the part of making him pay for the lawyer anyway! *HIGH FIVE*
Bob- loved the tao message, as I enjoy all of your posts. YOu do the research and bring the good bits back here, and I really appreciate it! Rock on BoB
I hope everyone is doing well! I MEAN IT!
OH! ITS- CONGRATULATIONS on your home! May you live your best years ever in it!
Check it out.
Here's the latest entry:
Friday, November 30, 2007
A Common Tactic of Manipulators
Manipulators. We've all been taken in by them. All malignant narcissists are manipulators, though not all manipulators are narcissists. Either way, it is impossible to avoid them. It is possible to minimize our susceptibility to them.
The concept that has helped me the most in enabling me to recognize when someone is trying to force me into what they want from me is the reality that manipulators are aggressive, and most times they are able to hide their aggression. George K. Simon, Jr., Ph.D. of "In Sheep's Clothing" calls them "covert-aggressives". As I read his book I realized that my whole experience with my sister especially, but also my mother, was that of being up against a covertly-aggressive person. My sister is better at it than my mother is. Interestingly enough.
Simon makes a great case for opening our eyes to what is really happening in these interactions; that the character disordered individual, or simply aggressive person, is fighting to get their own way when they use certain tactics. And he points out that they are tactics. Not defensive reactions.
"...viewing someone who's in the act of aggressing as being defensive in any sense is a major set-up for victimization." pg. 95
He also describes the tactics of the covert-aggressive as being another form of lying.
One of the first things their tactics accomplish for them is to conceal the fact that they are fighting with you. They are refusing to allow you to have the opinion you have, the standards you have, the decision you've made. They are attempting to force your surrender to their way, their opinion, their standards (or lack thereof). But the first thing they must do is come at you in such a way that the first thing you'll think is that they are reacting defensively. They hide their aggressiveness under a cloak of pretense that they are simply acting out of defensiveness which, of course, means that you attacked them. So the next thing their tactics accomplish is putting you on the defensive. Now you are knocked off-balance and the covert-aggressive will likely start throwing so many different manipulative tactics at you at once that you end up falling for the ruse and capitulate.
Simon states that it is impossible to list all the tactics manipulators use, but he does make a short list of the most popular ones. He starts with "minimization". It is a 'oh my god' moment to see it spelled out. How many, many times have my mother or sister used this tactic on me and others?? It could not be counted.
Simon again contrasts the behavior of the neurotic with that of the character disordered as he explains this tactic:
"...the aggressor is attempting to assert that his behavior isn't really as harmful or irresponsible as someone else may be claiming. It's the aggressor's attempt to make a molehill out of a mountain...Neurotics frequently make mountains out of molehills, or 'catastrophize.' The disturbed character frequently trivializes the nature of his wrongdoing. Manipulators do this to make a person who might confront them feel they've been overly harsh in their criticism or unjust in their appraisal of a situation."
Then the money quote, in my opinion:
"Minimization is not primarily the way they make themselves feel better about what they did, it's primarily the way they try to manipulate my impression of them. They don't want me to see them as a person who behaves like a thug. Because they are most often comfortable with their aggressive personality style, they also want me to believe that there's nothing wrong with the kind of person they are." pg. 97
Can you see the lie that is the fabric of this type of manipulation? If you miss the lie, you can be convinced by the manipulator that you are the one aggressing against them. You are the one who is misapprehending the truth of what happened, the truth of what they are. You big meanie. Look at poor little defensive me trying to stand up against your mean and nasty aggression against me! I was only...fill in the blank...as they cut that mountain down to the size of a zit. You back down because suddenly they are the victim and you are hurting them. You fall for the wounded wing act. The one who was truly fighting for their own way is pretending that you are the one who picked the fight, who is being unfair, who needs to admit you are wrong!
I so loathe this sneaky way of lying to get ones way.
I had read this book some months before my last interaction with my sister. I had forgotten about the book, but some of the concepts I had learned were operational for me. My sister's aggression was immediately obvious to me. I did not allow her to minimize the mountain. I didn't believe the covert lie that by my having a certain opinion that I had put her on the defensive. I again highly recommend this little book. It can save your sanity when you're suddenly in a "fight" with a sneaky little lying f-ing manipulator.
(P.S. That description above so fits STXPDW. To a TEE !!! )
I'm away for a couple of days - keep safe everyone.
My, how LAUDABLE!
The *mask* is going back on once more & he's turned into "Mr Wonderful", again...the *saintly N*
BoB~ That "wounded wing act" so resonates with me!
Ted Bundy volunteered at a rape crisis hotline & was very well LIKED. He used various *ruses* including having his arm (WING??) bandaged up in a sling in order to lure his female victims to "HELP" him...even the cops LIKED him...he was such a *NICE* guy!
[This message edited by dreamlife at 10:42 AM, December 1st (Saturday)]
So, I'm confirming times with MIL so as to avoid the storm. STBXPDW picks up DD13 so that MIL can meet her at STBXPDW's house, and then go to the party 20 mins south of here, where ILs live, where the sleet will be hitting shortly, according to weather maps.
I'm expressing my concern with the weather. MIL keeps saying it will be alright. Maybe (I think). She says if it's to bad DD13 can stay overnight there. Ooopppssss...
"No, she will be coming home tonight" I say or "not going at all if the weather doesn't let up". I said this as I "rather her come home", at first, but MIL kept escalating it with the blame game, etc. I did what needed to be done to assert boundaries. MIL hangs up on me.
DD's do not want to stay overnight at IL's. They say that their uncles (2) that live with IL's (one lives apparently occassionally with STBXPDW and other friends and girl friends) have "issues". What are these issues? Hmmmmmm... How about:
Heroin, alcohol and perscription drug abuse, along with employment challenges, etc. Also there is the issue of MIL & FIL getting drunk nightly. I did not tell MIL of these concerns.
Funny that what I posted last nite on the board about manipulators and their abuses, my MIL was trying to using the same tactics on me today. Mountains into Molehills. Blameshifting. Victimization. ETC.
It never ends. LOL.
In holding pattern for next hour to see how weather progresses.
[This message edited by bobelina at 11:56 AM, December 1st (Saturday)]
Very glad you are establishing your bounderies.
I veteoed the Tea Party. My DD is sad. I'm sad for her. This is an annual thing for her. This sux. Not a fun decision to make.
Well, I just looked at the update for the weather. Between IL's and my house, mostly towards IL's, they are saying be prepared for iced roads, that may not melt to early tomorrow, be prepared for power outages of several days, stock up on medicines, etc.
I guess I'm just overreacting. LOL.
ETA: Would you believe, for Lame Spelling? Again.
[This message edited by bobelina at 1:54 AM, December 2nd (Sunday)]
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
NC: That was for cjonesjag, who absolutely looks like she could be one of the real housewives! She'd never seen the show.
(((hugs))) to all of you! I hope you had a fabulous weekend. If you didn't, you must have been watching the freak show at my house. First, he threw a tantrum over the garbage disposal not being fixed. Then he started raving about how he was not going to dry and put away the dishes I had started and he didn't know why he had a problem with finishing my dishes. Then he yelled because I rinsed a dish in the sink and I couldn't do that so long as the disposal wasn't fixed. Then he started rambling about how it wasn't me he was mad at, he was mad at himself for not fixing the disposal because he knew it was broken and he passed the hardware store every day and he could have picked up the parts every day but he didn't and at this point he was just ready to buy another garbage disposal, blah blah. So as soon as he left the kitchen, I reached into the disposal, felt around for something stuck in it, and pulled it out. Voila! all done.
Sunday was when he lied to me about stealing the transmitter from the kids' clock. It is supposed to transmit the temperature and the weather to the clock inside. Thanks to the VAR (I got good insights by watching him tell me lies when I knew the truth), I now can tell quite easily when he is lying, and he was lying when he said that not only did he not know where the transmitter was, he claims not to have known that it had one. Paranoid Pete probably thinks that big brother is going to transmit some subliminal messages through it.
And the crowning came Sunday evening. The walls need to be painted, there's a misshapen mound of weeds in the backyard, there's about 20 boxes of crap that he needs to go through and toss before we can even think about putting up a Christmas tree, he's fixing up a house for The Troll, he just about had a heart attack over the garbage disposal -- AND he came to me last night and asked me if I was ready to take the kitchen apart, redo the shelves, and retile the cabinets! Is this mofo nuts??? (Yes.)
[This message edited by veritas at 1:14 PM, December 3rd (Monday)]
My tribe, I think that only YOU can really understand how proud I am of myself today. On Thursday evening, I set out on my own to make a trip that I've been putting off. I've navigated through the heart of Bizarro World and actually driven past the little house that I lived in with Bizarro for 10 years. I spent 6 hours with the wonderful old man who practically adopted Bizarro and who has been very hurt that Bizarro has not contacted him for almost 20 years. I am ashamed that I put off contacting him for so long, assuming that he was Bizarro's friend and not mine. I was wrong. He was so happy to see me and grateful that I re-established the bond. He won't be in this world for many more years, but I told him that I will never abandon him again. I also tried to explain Bizarro's "affliction" without letting my own hard feelings get in the way. My friend seemed to understand. He even admitted that he had seen signs of this "affliction" all those years ago! He also admitted that he had suspected my unhappiness and its cause and had felt compassion for me. I told him that I had felt that compassion and that it had, indeed, helped. We held each other and laughed and cried and took a long walk by the river. It felt so wonderful to know that my reaching out really helped both of us to heal.
I also had a long talk via telephone with the wonderful, generous, and forgiving man who wanted to marry me all those long ages ago before Bizarro set his hooks. I will never fully understand how my life became so convoluted and how I made such a stupid WRONG choice. But I am so grateful to be able to call this man my friend now.
It was a difficult trip, and there's no need to tell about all of it, but the important things are the reconnections (and confirmations of reconnections) and the fact that I am FINALLY facing down the old demons. I WILL own my world. I WILL own my own feelings. Bizarro be damned!
My friends, I have lived through some very dark times, as have some of you. And I know that a good number of you are still working your way through the darkness. I want to tell you that the light is still there. The world is beautiful and is full of beautiful, loving people. Be strong and keep reaching for the light. Your journey may be long, but it is YOUR journey and if you own it, you will recover yourself along the way.
I love you,
[This message edited by NoControl at 11:45 AM, December 3rd (Monday)]