That is what my wife did to me, she even tried to tell me that she was going to be sleeping on the couch when she moved in with him....yea, like she slept on the couch in that hotel room 2 hours away. I still love and enjoy my wife's company very much, but as to trusting her....not even sure wheer to begin....
[This message edited by wizver3 at 3:51 PM, October 3rd (Wednesday)]
Maybe it's because I don't live with them, so I can take their words at face value. One of the things I should mention is that it isn't like my FWW was giving her nieces *bad* advice. It was more that she had the gall to give them advice at all.
But again, I don't feel even an inkling of that about WS's that aren't mine, ya know? That feels like an irrationally applied principle to me -- which is one of the reasons that I hold out hope that it's one of those losses of respect that will fade in time.
After a lot of work we're to the point where I don't think she will cheat on me again. But I know I can't rely on her.
Some of you guys fear getting sick--I fear getting old.
We can hurl all the most painful insults to our WS but I heard from my IC (I'm a BS) that one good thing about a truly remorseful FWW is her ability to be able to provide the soundest advise to people who are in danger of succumbing to the same mistakes she did. She will be way more effective than an someone who has not learned the lesson the hard way. My IC told me to be objective about it.
Edit to clarify: She was also giving scads of marital advice to her girlfriends *during the affair* about how to be a good wife and keep their husbands happy. She was giving her great, hypocritical advice to friends who *knew* she was having an affair.
Her friends subsequently have told me that even they had their share of roll-eye moments with her.
Of course, for the sake of full disclosure, I should also add that my FWW is bipolar.
[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 7:46 PM, October 3rd (Wednesday)]
I urged the "no friends who are not friends of the marriage" posture but it fell on deaf ears. Hopefully your WW has positive and supportive friends. It can make a huge difference.
1. ToddC has some great insight. Ever heard the phrase, "You can tell a man's character by the company he keeps." It applies in spades to WS's. People who continually associate with immoral "friends" who don't value fidelity tend to become and/or remain unfaithful. Good friends keep you accountable to yourself and your marriage because they have your best interests at heart. Bad "friends" don't ever judge you because they don't want to be called to the carpet on their own behaviors either.
Part of earning respect is acting honorably and developing a support system that requires you behave honorably.
2. My wife will always be the wife who cheated on me. She may become more than that, and accrue the respect that comes with it, but she will always be that. What she becomes will never change what she did.
3. There's a big difference between feeling a lack of respect for my wife because of what she has done and what her actions have revealed about her character, and giving voice to that lack of respect.
Just because I don't respect my friend's skills as a parent doesn't mean that I tell him so. It just means that I don't seek out his input on parenting issues, know what I mean?
I don't need to badger my wife with my lack of respect for her. That doesn't help anybody get through this. I mean, if she's acting like an idiot, I can call her out on that behavior, but I don't need to constantly rub her nose in the fact that I might think she's an idiot.
HUM1021 -- I'm with you. I fear getting old. I'm here working on R. I am giving it everything I can muster up. But I am also realistic in that there is no guarantee that we will make it through this.
One of my biggest fears? Being in my mid thirties, divorced, 3 kids who I love very much, lots of baggage (jaded/hurt) and the inability to reproduce due to the Vasectomy my FWW and I agreed I should have because we didn't want more kids. Which in turn would potentially limit my options if I happen to run accross someone who might want to have a family of their own. Silly me was thinking as a couple when I had that done, not as an individual.
I don't know how or when the respect comes back. There are many things I agree with in here. I just wish I knew what to say to make it better for all of us.
Edited because I can't type.
[This message edited by Hurt&Crushed at 9:25 PM, October 3rd (Wednesday)]
Kids 7,7,3 all boys
Dday 1/07 & 3/07
The more I get to know some people, the more I like my dog.
Her older brother cheated on his second wife and my wife blasted him for it, her middle brother was carrying on with an old girlfriend behind his wife's back while my wife wass having her little trist and she made some big stink about it in front of her parents as if she was Mother Teresa,(do you see a pattern here with my wife and her brothers?) now if I would have known then what I know now I would have told her to shut the F up and look in the mirror. She even allienated a friend in the past giving her marriage advice on what she needed to do to be a good wife.... Yeah..my wife really knew what to do to be a good wife... Checking into the Local Motel with an employee 15x for some nooners is a good wife....
So when it comes to respecting my W's advice and opinions now, well lets say, as others did above, if it comes to things without moral implications I may listen, it will take a long time before I take any credence in anything other than minor matter, until some trust and respect is built back up.....
[This message edited by BadBack at 6:22 AM, October 4th (Thursday)]
Now I keep the answers as brief as possible. I tell them that she is fine and leave it at that. It saddens me when people ask how she is doing because in some ways I don't care how she is doing. During the A and after dday she disconnected from me totally. She legally changed her name back to her maiden name, removed all the pictures from the office and acted like I no longer exisited.
If I was killed during the A I am sure her biggest worry would be how to get the wake over as quickly as possible and getting me in the ground ASAP.
You only own one thing in your life, your reputation. Everything else is rented and returned after you die. My WW decided to trash her reputation for a pathological liar.
[This message edited by certman at 7:59 AM, October 4th (Thursday)]
"Did the feeling of being "so grossed out" and "she's-a-dirty-whore" ever fade?"...yes...but they still come back to kick you in the ass every once in a while....
"What is the timeline?".....I am 7 years out.
My patron saint is a-fighting with a ghost
He's always off somewhere when I need him most.
Before I found out the truth a few weeks ago who OM was, I actually helped her with figuring out a way to get rid of him ( I thought he was just a problem employee, not her ex-man-toy).
My FWW was always career driven and funny how when I asked her to tone it down to and spend some time with me when I was recovering it couldnt be done, but she could find the time to spend with him..she stole what little time she claimed to have available for me and gave it away to him... and my biggest loss of respect for her was lying to me over this past year and making up a false OM while this butthole was there the whole time. and me here, the fool, being duped all over again...even if the affair was over...the lies and deceit were still very much alive.she claimed NC, that he was gone, and the truth was he was still there every day during our first false R for over a year...Yeah, what respect I regained over the past year or so has been shot to shit....
ToddC... Thanks for the insights... that really put the lost innocense in a nutshell for me...hopefully, F-RWW 2.0 will work out for the better this time....
Certman...hang in there bud... Beleive me I feel your pain!
[This message edited by BadBack at 8:35 AM, October 4th (Thursday)]
I was always so proud of her. Sure, I knew some of the "drawbacks" that other people might see (her obesity, for example), but that didn't matter to me. I talked about how wonderful she was, how smart, what a great wife, how loving and loyal, how great she was at her job, etc. I, too, was her personal cheering section.
I was there when her first job here didn't pan out (stupid boss) and her second job also ended (evil boss), and then when her third job turned out to be the charm. I was there when her father died (they were very close), driving 1400 miles alone & non-stop from work to be with her. Of course I was there through the pain of infertility and then the dramatic ups & downs of adopting a newborn.
So then what happens? She gets her husband, she gets her house, she gets her baby, it's like she had a checklist. Then she got involved with OM. And nearly lost the whole thing over THAT.
Do I trust her ability to make good judgments? To form healthy friendships? To keep appropriate boundaries? To take good care of our children if she's in the throes of something else? The answer is a resounding NO.
D-Days were still pretty recent, I realize that. I hope for the day when I will regain my respect for her. She got a little bit back by going absolutely NC with both OP and especially by writing a letter to OMW confessing and apologizing and offering to answer any questions she might have. That probably earned my respect more than anything else she's done since D-Days. But still....
Now she's just my wife. I love her, but I'm not proud of her the way I used to be.
Like another guy said, "This is my wife, who has been there for me through everyt... well, ALMOST everything."
2 DSs, ages 7 and 5
Never be afraid of the truth
now, that being said, my FWW has earned a certain degree of it back by owning her shit, showing remorse, doing NC, and sticking around while the shit hit the fan.
that may not sound like a lot but reading on here has taught me that is something to be thankful for.
i will respect her more as time goes on and she continues it all... but yes, there is sort of an "innocence lost" as mentioned by others on here. The garden of eden has closed and the serpent is laughing.
all i can do is learn to laugh too and move on... to err is human. granted, that was a huge fuckup but I believe it can be measured by the progress and rebuilding that comes after that...
respect is just one piece of the puzzle of how I feel about FWW.
as for a timeline, I think actions being compiled is a better measure, time for personal measures varies so greatly from person to person, depending on their maturity levels, emotional strength, etc.
respect for me just comes one day at a time.
One of the first things I told my W after I decided not to leave was that she had to make me proud of that decision.
3 months from D-day and I feel very far from being proud. She has done anything his weak mind allows her but she has always been a very dependent person, she doesn't like to make decisions. That's how the OM got her, he always took the initiative, she only followed him without thinking what she was doing.
That is why I lost all respect I had for her. When I ask her details about the A, she always responds that the OM used to say what to do, when and where. She didn't worry about protection or being caught, she left all that stuff to the OM.
I still have to take a parental test, since I forced her to leave her job, we can't afford it yet. But I know that if when I take the test I discover that my little princess is not mine I will not only had lost any respect for her, I will hate her.