I agree. I never had the whore thing going on, because she never took any money for doing the tricking. OM got my wife's goods for free. Well, not really, because I sure paid a hefty price, and in the end, so did she...but whatever...
The part that gets me is knowing my wife had the morals of an alley cat. MY WIFE fucked someone besides me.
I respect her in every way except sexually. I don't DISrespect her in that regard either, but sometimes (and this may be TMI for some) a hand job is more than sufficient, thank you.
Except for brief instances, I still avert my eyes if she's naked or while we have sex. Especially during sex, because when I look, I imagine OM looking at what I'm looking at, and the next thing you know we're back to the afore-mentioned handjob. *shrug*
I don't expect the sex aspect to ever be what it was. But I can live with the way it is now.
[This message edited by Clint at 2:11 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]
The good news is that we're men. We're easy to please.
I've been struggling lately with simply not finding my wife very attractive, which is somewhat new territory for us. Yes, she's put on significant weight since the end of the A. Yes, she and her mom just decided to give one another *horrible* home perms.
But once upon a time, those things wouldn't have mattered so much to me. She'd have still turned me on. Now when I look at her (especially nekkid), I'm a bit repulsed, and I think it's just more affair damage. I don't evaluate her physically giving her the benefit of being "my cherished wife", but the same way I would any other woman...and the fact is that she just isn't aging well and isn't making an effort to take care of herself.
I don't remember if it was this thread or another one, but I mentioned recently that I've had to resort to checking out pr0n lately to get physically aroused when I know she's feeling feisty. And for God's sake, the lights have got to be off.
And this is all enormously sad for me, because prior to the whole A mess, I thought my wife was gorgeous. I mean, I couldn't keep my hands off of her. We were one of those couples that people always joked about because we were so physically affectionate.
Now I have to force myself to be that way (even non-sexually) in order to keep from hurting her feelings rather than because I actually *want* to.
She told me the other day that she realizes I only initiate sex with her when it reaches that level of physical need where I'd be just as happy sticking it in a hole in the wall. And I couldn't disagree. That's pretty much what it is.
And worse, I don't really even feel the loss. I can't even remember what it felt like to be so attracted to her that I *wanted* to have sex with her just for fun or as a display of affection. I don't remember what it felt like, and honestly, I don't have the desire to rekindle it.
As horrible as it sounds, I seem to believe that she isn't "worth" fixing this part of our relationship.
Last 3 years of my life have been spent avoiding sleep or having to deal with the demons when it is quiet.
Seriously, though, typically you hear that women have trouble getting interested in sex without intimacy first. If this whole infidelity business has taught me anything, it's that men are actually very similar in that regard. We can have sex without any intimate attachment, but most of us don't actually want that. We crave the intimacy just like our wives do, and once that emotional intimacy is gone, the idea of having sex with them just isn't as appealing.
ETA: My wife tells me that I should just regard her sex with the xOM(s) the same way I did the couple of dozen guys she slept with before we got married. She was very promiscuous when we were younger (and before we met), and honestly, that never really bothered me. In her mind, the xOM(s) fall into the same category.
I wish it was that easy. Or maybe I just wish I was as easy as she is.
[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:33 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]
Sex itself just is not appealing at all... aside from the thought of a revenge affair which I have covered in past topics....and that I think I would have to find another BW just so it wouldn't be just me using her but her using me too...
pretty sad justification if you ask me but difficult to not pursue none the less.
You'll get no 2x4 from me regarding the contemplation of a revenge A (with the usual caveats: of course, it's normal to feel that way; of course, it's probably a bad idea; etc.)
I used to think revenge A's were a completely bad idea, but I've been around here long enough to see that some WS's just never "get it" -- never understand the magnitude of what they've done until the shoe is on the other foot. They completely lack the ability to empathize with their BS or refuse to let go of their fantasy justifications in order to fully participate in the healing process. In those cases, I just advise the BS to find a *single* OP ('cuz really, you don't want to put another guy in this world of hurt), and to wait for at least a year -- not because I think you'll snap out of it, but because unless you blindside your WS in the same way that you were blindsided, the revenge A won't have the desired impact.
But to paraphrase Clint's very wise take on the whole revenge A concept, one of the things you have to accept is that even if you do blindside her, it won't ever be the same way that *you* were blindsided. The first cut is always the deepest, so no matter what you do, your wife will always carry this seed that she deserves it...and really, the *not* deserving it is one of the great sources of agony for a BS.
Note: my opinions are my own, and not supported by most members of SI.
[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:47 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]
My reasoning for using another BS would be so she could hurt her WS like i'm trying to hurt mine....
son of a bitch deserves it as much as my WW... i'm out of the whore phase though... wrong choice of words... adulterer... slut... so many other words that do describe her.
I realize that it's hard to tell anything with any certainty at 2.5 weeks, so I'm just asking for your sense at the moment.
Above all, know that it does get better. I actually used to hate the fact that I knew it *would* get better, because I felt like I had been so damaged that the very fact that I would "get better" or "get past it" almost seemed disrespectful to my pain. But the key to getting better is focusing on you, on your happiness, your hobbies, whatever you can find to distract you from the present pain and rage.
You're right though... I hate the thought of getting past stuff just because i'm so angry and hurt right now.
Early on, my wife would stress that she wasn't blaming me for her choices, but when she tried to explain her mindset ("I didn't think you cared about me anymore"; "You were so busy with work"; "I felt neglected"), it felt like an attack, like she was blaming me.
Then I realized that there were many times in the marriage where *I'd* felt that way, but I didn't blame her for it -- I accepted the circumstances as unfortunate but temporary, and realized we'd get through it, and I sure as hell didn't cheat on her because of how I was feeling.
It is 100% normal to be disappointed in your marriage or your partner sometimes. That has less to do with marriage than just with sharing your life with someone else. At the end of the day, her choices had nothing to do with your behaviors, even though IN HER MIND (and only in her mind at the time) your behaviors contributed to her giving herself permission to make the choices she made.
So if she's trying to explain her thought process leading up to and during the A, try to take it that way. If she crosses the line and seems to start blaming your perceived failures for her choices, then you should drop the hammer on her.
Respect for my fww.....Well actually as a person I may have actually gained a little net respect for her. I mean her actions of weakness and lack of morality during her short affair obviously equals a big negative in my view of her and what she is capable of.
But here is where I offer the flipside of that...my fww has faced and owned up to those actions and has stood by my side while I have made her feel like a worthless piece of shit and a slut. I mean after she joined this site and understood the danger of trickle truth, she told me she was "intimate" with him in his flippin office which is in the next building over from where I work. I never would have found this out on my own and she told me something that we both view as pretty damn low and disgusting. I don't think I would ever do the terrible things she did during the affair, but I also don't think I would have had the courage to tell that piece of betrayal.
Here's the net result for me. I now see my wife as a person capable of terrible acts and not neccesarily the angel I always pictured, but I also see a woman who is stronger than I ever imagined in dealing with the aftermath of those choices.
I'm still not always sure if our marriage can survive the betrayal...I think that may be an ego thing for me...but I do know that I view my wife as a strong person who has faced demons that I'm not even sure I would.
[This message edited by Tim3167 at 7:14 PM, August 14th (Thursday)]
[This message edited by andyd1950 at 12:10 PM, August 15th (Friday)]
Forgiving, that's easy.
Trusting again, that's hard.
"When you take things for granted, the things you are granted get taken away."~ RevRun.
Short story (scant on detail): My brother recently divorced his wife of 19 years who had her own affair about 4 years into the marriage, and then withheld sex for the last 10 of those years, (and never apologized for her affair until she realized he wasn't bluffing about the divorce). Unfortunately, he became a WS in the whole process. I think it was a belated revenge/departure A.
She richly deserved the divorce, but certainly not tainted with the infidelity.
One of the main reasons I never had an RA was because I didn't want to live with that sort of *ick* on my conscience, even had I confessed it. I detested infidelity prior to it happening to me, and I remember well how twisted I used to think affair folk were, especially if it was someone I knew.
You maintain your integrity for you...
I could have sworn it was in there last night. Any idea why it's in General now?
Never be afraid of the truth
I just read back through here and I loved the line... "morals of an alley cat"!
D-Day was yesterday. 3 PA, 2 OEA, 1 ONS. I only suspected the very last PA that ended in January. I have no clue what is going on. I don't even know if reading these posts is helpful, or making things worse.
M-18 years, with S-4 years old