On the other hand, there are still too many odd incidents, the whole issue of him losing his job years ago due to oversleeping and many years after the fact telling me this story about how he thinks someone put a 'date rape' type drug in his drink (so how the heck did he get home?), and recently finding a receipt from a casino in our house, and no explanation as to how it got here (the CC #'s don't match any of his cards in his wallet), the 30 minute call on our cell phone that he still insists was from a complete stranger and the phone just failed to disconnect (apparently BOTH his and her phones failed to disconnect).
Then he told me a couple of lies on things I already knew the truth about, and I was reminded just how good a liar he is.
After spending many months thinking he probably had 'only' lt and multiple EA's (ONLY-- haha), I'm now back to wondering if there've also been pa's that I just haven't found proof of.
I've been given a clear message by counselor and WS that there will be no more details than what I posted in my profile. Its hard to live with that, but WH says each new question is a gut hit. He says, "I did what I did, I'm sorry, I'll never do it again. I didn't think you cared".
We are both at the bottom of a deep pit and trying to pull each other up. I cannot understand why he did what he did and I guess I never will. But no more questions.
Move on, move forward. Don't look back.
I didn't read everypost here, I wanted to start a new post but didn't realize I couldn't. Soooooo any gems of advice?
I need answers & if I dont get them my WH may end up my WXH.
First of all, I am so sorry for your pain. Actually seeing that DVD is something that I cannot imagine. With that said ....
I sorta ride the other side of the fence with the details issue. I CHOSE not to know/ask for every detail. I did ask for what I felt was important, IE: how many times, where, feelings involved, etc. I discovered around 60 emails but just skimmed them to get an idea of their relationship, was it serious ? Was it love ?? I then deleted them myself.
I did not want to know the color of her underwear or the sounds she made. That would NOT have helped me one bit .....I do not regret that piece , I have my sanity and I did not deal with as many mind movies ....
But, the but is....
My H was willing to share whatever I needed to know. I think that this is the crux of it. Why will your H not share ? It should be YOUR choice as to what you need to know, not his decision to make.
I certainly do not want to depress you but I think that you need to think about this aspect of it.....If more details would help heal you, why is he not willing to give you that ?
(( Valleywoman ))
Elected Voting Vixen
He did say it started innocently with her and him saying hi in halllway. Then she started coming into his office. Conversations got suggestive. I reminded him that would be a good time to put a halt to it and in hindsight he agreed.
I don't know how many times they did it. He will only admit to one, the one they taped. I found the cell phone, the one I was warned about. He claims it belonged to M**** who thanked him for finding it. He does transport a lot of staff and parolees in his vehicle. But I flat don't believe him about the phone being someone else's.
The bitch died of some agressive cancer three months after their encounter. Apparently she didn't know she had it. But someone mentioned in her obitiuary that my husband was the love of her life.
Husband says he is totallly dumbfounded by that. The obituary mentions kayaking, and his kayak is a one person kayak and tooo lightweight for his size at that time. Nonetheless, the kayak is up for sale. If her butt had touched the Harley, that too would be up for sale.
I want to know a "real" why. I want to know why "Her". She was a beached whale, bleached blond. A major slut.
I want to know how many times. Where. How long? Any others?
He gaslighted me sooo well I don't know what I don't know. I just want to die.
Seriously, I don't think anything's going on right now, but he is too dim-witted to believe that he can't spend years hiding other women on his computer and then expect that 'I SAID I'm not doing it anymore!' should be convincing proof.
Valleywoman, I have been through trying to settle for the evidence that it's over. But my gut keeps screaming that I have never been given the whole truth, that his idea of repairing the damage is to lie to me till his dying breath. I don't think a single one of us has been able to ultimately continue a LOVING relationship in that situation. I think it's asking the impossible. He did the damage, he needs to respect your needs at this time, otherwise it's a continuation of the self-centeredness that brought him to that point. Your mc was dead wrong.
Friday- I am cleaning in the bathroom. Mopping, sweeping,toilet,etc the real clean. I reach for my sponge, but I couldn't find it. So I start digging in the cabinet looking for it. I needed to clean because his sister was there and I thought I was psycho enough. Anyway, there;s a large bottle of bleach and I notice a perfume looking top peeking out. My heart starts beating and I pull away the bleach to find a body mist CLEAN by ULTA. I dropped to the floor. I didn't get it Bath gel,shower gel,lotion and body mist worth 60 bucks easy and he tries to tell me "it fell off a truck" he got it from someone stealing from the store. No sense. That's ghetto. And for who? He had combined the two gels poured them into my bath gel bottle and threw away the bottles. Hoping I would find just the lotion.And to this day I don't know who it was for. But I am soooo hurt.
We went out of town this weekend for our daughter's college graduation and he was nice, he made me happy, etc. Now we are back home and we are back to just being roommates.
I've threatened him with divorce if he talks or goes anywhere near OW ever again. See all three of us works at the same place (different buildings). He doesnt understand the tricky position he has put me in. I want to keep my job - been here for 30 years but I will end of losing it if I find out they are still talking to each other.
He has shown no remorse. He feels he's done nothing wrong but be a friend to her and I should get over it and put this past me. The arrogance of that statement really pisses me off! He thinks I'm too emotional because I havent had a hard life and if I had, this wouldnt bother me so much. Please tell me he's full of shit!
I told him, too bad. If I find out he's dealing with her in any way, our marriage is over. How am I suppose to deal with her, knowing she has been intimate with my husband? Knowing they have secrets that have been kept from me.
I feel like I'm doing good staying married to his un-remorseful ass as it is.
He's doing all the good physical things a husband should be doing for me and the kids and its great and I love it but when it comes times for husband/wife time, he keeps his distance.
I think he's angry that I made him breakup with his girlfriend, that he has feelings for her more than the platonic friend stuff he's been trying to feed me. So he's pissed and emotionally punishing me.
I feel like I will fall totally out of love with him and will be in a spot that he will not be able to get me back.
[This message edited by Star727 at 1:00 PM, May 26th (Tuesday)]
"It ain't about love anymore."
A MLC is not a reason, it's an excuse! - Me.
Hugs to all!
D-Day was 12 years ago for me. WH, at the least, had an EA with a co-worker (she has since moved to another state). Everything that I know I found out myself and forced him to admit to. Unless i had concrete proof to show him he lied about it. Even with concrete proof he would only tell me what little he had to.
I've never gotten any real answers. He's only told me they were just friends, nothing happened, he's sorry "if" he hurt me, I'm overreacting, he never slept with anyone else...blah,blah,blah.
It took me YEARS, probably 5-7 years, to feel like a normal person again....to even begin to trust him with anything.
Fast forward 12 years....WH discovers Facebook and starts chatting, and flirting, with women from his past...all the insecurities and trust issues come rushing back and I'm starting to feel like I"M paranoid! But this morning I discover that the fool actually had the nerve to friend the EA coworker from 12 years ago!!!! WHAT???
I realize I am never going to trust him because he was never honest with me. I'll always wonder if he's snowing me. I also realize that i'm exhausted...I don't want to MAKE some be faithful to me. I want someone to love me so much that faithfulness is all he knows.....
It's so good to read that I am not the only one who feels tortured by a partner who refuses to tell the truth.
I feel really wrecked by the whole experience. I don't know why I should be surprised that his lies and secrets continue.
In a nutshell, we were together for a year and a half before he left and moved out of state. From almost the very start he convinced me that I was too clingy and insecure (some truth to that!) due to my past cheating partners (truth there, too), and that my lack of trust would ruin our relationship.
He got me to accept him disappearing with no accountability a little bit at a time. By the end he had disappeared for as long as 4 days, and I learned to battle my panic and not go nuts.
After he broke up with me last summer, he had a couple of confession sessions and I found out that I should NEVER have trusted him, because he is a sex addict who had many liaisons with women, many attempted liaisons, spent hundreds of hours in porn stores watching movies and sometimes doing more, etc. etc.
He hid who he was, he hid everything. Turns out those confessions were just the tip of the iceberg. He wanted to reunite a few months later, and a lot more ugly truth came out. I managed, somehow to process it and we've been together for 8 or so months now.
I had to stop asking questions because he just couldn't take it. So I said I'd wait till we could afford counseling, but we haven't been able to.
The other problem was that he claimed to not remember ANYTHING. I realized that this is a tactic, though. I also realized that it is also truth -- he compartmentalizes so well that he actually hides information from himself. But it's there. It comes back.
The situation now is that he's been getting worse, and I've been getting more aware, since April. Until things finally got really out of hand.
More and more he started behaving like the worst times last year - cold, critical, avoiding me however he could, new friends, new job, long stretches of time out of touch, no sex, impatient or angry when I asked questions, wanted privacy for his computer and email because it's unhealthy not to have it, checking my computer,though, and suspecting me.
(I really liked it when he said that I must be checking his computer because I am cheating, because cheaters always project. I said,"Huh. Ok. I wonder why you're checking mine then?")
And then the facade cracked and I caught him on some things. He still claimed it was my fault and I drove him to it. Or because I was depressed. Or didn't work on the house enough. Or because he's been deprived of strippers and porn stores.
I broke up with him last week, and since then he's flip flopped, confused me, lied to me more, accused me of being crazy, more, etc.
I know there is truth I will never get. But sometimes it just makes me so angry. He has had me convinced I'm paranoid a couple of times this week. Twice I've wept and apologized for being so ridiculous, only to find another lie a few hour later.
I begged him to tell me the truth for my own sanity, and he finally admitted he had a few things he hadn't told me so he could protect my feelings.
But what really is bothering me today is all the friends who keep saying, "Nothing you find out would ever be enough for you." or "It will just make you more upset." This makes me so mad! They even tell him that, mutual friends...
It simply isn't true. When I found out a lot last year, it made me feel so much better to know why things had felt so wrong. Same this time around. Every time he finally confirms my suspicions, I feel great peace.
And I think that a certain amount of that disclosure helps with healing and moving on.
Before i knew, for example, and he abruptly left me last summer, I was heart broken, trying to figure out WHAT had happened. It was good to know it was not my fault, but his own special addiction.
Does anybody else here this from other people in their lives - to stop, that you don't need the truth? What do you tell them?
OH, and I found out last night that one friend had known that he went to a porn store last week and didn't tell me even though her BF is a SA amd she is so hurt by HIS lying. When I guessed it on my own, she was decidedly uninterested in talking about it, which now makes sense.
I swear, the next person who lies to me... well. I'll be mad!
I wrote a long list of questions on my journal page here. And then I maybe did a bad thing- sent the list to him, too. I feel I should have no contact with him. But I want my reality back.
Here's question #1. I bought his answers each time, and this was just yesterday and the I even apologized for accusing him wrongly... What do you think?
1. Yahoo Messenger/Chat/IM. You downloaded Yahoo Messenger, Windows Messenger, and ICQ chat back in April. Then you said they were all "automatic" downloads you didn't want. That darn Microsoft. Come on.
You had an "alias" in Yahoo so you could send messages or be in chat rooms and not use your real Yahoo name. It was spelled wrong, and you are a stickler for spelling. You said, "I would never misspell a name!" and then "Unless I wanted to throw you off the trail!" You claimed that someone
hacked your account and created the alias so as to use chat rooms. "I have NEVER chatted in my life! Only with you."
Last night I logged into a chat room with an alias, to see how it works. When I did, I had to accept the chat room administrator as a contact in order to enter. That contact is called "yahoo" and shows up in the contact list for one's account. I saw that in your contact list last week when we looked at your Yahoo account together. You had "no idea" what or who it was. Now I know, even though you denied the fact, didn't remember that we saw it and then said it must've been that whacko that hacked into your Yahoo account and created that Alias.
That Alias had also clearly been used - it had its own "Ignored Users" list, showing that it had been in a chat room and hit with all kind of spam chat messages. Also, after I went in a chat room last night, I got an email saying that I had asked to join Niki's Hot Amateurs Yahoo groups. In May, you joined "Gina's Hot Amateurs" and then over and over had to delete it. I saw that in your history and wondered why you had to delete it so many times. DUH, because it did that automatically EACH time you went in a chat room.
Last night I sent a chat invite to your alias - you asked me to delete it the other day. I knew if it was deleted, my invite would fail. It didn't. But when I saw you last night, and told you that I had proof you went in chat rooms because I went in the Yahoo adult chatrooms for our state you said, "What, and you saw me leave a room quickly?" and "You asked anyone if they knew me? And someone said I'd been screwing them?" Nope, neither of those, but thanks for telling me. Then you said we should look on your account and see if that alias was there again.
"You'll just say I erased it," you said. Oh, thanks for telling me! Hadn't thought of that. But, of course, once you realized I was on to you, you erased it again.
There was also evidence you were using Myspace an awful lot - was it really just for adding and removing your songs, over and over and over? And all the messaging you did- was just with other musicians? And the fact that your history said MYspace instant messaging? And your history shows you did do that last summer, but you claim now that you NEVER HAVE?
And the fact that you set up a Yahoo personals profile and posted an ad last time we broke up, in May, and then claimed to have NO memory of that and swore the profile was years old, even though I know it was not -- why deny the obvious? We'd broken up. No hard feelings. I wouldn't be uspet about that at all.
Just the lying.
And speaking of Yahoo -- no sent messages in 5 days? Nothing in your trash? OK
It is awful the way the can make you question your own knowledge and sanity. Simpy unbelievable! But I believe when I get ready to confront him again, he will be surprised, as I will use all that I have learned here on SI. The next time I am going to be prepared. And I am going to tell him it is either the truth, as I already know what that is, or he can leave. I am tired of this bull and have had enough.
I do not have to have him and am not afraid of a divorce. Do I love him? Hell yes, I do. And it will hurt like hell, but only for awhile. But he is not going to do this to me much longer. I am not going to live his lies. He can do that all by himself. As he always says "It's your lie, tell it any way you want." Well, my saying is now "It's your lie, you can live it all by yourself."
I am the major wage earner in our household. I can support myself and all that we have (it is not much) without him. We have no minor children and none together anyway. I bought the house before we married and it is still in my maiden name only, so I believe it will remain mine. My only concern is that I do not have to pay him alimony.
I wish everyone the best. I hope things work out for all of you one way or another. Thank you all so much for being here.
[This message edited by enoughalready at 4:29 PM, July 30th (Thursday)]