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User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These recent posts fit my ex to a tee! As for hating women - oh yes! He is on his third relationship - he has had two wives with two children in each marriage. I am convinced he is looking for his "mommy" and hates the fact that he will never find her. His mother was never there for him and he will punish womenkind because of it. He is one sick individual - as are they all!

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

itsa, did we M the same N??

Mine professed to be a *male feminist* (another reason the limerence took hold & lasted so long) when nothing could be further from the truth!

Not only was his mother not 'there' for my N, but she was a cruel, moody, & resentful bipolar-ish whack job & he is determined to make the women in his life pay for it starting off by calling his intelligent sister derogatory names, ad nauseum.

However, on the outside, he presents a *male feminist* FACE to the public.
Its only when the mask comes off...

On the other hand, his father was bullied by her according to his XW; FIL has always been loving & cordial to me.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

www.howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandra L Brown, M.A.

The OTHER Woman--Now He's HAPPY With Her!

Nothing cranks a woman up more than going thru a
drama-filled ending of her dysfunctional, pathological,
abusive, addicted and/or sick relationship ONLY to find
he rapidly moved on and now seems 'so happy.'
Women tend to conclude it must have been 'her'
and if he can be happy with someone else and not
her, well then....it was some shortcoming in her and
she needs to study up to figure out just what 'went wrong.'
Ladies, ladies ladies....by now you have been reading
enough of these newletters to be able to 'chant' the
ABC's of Pathology I have been teaching you---pathology
is:
The inability to:
*change and sustain a change
* grow to any emotional depth
and
* develop meaningful insight about one's own behavior and
how it effects others.
THE BEST PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS
PAST BEHAVIOR when it comes to a pathological. So
what you have to ask yourself is how were his previous
relationships? I don't mean what he TOLD you they
were (all her fault, she was a psycho, sleaze, or whacked)
but what REALLLLYYY happened in them. If you
developed a Relationship Time Line and wrote
out all his relationships from his teen years forward AND the
'quality' of them and why they ended, what would you
conclude? How successful IS this man in maintaining healthy
relationships? Yup...that's what I thought.
How was his relationship with you? No, I'm not talking about the
honeymoon cycle when both of you are living off of endorphins.
I'm talking about the guts of the thing....the meat and bones of it.
So, he has a history of his own 'Trail of Tears' -- a path littered
with the lives of wounded women and children? Your relationship
has left you as one more statistic of his pathological heart breaks.
Now, there's 'HER' --- appearing all happy, snuggly
and 'in love'! You see her as getting all the good parts of him
you always loved and NONE OF THE BAD parts! After all, the reason
you left him was all that BAD STUFF! Doesn't it make you want to
call her up and tell her what's just around the corner in the relationship?
Doesn't it make you want to curl up in a fetal position and cry that he has
'found happiness in the arms of another?' Doesn't it make you sick in the
pit of your stomach or consume you with intrusive and obsessive thoughts
about how wonderfully 'in love' he is? STOP THE DRAMA!
Repeat after me...."Pathology is the inability to change" "the best
predictor of HIS future behavior is his past behavior" -- so just
what does THAT mean? There are honeymoon phases of every
relationship. Lovers live on the high of the 'falling in love stage.' We
already know that pathologicals don't 'technically' fall in love but they
do hang around and experience some level of attachment. But YOU
experienced the whole endorphin falling in love sensation. Well, so is SHE.
How long did yours last? A few weeks, months or maybe a year or two of
ok-ness? What happened next? Oh yeah, you found out his lies or noticed his
inconsistency, or asked him to work, or caught him cheating....once you con-
fronted him then you got the narcissistic rage, then maybe the aloofness, or
maybe he even packed up and left.
Guess what's gonna happen AGAIN? There will be the honeymoon for her,
then she will notice his lies, inconsistency, ask him to work or catch him
cheating, then she'll eventually confront him (or live forever with the miserable-
ness of knowing what he's doing and not having the ovaries to confront him)
and then he'll rage, punish her, reject her, ignore her or leave.
~VIOLA~ she is now on his 'Stepford Wives List of Rejects'. She's one
more tear on his 'Trail of Tears.' You haven't seen behind their closed doors to
know what SHE's dealing with....he hasn't changed---he's hardwired so she's
going to be dealing with the same thing you did. It's just a matter of WHEN.
If I were a gambling girl, I'd put my money every stinking time on the
consistency of pathology and his inability to ever change in ANY
relationship--the previous one, yours, or the future ones. She's not getting
the best of ANYTHING. She's you. And in a short time, she'll be another
statistic. If pathology doesn't change, this relationship is wired for destruction.
There are NO happy endings in relationships with pathologicals.
There are no pumpkin drawn carriages, no sweet little house with three children...
scratch that record! Stop attributing normal characteristics to a profoundly abnormal
person.
Women spend all their precious emotional energy on obsessing about the quality
of his relationship with the next victim instead of working on themselves--using
that energy for their own healing. They live in a fantasy world where they are
deprived of this wonderful relationship and he is off living the life of a normal person.
This fantasy does not end with "And they lived happily ever after."
Remember the last two weeks newsletters when I wrote about
that positive memories stay up front and are easily accessed and bad memories
are put in the back and harder to access? This is the same thing...you put the posi-
tive fantasy thoughts of him being happy with someone up front and totally forget
how this horror flick is going to end. If you need a reminder, read all of the archived
newsletters here: www.howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com.
Take a deep breath and snap back to reality...she hasn't got anything you haven't
already gotten from him--MISERY. If she doesn't have it right now, she will have it
shortly. Once you really 'get it' about the permanence of pathology you'll under-
stand that his ability to be different in the relationship doesn't exist. If he was
capable, he would have done the changing with you. But he didn't--and he won't.
Whatever exists right now is that short honeymoon cycle until she realizes what he
is and ISN'T--and what he can NEVER be. Don't bother picking up the phone and
telling her what he is and isn't. Just worry about your own recovery....from this
moment on, it's all about you!


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BoB~ so true!
I pity the next person being conned by my N.
I really do.

Great article...keep 'em coming!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why? Tonight I found a letter that Bizarro wrote to me when he was 18 years old. Why does it break my heart? I did not break that boy. He damn near broke me. Why does it hurt so much after so many hears that I could not be whatever it was that he wanted/needed me to be? Why?

I love my life so much. I love my husband so much. I have so much capacity for joy. He is long ago and far away. And he left me YEARS before I left him. Why this pain? Why? I know that this is temporary. The pain will recede. But why on god's green earth do I continue to suffer this way? Please. 2X4 time. Three bloody beers at a hockey game does NOT explain this sorrow. I do NOT want to go through what I went through in August again. Please tell me that I am not insane and that all will be well.

Looonnnngggllllossssttt


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 12:09 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LL,
You're OK. Living thru *hell* does these confusing things to us. This too, will pass. Mindfulness.

BoB

ETA: For pisspoor spelling.

[This message edited by bobelina at 12:09 AM, November 18th (Sunday)]


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 2:21 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes I just cannot help but wonder - why does my WH want to stay with me so much?

He has ignored me and the kids, done drugs, gone to strip clubs and massage parlors - all this for years. And now he wants to fix things, to change. He doesn't want me to leave. Why??? Is he so afraid to be alone?

He says he truly loves me. Then why did he do all those things? Why did he continue to lie to my face about smoking pot even after dday? He left our MC session which was all about the importance of being truthful and drove straight to his dealer's house to smoke and get pot!

I told him today that he had NPD. I printed out the responses from SI to my post about how he had not kept his word on IC, getting a sponsor, etc.

He said he felt that he was crumbling, couldn't concentrate anymore because of all his medications. And he would leave if I want him to.

He looked so sad and broken. He is making mistakes at his job because he cannot concentrate. I think the meds he needs for his bipolar are ruining his concentration.

What is wrong with me? I felt so sad for him.

Am I pathological myself in some way for still being able to feel sad for him? Every time he looks so pathetic and lost my heart softens. This is so hard.

[This message edited by IDeserveBetter at 2:31 AM, November 18th (Sunday)]


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 5:00 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LL and IDB I think you are both having these feelings because you are good people. I don't think we can ever understand what these npd freaks are like or explain their actions because they are so far off the scale from what we are.
You are both suffering the hurt inflicted on you (in LL's case many years later)and you (as do we all) feel sympathetic towards these sick people. Do not feel bad about feeling this sympathy as it just shows that even though you have lived through hell you are still compassionate caring people.
I have been through the emotions you both talk about and there is an end to it. I think you have to accept that this is what they are and nothing you will do will change them. You just have to leave them emotionally.
My freedom came by thinking "I have to leave him to it to protect myself".
You both know what they are and you understand that they will never ever change. There comes a point when you have to accept this and leave it.
My relationship with my ex will be something I will never fully understand as it was based on madness. I have stopped trying to figure it out because I never will. I care about myself now and I know I would never make the same mistakes again. My counsellor said this is all we can ever expect to do.

I hope my words helped.


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BoB and Itsa, thank you for being there for me. Itsa, your words ALWAYS help. Always.

I am getting my feet back under me today. I am forever grateful for your support. Mr. LL is forever gentle and caring, but (THANK GOD!) he just doesn't understand this emotional coleslaw. Or why it has come back to bite me after all these years.

Thank you for being there. Although I'm so very sorry that your capacity to understand so deeply was born out of your own painful experiences, I am so grateful for your understanding and for your generosity of spirit.

Off to see some tigers now. Today WILL be a good day!

LL


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is weird, but in a way I am actually hoping I will catch him in a lie again.

Right now, he's being calm and trying to be nice. I shouldn't have listened to the MC and let him back in a couple of weeks ago. It was easier to look at separation and divorce when he was out and when he was being a jerk.

Why is it so hard for me to move on that I have to wait until he's being extremely abusive and sick???


Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Longlost,
I think that you are going through this because you didn't deal with it back then. You may have thought you did, but apparently you haven't.

It's so easy (and understandable) to want to be done and move on. I can see where one could do that and then put the baggage of this type of damage back on some emotional shelf somewhere.

This isn't something that will go away. Even with years of a happy new marriage and years of a happy new life.

This is the type of damage that you can't even discuss with friends and family. You can't call up your closest girlfriend and say, "Geesh, what a jerk" and know she's going to get it. She's not. Not unless she's been through something like this. The NPD vicitm is so isolated.

It's hard to even find a good therapist that has experience dealing with victims of this type of thing. There's lots out there that throw around the lable, but do they really understand the impact and the damage these people leave behind? Some, but I think very few.

One thing that has helped me was to write letters to him and to the other people in his family that hurt me. I pounded on this key board for weeks, pouring out my feelings. Then, I sealed the letters and burned them in my fireplace. It was very healing for me.

I hope it helps you too.

IDB,
(((Hugs)))
I'm going to try and be gentle here. You are looking to try and make him into something he's not. You want him to be different than what he is. The truth is in his actions, not in what he says. It's almost as if you are willing to sacrifice yourself in order to help him. This is not good, sweety.

You are a kind and caring person. You want to help him become better. The problem is, he doesn't see that there is anything wrong with him. Why isn't he stepping up to the plate and trying to make things better? Why are you doing all of the doing?

He has ignored me and the kids, done drugs, gone to strip clubs and massage parlors - all this for years.

And you stay. You keep trying to help him, you do nice things for him and he continues to do as he pleases with no real consequences. See?


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
bobelina
♂ Member
Member # 15312
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Friends)))),
Our benevolence towards them (NPD "Freaks" (Thanks for that term itsa)), are signs of our "goodness" and our lack of "pathalogy".
Your OK. These are sure signs that you arer not the problem. More evidence of your nature and goodness.
They have shown inappropriate behaviours time and time again. They manipulate us into believing they will change, then blamo, back to buisness as usual.
They are "pathalogical". They are disordered. They are not like us. Whatever label we use to describe them and their behavious, the bottom line is their behaviours. Their behaviours, not ours. Regardless of how many times they twist us and the issues into something or somewhere else the bottom line is still their behaviours. Nothing more and nothing less. Their behaviours are the definition of character and personality disordered, otherwise known as pathalogy. This is what seems to be what we must most keep in mind to heal and move on, their behaviours.

Hope this helps.

BoB


Mean People Suck (Especially Narcissists)

Posts: 1817 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Over the Hills and Far Away...
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bob brings up a good point.

This is one of the reasons why I hound on the NC. Once you seperate from you NPD, this is never more important. Why? Because their mouth is their most lethal weapon. Their lies are what have reeled us in time and time again.

By going NC, you gain clarity. You begin to see your NPD from a distance and you begin to judge him by his actions, not his words.

You get a much more accurate picture of who he really is, not who you hoped he would be.

He also loses control because you won't listen to his lying words.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 10:06 AM, November 18th (Sunday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

itsa, I soooo agree with Longlost about 'your words'...they have helped me far more than you will ever know!

Its been very "quiet" here & its heavenly. If my N were still living WITH me, I'd be just NUTS, again.

I really, really feel for everyone who still has to *share* air space with an N. =(

Now I can hopefully put up the tree I bought last year after Xmas & have a peaceful Xmas THIS holiday.

I will speak to my N only after I meet with my atty.

[This message edited by dreamlife at 11:54 AM, November 18th (Sunday)]


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Get that tree up Dream and all that it symbolises to you. I am putting up our decorations on the 1st of December. I so want to make this a good christmas for the kids as it is a year on Boxing Day when the kids found out he had gone. His wonderful timing will ensure my daughter associates christmas time with his departure. For this I hate him. I am really worried about how she will react to Christmas this year.
Obviously I will be going for the over-compensation approach as that seems to be my style!
It is when I think about the damage he has done to my kids that I feel real fury. How can I repair the damage he has caused them? I know the answer is that I can't but it makes me mad. It doesn't feel like a good enough answer.
Telling the kids on Boxing Day was the worst thing I had to do. He wanted me to keep making up lies about him being away working...as if they would fall for that one. He is one sick piece of work.

Sorry for the rant - I think it is because I am nervous about Christmas already. I just want the kids to be happy but I fear they will not. I am trying to do my cognitive behaviour approach but not getting very far with this one. Would anyone like to psycho-analyse this one for me???


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perhaps you could arrange for the brilliant psycho-analytical skills of ivehadit, itsa?


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsa,
I think the first everything after what you and your family have been through is always the most difficut. Each one after becomes better and better.

Maybe what you could is change some of your holiday traditions. Like if you had always put up decorations on December 1st, do it the day after Thanksgiving instead. Another idea is to think of something that HE never wanted to do, but you and the kids did. Do that. Try to make it fun and lively.

I'll bet it will be the best Christmas yet.

If yours is anything like mine, he usually managed to ruin every holiday with the exception of his birthday.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

itsa~ check out jmashmun. She offers titles of books in NPD M's involving children, & their feelings, which will probably be very helpful.

Now that you have the house & he is OUT of your life, I am certain it can only get better over time.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
cjonesjag
♀ Member
Member # 10617
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

itsa.....trust me...having the N *out* of the house is the best thing you can do for kids.

I've watched it FIRST HAND, and can *promise* you that there is a HUGE difference between the kids who grow up *with* an N parent, and the ones who do not (and live with the Non parent).

OMG...it is freaking *obvious*..the difference.

Having YOU as a parent will be the best thing for your kids for absolutely SURE. Just the fact that you're concerned for their well-being shows the biggest difference between an N and a Non-N parent.

The kids raised with and without them are EXTREMELY different. I wouldn't wish a 'narcissitic parent' on ANYONE.

((hugs)) they'll be FINE with *your* influence, caring, and unconditional love.


Me (BS):50
Him(WTFH):51 Married: 05/26/2002
DD#1: 09/2005 (EA) DD#2: 09/2006
Mini-DDays: Many. Mostly online
DIVORCED 10/20/10
It's not what you've got, it's what you give.
It ain't the life you choose, it's the life you live

Posts: 6400 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Michigan
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 7:01 AM, November 19th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone. Thanks for taking the time to give me all the thoughtful answers you have lately.

I have some more concerns/question.
Hope you don't mind.

As some of you know, I am thinking of separating, but I have concerns about it.

1. Major one is survival - finances. WH left the house last month for 10 days and spent money like crazy and gave me very little to pay bills.

I have no job. I have fibro (thanks to the stress of him according to several doctors), and my children are young, in grade school. My lawyers and IC advise to look for a part time job just in case he completely falls off the deep end. I have been looking, but there aren't many pt positions in my field. I may have to consider going out on my own and starting up my own business. That takes some time. I have no idea where to start.

I told him yesterday I wish he were in the military and had to be deployed for a couple of months. I just want the space without having to worry about everything in the world crashing down on me financially.

2. The second concern is the children. Is it selfish or ill advised for me to be thinking of separating during the holidays?

Should I wait until January? I wanted to S a week or so ago, but one child's birthday is right after Thanksgiving and we have planned to go away for a couple of days for their birthday. I can't cancel that. So now I wonder, with it being close to Christmas, would it be self centered of me to spring a S on them now?

3. The other thing is that WH is being in his "nice" phase. He says he is really trying. He is going to AA and taking his meds. But he still has not found a sponsor or IC. So he's half way trying. Yesterday he admitted that he did the two easier things but not the others.

When he is being decent, it is so much easier to go with the familiar and safe and just stay here. I don't know if that is because I've spent so many years being emotionally torn apart that now I am not as brave and strong as I used to be when I was younger.Makes it more difficult to decide.


In a way, I am hoping in a way to catch him lying again. I don't want to be falsely led into wasting more of my life.

Sorry for this being long. You are the only ones who understand this. What do you think?

[This message edited by IDeserveBetter at 7:04 AM, November 19th (Monday)]


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