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User Topic: For Those Still In The Dark
capri
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Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gullible, right now, I'm a little up in the air, but I suppose I've made a decision to stay at least for awhile longer, because I don't want to hurt the kids, because we live peaceably as roommates, and because separating/ divorcing would wreak financial havoc and probably cause me to work more hours-- and since my work hours are all the times my kids are home, I don't want to do that.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Question  Posted: 11:44 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Capri. Do you think your WH is still seeing other people, since you say you live as roomates? It stinks that woman have the lower hand when it comes to finances in this country. We earn less than men in most situations. It's sad that woman are forced to stay in situations like these for financial reasons (although you have children, too, so obviously you are concerned about them.) I don't have children yet- main reason is because of my H's drinking and storytelling (although he thinks he doesn't have a problem with either!!) He had been pressuring me for a long time to have children, but just wasn't listening to my concerns. So, I am kind of like you in that I stay. Only I don't have children, so some ask me why don't I leave? I don't know- maybe I just need complete evidence, since I have invested so much time with my H. Here's a new question for everyone;
When I left my home for 2 months back in the fall, I noticed that my H had called a phone number on Xmas eve at 2:30 a.m. The calls were short and went back and forth a few times. That same number showed up the following Sat. night at 11:30 pm. When I questioned him about it, he said it was a wrong number (yeah, that's why HE called it?) He claims he saw the number on his phone and called it back. Haven't seen that number since then on the cell log. Here's a new twist. Recently he accidentally brought home his phone from the office at work. I happened to press re-dial on it to see the numbers, and guess what? I saw the same number that I saw back in December (back then I checked remotely from a different computer since i wasn't at my house.) So...here's my question...
Do I call the number and try to talk to the person telling her that I'm just checking to see why her number has shown up on my bill and who she is? Or do I ask her if she knows my H?
OR do I call and pretend I am a telemarketer taking a survey and try to get answers out of her that way?Lastly, I suppose I could pay someone (PI) to try and find out what they can about the number. What do you all think is the best way to approach this? If it was a co-worker, he wouldn't have called her at 2:30 a.m., right??!! Or, told me it was a wrong number... YOur thoughts on how to handle this one without messing up again, please??? (First phone number I questioned last summer ended up being "out of service.")

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
JitterbugRag
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Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Keep posting, Gullible! You're SO close to having enough to get into I-tips. In the meantime, don't say a *word* to your H about this number!

Oddly enough, I was using my H's phone a couple of weeks ago (something I never do), and noticed he had a missed call. He said the same thing--that it was a wrong number, and that he'd even called it back to tell the caller it was a wrong number. Who does this? Anyway, just yesterday I learned that this "wrong number" called aGAIN a couple of days ago. Not only that, I looked at H's phone, and he'd deleted all his calls. He's never done that before.

I'm not holding my breath, but maybe, just *maybe* I'm getting closer to the truth--if not about his A years ago, then maybe about something he's up to now.

Hang in there--and remember, not a *word*!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Shocked  Posted: 2:24 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Jitterbug Rat. Good to hear from you again. If some of us lived in the same area, I'd suggest we start a support group for each other!!! We could be each others' spies! (on our signifigant others.) What are you planning on doing to find out about the new suspicious number that turned up on your H's phone? Do you think I should call the woman (even if I don't say anything again to my H about the number?) what do I do? I need to find out whose number that is!!!!

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gullible, I have no idea. He's sworn for the last 2 years that he's nc. However, he's lied and deliberately deceived so many times about ow1, letting me believe he was nc, and at least once about ow3, that I just no longer believe him. He swore to mine and mc1's face that he was now an open book, but he absolutely wouldn't let me near his work account because he is a man of such honor and integrity, and it has confidential information in it.

I later figured out for myself, and he admitted, that he'd moved ow1 to his work account and was still in touch with her. He'd been flat out lying to me and mc 1, with his eyes wide open, looking as innocent as a man can humanly look.

And guess what, he still pitches a huge fit if I want to look at his work e-mail to verify. But I'm supposed to believe that *this* time, he's just concerned about confidentiality. I don't even ask anymore. He's shown his true colors.

So now, even if I could prove he wasn't contacting her in ten ways, I'd figure there was an eleventh that I hadn't thought of or couldn't verify.

That he came to me and told me he sent her the nc letter was a change from the usual, and I believe he might have because I believe we got weeks of hang-ups right after that, that ended when I said, "How are you, ow1?" But the fact is, I can't prove it, and he's very definitely left the door open to contact her behind my back any time he wants.

Keep watching and don't do anything till you have the proof you need.

But keep in mind, you DO know one thing for sure: he's shown himself to be untrustworthy. He's behaved in a way as to raise doubts about his fidelity and character. Do you want to live with that?

We, too, had a call-- 30 minutes on our cell phone. I called and got a woman. I could tell by her voice it wasn't the local ow (it was a local number), but I wonder if it was her roommate, although I've never had any reason to think he ever called her. It was more of a work and e-mail thing. But his story was that it was a wrong number, and he thought he hung up the phone and didn't press the button hard enough, so it stayed on, and voila, a 30 minute phone call from a wrong number.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Capri~ I could have written a LOT of your post here.

Its OVER w/ no R ever...but, I still have to "know", KWIM?

Esp. since I have signed joint tax returns and he blatantly lied about me being protected by the Innocent Spouse Clause, etc.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But his story was that it was a wrong number, and he thought he hung up the phone and didn't press the button hard enough, so it stayed on, and voila, a 30 minute phone call from a wrong number.

I may be overly suspicious , but wouldn't the call have been disconnected when the other party hung up?

This "wrong number" thing with my H is very strange. He lied about having called the number back. (?) And he lied about how many times the number called him. The number showed up aGAIN on this month's statement, lasting 1 minute. Can't figure this one out. I'm beginning to think he just lies for sport. I wish he'd take up golf or something.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gullible--any luck finding out who the number belonged to?

And dreamlife, your sig line says it all!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JitterbugRag, I think you're right, that it would disconnect when she hung up. Sometimes, I just want to scream at my inability to get at the truth, ever.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, it *would* dis-connect...so he is LYING.

Now, think about these *very* odd calls:
Could they be a sort of "signal"? ie, a "hang up" call means get to the (hidden) Tracfone & call back in an hour or ??...it could be a CODE of some sort!!!

Because in my first M, my XH had a pager w/ all sorts of "codes" like this INCLUDING HANG UPCALLS.

Think about it... Just another possibility ~ as you are blithely going out of your mind...

They lie because it gives them a huge THRILL or a "tilt in the kilt" at having gotten away with it, yet again.

Golf is not as exciting.

Lying is very SADISTIC.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, it *would* dis-connect...so he is LYING.

And I wonder why he thinks I'm an idiot. Still, I know now, and I knew then, as odd as it sounded, it would have done no good to point out a FACT to him. He would have lied his way around it.

I checked our cell phone records, and they only go back 60 days. This was last summer or even the summer before. Probably 06, considering that's when he was behaving the worst. This was very clearly a black woman, and he does not have any known friends who are black women, so now I guess I can wonder who he was talking to for half an hour. I'm now pretty sure that ow3 has always had her own personal cell phone, ruling out what I thought at the time, that maybe it was her apartment phone and that was her roommate. What a jerk.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now, think about these *very* odd calls: Could they be a sort of "signal"? ie, a "hang up" call means get to the (hidden) Tracfone & call back in an hour or ??...it could be a CODE of some sort!!!

This is exactly what I thought when my H used to call his voicemail *constantly* throughout the day . . . that it must be some kind of code.

So one day I walk in on him making a call, and he says he's calling his voicemail. I told him the phone will *tell* you when you have a voicemail by pressing such-and-such button. He had no idea. Genuinely, I mean (and I can tell, believe me). After that, he stopped calling his voicemail all the time. He truly didn't know.

Before I realized this, how much time did I waste calling his voicemail from my phone (secretly, of course) to see just *who* was leaving all these messages? I never found anything. I spent months checking, day after day, throughout the day, all for naught.

Same with this odd "wrong number." It happens to be from the same state OW (one of them) is from. Not the same area code, just the same state. I dug and dug and dug--no link that I could find.

Plus, I have a list as long as my arm of mysterious #'s he's called that are "unlisted." But they're single calls, not repeated. What could they mean? Is he seeing hookers? WTF? And therein LIES one of the many problems with being told LIES. You're left with some confirmed LIES, a few highly suspicious tidbits, and a whole lot of imagination. And I have a *very* active imagination.

Sometimes, I just want to scream at my inability to get at the truth, ever.

Yes yes yes. Me too.

(We need a screaming emoticon.)


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I keep meaning to post this link. *Fascinating* stuff about so-called human lie detectors (the woman who writes on the site is one of 50). Check it out. I think we *all* have this ability to one degree or another. We just call it "gut instinct."

eyesforlies.com


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great site! How much of it have you read?

I have a book on the same subject, and the last in-depth conversation I had with fwh, he was showing all kinds of signs.

The question, of course, remains: what do you do with that information? I know he's lying, but telling him that only results in him denying it yet again, and that stupid line, "What do you want me to do? Make something up?" And the self-righteously delivered, "I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do." (I also loved the less common but theatrical, "Then I wish you were!" when I said I'd have to be stupid to believe these stories! )

Anyway, I personally am at the stage where I know he's lying, but I don't know how bad the truth really is, and telling him he's full of it and to try the truth for a change gets me nowhere.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's a quote from eyesforlies.com:

Should you confront the hurtful liar? Well, the choice is certainly yours, but it is going to be an uphill battle, and it is a battle you've already lost. If someone tells you a hurtful lie, you already know, without having to go any further, that they are going to put their own interests ahead of yours—every time—and so the value of the relationship has disintegrated. You now know you are not valued anymore. Essentially, if you ask me, the relationship has disintegrated beyond repair, for good. So what is the point of confrontation?

The only time I will ever confront anyone is if I have established a very close relationship with them, and I know that I have some potential to get through to them. When I am in a close relationship like this, I know that honesty is valued, and in these situations, I will work hard to have the truth prevail. If I can't get through, I will worry about the future of our relationship.

How do I approach them? I approach them with love, kindness and concern. I am never brutal, cruel or mean. I tell them that I am concerned and worried. I question them and express my fears. I try to lead them to the truth. I tell them that I love them more than anything, and that I am willing to lay all my feelings on the table, even if it means risking losing the relationship, because I care so much about them that I can't handle seeing this situation deteriorate any further.

I included an awful lot, but what jumped out at me was really the beginning, the understanding that a person who tells hurtful lies has already chosen himself above you, and that generally tells you all you need to know.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Concerned  Posted: 9:50 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Jitterbug and Capri, how are you? Are we all married to the same man or something? Scary, but they do things that are so alike! Jitterbug- as for the number, Mom of 2 was nice enough to spoof the # and get me a name. I do not recognize the name, but it is an African name, and all my questions and uncertainties about my H stem around a group of African people he knows and I do NOT know. We are not African. So there definately could be a link. I thought the OW (which my H denies there is) was African. Long story, but that's the conclusion I came to. So, I have to do more research on the name. You mentioned one minute phone calls...well, I noticed that pattern on my H's cell phone, too. The numbers he claims were wrong numbers were usually only 1-2 minutes in length. Maybe they are leaving voicemails, or like others have said, just touching base to find another way to connect (a code.) I also questioned different numbers that would just pop up and be unfamiliar numbers for just a minute or two. I started questioning the same thing- is my H seeing hookers? Who are these people? It makes you crazy!!!! I like to think of myself as a reasonable, logical person, and all I want are some explanations! This stuff can drive the most sane of us crazy!!!!
Capri- my H likes to use that line, too "I'm not going to admit to something I didn't do." The only reason I have a hard time with that line is because I've used it, too, when my H started accusing ME of doing things a few years ago (which I was NOT, but I chalk it up to maybe he was up to something so that's why he was trying to blame ME for something!) So, I said that to him because it was TRUE- I was not going to admit to doing something he was accusing me of when I know I didn't do anything. So, when he uses the line it is just confusing, because who knows if it is truthful or an excuse. Just because I was truthful when I said it doesn't mean he was.
I think that in our situations at this point it is just so hard because no matter what our Hs are or aren't doing, we can't believe them because they've already lied to us so much and told us so many stories. The hardest thing is to live with someone you don't trust, because then you question everything they do. My H doesn't like it, but too bad. He put himself in that situation. It sucks, though. Lately, my H has been extra affectionate and "reassuring" that I am the only one he wants to be with or have anything to do with for the rest of his life. I find it hard to believe because I've come to see that he is such a good actor throughout the years. Sad, because what kind of marriage is that?

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I've been duped through it all. Watching WH fumble about, have that deer-in-the-headlight's LOOK, etc.

However, it was all to *dupe* me! Putting so much energy into such behavior(s) when just being himself & being honest would have truly been loads easier, but he was getting off on FOOLING Me (bottom line).

We M very, very good ACTORS!!

Beware...


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great site! How much of it have you read?

I've read pretty much everything and followed some of the links, too. Fascinating stuff, especially her blog, where she documents her progress in articulating how she does what she does. Not surprisingly, she comes across as so open and honest. That in itself is refreshing.

The question, of course, remains: what do you do with that information?

Uhhhhh . . . make lemonade?

I know he's lying, but telling him that only results in him denying it yet again, and that stupid line, "What do you want me to do? Make something up?"

Oh GAWD--I get this, too. "Am I supposed to admit to something I didn't do?" Maybe we should start saying, "Sure, go ahead."

Anyway, I personally am at the stage where I know he's lying, but I don't know how bad the truth really is, and telling him he's full of it and to try the truth for a change gets me nowhere.

Yes, me too. I don't even ask anymore. I never bring it up at all. His response to this is itself a red flag though, as I see it. I mean, if *I'd* been accused of something I didn't do, I would *insist* on talking about it until the problem was solved. But he *never* initiates a conversation about our problems. We haven't had sex since sometime last year. He never brings that up, either. Now wouldn't an innocent man be *doing* something about this situation instead of quietly accepting it? Of course. But a guilty man would want to avoid the subject at all costs.

He avoids the subject at all costs.

what jumped out at me was really the beginning, the understanding that a person who tells hurtful lies has already chosen himself above you, and that generally tells you all you need to know.

Yes, but I wonder what she would do if the liar was her husband and the father of her children? If I weren't married to the asshat, if we didn't have a child, a mortgage, a history . . . well, he'd *be* history.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Jitterbug and Capri, how are you? Are we all married to the same man or something?

Yes.

Mom of 2 was nice enough to spoof the # and get me a name.

I'm glad that worked for you, Gullible. Definitely something to keep an eye on. And I know I'm repeating myself here, but I'd hate to see you make the same mistakes I did, so I'll say it again: Don't confront until you have *undeniable* proof!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I've been duped through it all. Watching WH fumble about, have that deer-in-the-headlight's LOOK, etc.

I thought about you as I read the eyesforlies website, dream. She talks about how psychopaths are a whole 'nother animal. She says they're especially dangerous if they're intelligent. Sends chills up my spine!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
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