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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: The N.P.D. Thread Part IV
NoControl
♀ Member
Member # 14961
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Dream))) Yes, I think youre NPD is a bit different animal from the complete shark I divorced He still seems to care what you think of him and is still trying to at least *appear* to be Mr. Niceguy. I think the reverse gaslight is wonderful for him- because he still doesn't realize that you could ever *do* such a thing as LIE to him because he is, after all, so AMAZING and so SUPERIOR in intelligence that you could *never* get that over on him even if you TRIED!


"I Became Insane With Long Intervals of Horrible Sanity" -E.A. Poe

Posts: 483 | Registered: Jun 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, its sorta along those lines, plus he does not want word going back to his daddy that he's a complete Dick & Psycho Fuckerrr...heavens, N might get cut out of the Trust!

With my N, its this:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
NoControl
♀ Member
Member # 14961
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OOOoooh! Tell Daddy! Tell Daddy!


"I Became Insane With Long Intervals of Horrible Sanity" -E.A. Poe

Posts: 483 | Registered: Jun 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oooooooh, I will!

But, his wife of 52 yrs. just had her first death anniv. & with the Holidays coming up, its a very RAW time for them.

Next Spring...I'm gonna sock it, HARD!


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
NoControl
♀ Member
Member # 14961
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

THAT'S what I'm talking about!
Tell Daddy *right* after the ink on your permanent support order dries!


"I Became Insane With Long Intervals of Horrible Sanity" -E.A. Poe

Posts: 483 | Registered: Jun 2007
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dream,
I understand that these type of tactics may work for you and your situation.

You must understand that given your everyday-run-of-the-mill NPD, these type of tactics could launch an average NPD into a rage that could prove extrememly dangerous.

I know that if I even attempted to play any type of mind game, reverse-gas-lighting, etc, I would find myself in a very dangerous situation very quickly. That dangerous situation then would escallate to out-of-control status in lightning speed. I'm talking life threatening situation. Playing any type of "mind game" with an unpredictable, mentally unstable person is just asking for trouble in my opinion.

I know that my NPD is worse if we're measuring, but I would rather error on the side of safety.

Also, I would add that these type of tactics only prolong the "connection" with the NPD. Isn't the objective to get away and have a normal life FREE from them?


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
NoControl
♀ Member
Member # 14961
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Where in the hell is everybody?


"I Became Insane With Long Intervals of Horrible Sanity" -E.A. Poe

Posts: 483 | Registered: Jun 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sad, I do what works for ME.
Just as you do the same.

A long time ago, I told my N about my rages, too.

I think he gets what Vaknin is saying about fighting fire with fire.

Had a good session w/ IC.

And, a "loving" Thanksgiving card from psycho...who no doubt has secretly pulled some stuff that I will learn about someday.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
IDeserveBetter
Member
Member # 16602
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone for the advice. Only problem is, I would NOT be able to move. I don't have good credit and I don't have a full time job, so I would not be able to get a mortgage on a new place. He knows that.

Posts: 754 | Registered: Oct 2007
ivehadit
♀ Member
Member # 5996
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DL --

Like sad, i have a stbxh that has been diagnosed as NPD by a clinical psychologist who performed a full battery of DSM IV tests. And like sad, i have years of unfortuate experience dealing with true npd rage.

i lurk here alot b/c discretion is necessary given his profile, and quite honestly your stbxh seems to have none of the requisite npd traits, all of which are cookie cutter consistent for those truly npd. why do you believe this is the correct label for your stbxh? was he diagnosed? if i recall correctly, you have also posted about him on other "i can relate" sites for those w/various different abnormalities, so i am curious how this all fits together, especially given your advice to others on this board regarding the proper way to handle an npd.

IMHO, based on my very personal and long standing knowledge of this disorder, your stbxh is definitely not npd. Moreover, before advising others regarding how to deal w/true npds, who are extemely dangerous, i would advise caution in the absence of time tested experience (such as sad's)or a professional degree. as sad points out, the only real feeling for an npd is rage, and they are dangerous if handled incorrectly, so please use extreme caution when advising others from an "expert" standpoint, as it is w/o exaggeration to say that lives could be at stake for those with a stbx who is truly npd. Tx.

IHI

[This message edited by ivehadit at 1:08 AM, November 15th (Thursday)]


BS - Me
Divorced from NPDWH - 6-11-11
Three great kids

Posts: 538 | Registered: Dec 2004 | From: New York
itsabattle
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Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 12:54 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whilst I have fed my npd freak lies to confuse him I would never feel comfortable with the raging back technique. His nasty temper tantrums were something I always wanted to avoid.
I think avoidance was my policy followd by emotional withdrawal. I deal with him now by having as little contact as possible and telling him lies. Even when he is unpleasant to the kids I still avoid the raging as it would in no ways be benefical to anyone - by this I mean me and the kids. I have even gone as far to say to my daughter that you have to flatter daddy's ego to get anything from him. The man is insane and I just try to find the least harmful way of dealing with him.
I do find that no contact with him is the best policy by far.
There is no doubt that my ex has elements of npd and my counsellor agrees with me. He is definitely in the cookie crew gang

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 4:16 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ivehadit~ I think itsa answered it perfectly...no, of course I would not "advise" anyone to be put in HARM'S WAY at all.
Including MYSELF.
If you have read Sam Vaknin, a self-avowed N, he speaks of the "fight fire with fire" technique as well.
Yes, I do post in other "I Can Relate..." threads which apply personally to my current sitch as it stands, & yes, he has had a battery of tests & been Dx.
But, its also a well known fact that many N's are never properly or are even incorrectly "diagnosed".
Hey, it is...what it is!
Just because my N did not have knock down & drag out RAGING @ me in the *short time* he lived with me -- must qualify this to say in that I allowed him to live WITH me -- does not mean he would NOT have been physically abusive.
So, as far as what you are implying...I don't *get it*...so clarify, please.

Honestly, your post has been hurtful & extremely confusing -- though this may not have been your intent...

Further, FYI, IC duly has a Ph'D & not just a layperson's 'personal interest' in NPD...& I never once claimed to be an 'expert'...those are YOUR words, not mine.

You know, I'm curious... as you admittedly rarely post & prefer to 'lurk' here instead:
What exactly resonated with you about my posting when none of this has been directed at the others here?
I find this extremely *interesting*, to say the least.
ETA: Especially when my words were completely taken out of context & numerous "assumptions" were deduced.

[This message edited by dreamlife at 6:28 AM, November 15th (Thursday)]


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

some of the people do have more than one disorder. My ex has a few none of the leaste being NPD, ADHD, Depression, Seizure disorder and who knows what else. When he rages it is truely scary. My neighbour once said that he was scared of my ex and my neighbour is a big man and could likely take my ex out with one swing. However my ex is sneaky and mean.

None of us are experts and in reality even those who have studied the disorder understand it well and know how to effectively deal with it. That is why it is so untreatable. There are core traits with the disorder but there are definite levels of it and these people are so adept at their cameleon lifestyle that unless you are unfortunate enough to live with them or spend alot fo time with them you could easily miss the subtle clues to their disorder.

As for raging back, I only got to that point after years of abuse and was on the verge of a nervous breakdown while he continued to abuse me and my children on a daily basis. I lashed out instinctively and put the children and I in great danger. It was soon after that he moved out. Had he not moved out I know someone would have been seriously hurt or dead. Thinking about that time makes me shiver because it was one fo the lowest points in my life.

They do alot of what they do for attention. Any attention. The best weapon is most often ignore. At times it can also provoke them but then, like Sadtoo has found out, you have to involve the police etc. I had to do the same thing and he came close to being arrested a number of times, had a protection order, threatened to kill me, threatened suicide etc. More than anything he feared being locked up. He knew that would limit his ability to hold a job and to stay with his new honey. That to him was a motivator and had it not been for that I imagine things might have been worse.

Most of these are also extremely intelligent and seem to have the ability to read people quickly and accurately so that they can manipulate them. It is only when they start doing around the bend mentally that they become seriously bizzare. The fog they live in can be so out of touch with reality that it is hard to know if it is their intelligence or the disorder that is making them so disconnected. The brain wiring is all messed up.

I think that this site is a means of offering support to the survivors. It doesn't make us experts by any means. I have studied the disorder in my university degree and it didn't give me all that much practical advice to actually dealing with my ex. I know that hearing the many ways that others have dealt with similar situations gives me options to try and see what will work and what won't. I personally use a mixture of techniques to keep him off balance. It works for my ex and might not work for someone else.

((((((everyone)))))))


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
Longlost
♀ Member
Member # 16177
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ivehadit, your response to DL seems to me to be a little harsh. Perhaps there is some history between you and DL that I'm not aware of? I've only been posting for a short time.

Please help me to understand what it is that you feel DL has done that makes you feel that you need to post this kind of personal reprimand.

I have benefitted so much from having a safe place to post, and I've greatly appreciated the gentle responses. I've just gotten bold enough to start offering advice to others. I think that I've had some valuable things to say, but I feel a bit hesitant now. To be honest, if you responded to any of my posts as you have to DL's, I would be hurt. I would still post, because I still believe that there might be some value for others in my observations, but it would be harder for me.

I think (hope) that your motivation is a good one--you wanted to remind everyone that all of the advice that is posted here isn't appropriate for everyone and that we all must use our own common sense when deciding what advice applies to each situation. Am I right about that? I think that it is excellent advice and that it bears repeating. Gently.

If there are ground rules that I've missed, I would appreciate assistance in understanding them. I mean well (and I think that DL does, too), and I want to be able to offer insights based on my own experience, but I want to avoid adding any unnecessary unpleasantness to my life.

I admit that I am a bit sensitive to what I perceive as undeserved criticism, having lived with it for almost 17 years. Even a 20-year "buffer zone" of peace and love with the right person doesn't eliminate the leftover pain of living with a person afflicted with NPD, so I hope that you will forgive me if I am reading too much into what you said.


Wisdom and pain are not mutually exclusive.
____________________________
Barn's burnt down--
Now I can see the moon.
--Mizuta Masahide

Posts: 288 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: West of Bizarro World
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 8:47 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is being dealt with.

Please continue to keep this thread on topic and used to offer support and advice


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192116 | Registered: May 2002
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone!

Things are basically calm. NC is good. Thought you all might appreciate this one though.

DD b-day came, and she asked for a snake. One of her friends recently got one, so now she wanted one too.

I said no.

So she asked Dad instead. Yes, Dad got her a snake- just a baby one. Not a problem I'm happy it is at his house and not mine.

BUT

Shortly after, He got himself a snake. A much larger one then hers.

I was telling my mom about how he couldn't let the child have a cool pet without getting in on it himself. She said what's he need another snake for (meaning besides OW)? I died laughing. Its the first time my mom has joked around about the subject.

And of course, the battle is already on. DD was upset because her snake would not eat the mouse and Dad said if it doesn't eat it soon he will feed it to his snake. Now she is freaked out that her snake won't eat it and will die.

I know the situation is minor compared, but this is a classic example of NPD at its best. The impulse to have what everyone else has; bigger and better, and then use it as a form of manipulation and torment. All the while covering it up in sugar with statements like "we can do this together", "now we both have one" implying sameness and equality where there is none, and how much "fun" there is to be had in "sharing" such a hobby.

Many positive thoughts for everyone today.


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

downfall: now that the boys are older, I am beginning to really hate Christmas. Last year for Christmas, he bought an MP3 player for our son. In October. And opened it up right then and there -- because it was in the same package as the one he bought for himself. So it was Christmas in October...

This year, he wants to buy his mother a singing picture frame that has an alarm clock on it. He wants to buy one for himself as well. Even though that will make the 3rd MP3 player and second digital picture frame. The other digital picture frame sits up on a shelf, turned off and definitely not used. Why? Because it's ugly. Like he couldn't see that when he bought it.

Courtesy of whatever tacky friend he decided to copy off of, we now have a big pile of weed-covered dirt in the backyard. He has done nothing with it, except mow it when the grass gets too high. He was supposed to make a little stage and put flowers and stuff all around, but it has typically fizzled, just like all of his other projects.

*anything you can do, i can do better... or just spend more money on it*

[This message edited by veritas at 10:18 AM, November 15th (Thursday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
NoControl
♀ Member
Member # 14961
Question  Posted: 11:11 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WARNING: THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIT LONG...

OK, NPD experts...I need some advice, and maybe just some calming. So I'm here once again asking for your 2 cents. Here's the deal...

As some of you know, WXH/NPD bastard left me at 7 months pregnant, and just after we'd maxed my credit cards and borrowed money from my parents to open what is now a *highly* lucrative business. My name was on all the debt, but not the business (which is a 1 man show anyway) so I got stuck with the bills and he got the income. I was also the primary on his truck, which he quit paying for in July. He has seen his DD 2 times- both times I initiated and took her TO him (and it is no short drive).

SO...once I learned from the lienholder that the truck payments had not been made, I began trying to get possession of it, and once the decree was final, he did give it to me. I started trying to sell it, but (although it was immaculate while we were together) he had wrecked it, run the miles thru the roof (probably driving to hell and back to see his whores)and trashed the interior. So it was now worth 15k less than what was owed on it. Add to this that I couldn't make the 869/mo payments with the new baby, etc and being on unpaid maternity leave. So I started getting calls from the lienholder that they were about to start garnishing my wages once I returned to work- at 25% of my total gross income. (On TOP of all the credit card debt and family money I'd borrowed and was struggling to pay back). I felt my only option was bankruptcy, so I found a good attorney and started making payments to them to get it going in time to beat the garnishment. The lienholder was calling at work a couple of times a day and harrassing me, and my lawyer told me to put them off until I could pay them off by telling them I didn't know where the vehicle was. I did that. It bought me a week until I could get the funds together to pay the lawyer off in time to beat the garnishment.

Fast forward to last night. Trail of Tears (or Dewy Dipshit, if you prefer ) texted me as he does every couple of weeks or so to ask how baby's doing and when he can see her. I answered him that the end of the month was best for me and she's fine. He texts "Can we meet somewhere?" and I answer "such as?" and then reconsidered and texted "on 2nd thought you can visit her at her house. She's been dragged around enuf". 2 SECONDS later I get "I'm thru with your games. Get ready for court". and I reply "k". Then I get "All the lies you told about me in court (he's referring to my affidavit to the divorce judge, where I had to explain WHY I was asking for divorce and WHY I felt I was owed spousal support) and lying to the creditors about not having the truck. All you do is lie. I wonder if your parents will lie for you in court too. We'll see".

Now I realize I shouldn't be nervous, as he was ordered $1014/mo child support and $500/mo spousal for 13 months, as of 9/27/07 when decree was signed...and I've received a grand total of $600 for both, and that the judge would likely reinforce this. However, I think he just may be angry enough at me for not giving him time and attention to actually start dragging my ass to court. Then he texts "expect a summons".

How should I deal with this? Do you think he'll actually do this? Or is he blowing smoke?

Please give me your input! Should I be nervous? Thanks everybody!


"I Became Insane With Long Intervals of Horrible Sanity" -E.A. Poe

Posts: 483 | Registered: Jun 2007
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Someone turn on a fan... it is so smokey in here I can't see NC.

Please hunny what he gonna take you to court for? Making him come to the house to see the child? Following your attorney's advice? Judge will laugh him out of the court room especially after hearing you have not received your court ordered payments.

Veritas

*anything you can do, i can do better... or just spend more money on it*

Amen!


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, November 15th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NC - he is talking out of his bottom as usual! Take no notice. Althought this is easier said than done. My ex used to say things and make threats all of the time. None of it came to anything as he knew the law was on my side. It is just an undermining technique. Rise above it NC!

My ex was always throwing money at things - usually other people's money. It made no difference to how he was perceived - he is a prat...and always will be!!


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
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