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User Topic: For Those Still In The Dark
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, even IF my WH "passed" a lie detector test...I would STILL have my doubts.

Sorry, but I know now who & what he IS.

I have far too often seen his blank stare, repeatedly heard his too many lies & deception (its in his character), & know what a sociopath he can be.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...stuffs.

It would be an utter WASTE in my personal sitch.

And, I have already gotten past this long enough to *realize* it.

I will never again believe a word he says.

I will only believe hard cold black/white EVIDENCE.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Evil  Posted: 11:10 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Dreamlife, I've had the same worries...I talked to my counselor about this a couple of nights ago, and she felt that I would always question the test, whether he passed it or not. It's interesting that you use the word "sociopath" to describe your WH. I was just reading about the symptoms and traits of them lately, and thinking that my H might be one, or have some mood or personality disorder. Scarier thing is, the prognosis is not good. If someone has "anti-social personality disorder" (new name for old name-sociopath), the experts say that there is little chance of them changing or "being cured" because they will continue to lie and manipulate even their therapists, making the therapy ineffective! I saw my H do something like that to one MC we went to long ago...I'll bet most of us who have cheating spouses are married to people with behavior/ personality disorders. They also have addictive personalities- needing more stimulation and immediate gratification than other people. My H also has a drinking problem (although he doesn't think so!) Here is an interesting article for you all to check out; http://www.accg.net/antisocial.htm. Dreamlife- are you still with your WH?

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
What?  Posted: 11:19 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another update...I did post this on my other thread, but I don't know if anyone's still reading it or not!! So...the last few nights I had a hard time getting a hold of my H. He wasn't answering his cell. 2 days ago he left it at home "to charge." But he also was gone for quite a few hours! Yesterday, he got off of work at around 6:30. I know because I called his work and his boss told me. There were very bad thunderstorms and he had ridden his motorcycle to work. I kept trying to call his cell and he didn't answer! He didn't call me, either! I thought he was dead. I felt sick not knowing what was going on. He didn't come home until around 11 p.m. He says he started driving home and it was pouring down rain, so he stopped at a restaurant (for 3+ hours?!) All this time he didn't even call me, even though I asked him to call me when he was leaving work. I checked his cell phone and it does appear he tried to call me at 10:00 p.m. (wow, hours after getting off of work!) The interesting thing is that when I figured out the mileage he put on his bike yesterday, he should only have put around 30 miles max on his bike. He had put almost 60 on it! So, there appears to be an extra 30 miles unaccounted for! When I asked him questions about all this (like where else did he go- "nowhere", where is the receipt for the restaurant "I used cash",and why are there extra miles on the bike?) his response to all this was "You are crazy!!!" Am I? Or would he just like for me to think I am??? After all, he still wants me to believe he used condoms to masturbate, and still hasn't shown me any DVD! What do you think? Did your WH try to make all of you think that you were crazy, too???

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did your WH try to make all of you think that you were crazy, too???

((Gullible))--hugs to you. I know how hard this is.

My H has never come out and told me, "You're crazy," but he may as well be saying just that, since he's telling me that what I know to be true is not. The craziest thing is that it works--if you allow it. You begin to doubt your own senses. That's the whole point of gaslighting.

Keep your feet on the ground and stand firm: you *know* what you know, which is that his story doesn't make sense. The fact that he keeps repeating it doesn't make it true.

If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have confronted my H before I had solid evidence. As difficult as it is, I think you should let him think you buy his story and totally drop the subject. If he's cheating, he'll let his guard down and, hopefully, you'll be able to get the evidence you need.

You're NOT crazy!!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
DOH!  Posted: 2:47 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your advice, Jitterbug Rat, and the hugs, too. Since finding this web site, it's one of the few places where I can relate to and identify with what people are saying. It helps to know that I am NOT crazy, and others have and are enduring the same types of crap (unfortunate for us all, but at least it's a support system.) Oh, and one other new tidbit about the whole video/ DVD/ masturbation w/ condoms story... First he told me he rented videos and already returned them (which I found out was a lie.) Then he claims he used a DVD his friend had given him which he told me twice before he threw out (another lie.) Then he told me "yes, I did throw it out because it was scratched and didn't play. You probably erased it." Then, the newest is that he used a really OLD DVD another friend had given him a long time ago. When I told him yesterday that I wanted to see it (because he kept trying to push me to be intimate with him and make me feel guilty I haven't been giving him any since the condom story surfaced)he said "it's somewhere in the basement." Well, lo and behold I organized the basement today and looked just about everywhere, and I didn't find any DVD. So this is probably a lie too. I am sick to death of all the lies. I really am at the point where I'm starting to feel I'm married to a stranger (and maybe a sociopath, too.) This sucks.

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gullible, it sounds like you have every reason to be suspicious. My H lies about stuff, too--a lot--and, as you described, it makes it hard to believe *anything* that comes out of his mouth.

Do you think you'll be able to stop confronting him until you have undeniable proof? For example: the cell phone. I did the same thing as you, and--once he knew I was checking--he stopped using it.

All by way of saying, I hope you'll learn from my mistakes (and I made plenty). If I'd refrained from confronting him about everything I found at the time, I would have been able to get the truth. Now? Highly unlikely. The A is long-since over, and my H has had ample time and opportunity to cover his tracks. I *so* wish I hadn't tipped my hand too early, and I *so* wish I hadn't revealed my sources of information.

As hard as it is not to confront when you find stuff, I can't recommend strongly enough that you should *say nothing* until you have proof that he can't explain away. If your H is anything like mine, that means you'll need something like a video from a PI. (Although sometimes I wonder if my H wouldn't try to deny *that* too!).


Jitterbug ... RAT?!?


Posts: 490 | Registered: Dec 2007
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, July 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Jitterbug Rat. You might be right about not jumping on everything and letting him know about what I know right away. I have been waiting a bit longer to confront each time, so that I can try to research and find out what I can before I confront him. He hasn't had any suspicious numbers on his cell for a long time, and like you stated about your H, he probably stopped using it once he knew I was on to him. Obviously, a person can't make plans with other people if they aren't contacting them in some way, right? So, maybe my letting him know things is not such a great idea because as you (and others) have said, they may just cover their tracks more carefully. Did you ever try a PI? Do you know how much they charge? How did you finally find out yours was cheating? Do you think he is doing anything fishy? Are you in reconciliation?

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
DOH!  Posted: 2:27 PM, July 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also... the scariest thing that has crossed my mind is- what if he isn't even having an A with a person, but visiting strippers or prostitutes? Yuck!!!! When I asked him about that before, his answer was "I would not feel comfortable doing those things." Who knows?

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Marcia
Member
Member # 6503
Default  Posted: 12:53 AM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest people do not give you reason to suspect them.



WHEN DID THE RULES CHANGE?
How did I miss the memo???

People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)


Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Washington DC
Marcia
Member
Member # 6503
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, July 15th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Gullible for the DSM link. Has some good quotes in it. And regarding "gullible" ... I was always criticized by my ex for being "skeptical"... turned out I wasn't remotely skeptical enough. His remark was just more gaslighting.

there is a remarkable lack of anxiety or depression for situations in which these emotions are usually expected.

Oh yeah. They can sleep through anything. People always say a clear conscience lets you sleep well... well, it turns out that an absolute lack of conscience is even better for that!

Response to therapy is usually very poor

Something people should keep in mind when they recommend therapy as the cure for all ills...


WHEN DID THE RULES CHANGE?
How did I miss the memo???

People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)


Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Washington DC
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 3:15 AM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, Marcia...beware of The Mind Fucking...they are very *skilled* & VERSED in that; they also LIE-- as easily as they breathe.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Wink  Posted: 1:43 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Marcia- good comments and observations. I just read your profile, and it sounds like you had a lot of "whack-job" counselors. If they all told you that you shouldn't talk about your problems, think about them, or be concerned about them, they are in the wrong business! Sounds like they could use some good therapists to counsel them! You were not in the wrong -THEY WERE!

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Question  Posted: 1:44 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jitterbug Rat- are you still around? I was hoping to hear back from you, as I had some questions (see previous posts.) Thanks and hope all is well (as well as can be!)

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dreamlife- just read your profile, also. Are you still in contact with your ex WH?

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Target  Posted: 1:51 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just an update to everyone. Seems like my H is hanging around more lately. He senses my coldness towards him. I told him that I am not going to play games with him and he'd better show me that DVD already! He asked me yesterday if I wanted to divorce him. I just answered him with "what I want is the truth, whatever that is. I want an honest husband. If I ask a question, I want a direct, honest, answer." I told him if he didn't show me the DVD it meant he lied about that, too, and therefore, the whole story is a lie. I told him if he didn't come up with it, we would divorce. Finally he showed me the DVD (not that it proves he used condoms to masturbate, but it's a start.)Today we had a talk and it *seemed* heartfelt on his part, but we'll see. More promises on his part. He promises to call the IC tomorrow. There are still many unanswered questions...I'll keep you all posted.

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Question  Posted: 1:52 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One more thing...can anyone give me some info. on how to find a good PI and what to expect to pay them?

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I go back and forth on the polygraph, but usually end up where dreamlife is, that I'd end up questioning the results either way. As good as they may be, I know there is that one time in whatever that they ARE wrong.

Gullible, you asked some time ago how crazy is it that THEY are trying to convince US we're the ones with the problem. Yes, it is, and to answer another question, yes, he has tried for years to make me think I'm crazy. I am amazed, looking back, at the hell he had me living in, constantly telling me I'd heard wrong, that I'd misunderstood, that I hadn't actually seen what I'd seen, that none of it meant what it would if anyone else in the human race had done or said it.

I can't stress enough what Jitterbug Rag said-- you know what you know. And don't say a word to him until you have undeniable proof. But be warned that 'undeniable' proof is very different for the sort of people we're dealing with. I've found two secret e-mail accounts, ten years worth of Christmas AND birthday cards from her (one sexually suggestive), a dozen different lies and stories about who she is, denials that they're EVEN as much as friends, insistence that actually he's talked about her ALL the time (never mentioned her) and I knew all about her, romantic Asian porn hidden on the computer, him shifting her to his work account and lying to me about that, later saying he did it to 'protect her' from me, refusal to ever say a bad word about her (and you should hear some of the doozies he's said about ME!), refusal to tell me what was said between them, 'too upset to remember' what he said when he sent the nc, the list goes on... and somehow with all of that proof, most of which even he now admits happened, he still insists it was absolutely NOTHING, just a strictly platonic friend who meant really next to nothing to him, and I'm crazy for thinking anything else. Yeah... crazy, I tell you.

I will warn you, too, that one of the members here literally caught her WH in the act, and he tried to convince her she was seeing things. I know if I had pictures, mine would insist that someone photoshopped his face in, and he'd say it with such wide-open, innocent eyes, that I would almost believe him.

So... be careful about what you think is undeniable proof. Collect enough evidence to be sure in your own mind.

On the days I begin to doubt my own senses again, I remind myself that people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. And that I've never in my life had a problem with so many 'coincidences' making me look like something I'm not. No one I know has that problem.


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Flame  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Capri, thanks for the advice. Yes, I guess us "honest" people make the mistake of wanting to confront right away because we expect our significant others to be honest and forthright like us. But I guess that's just unrealistic, and that we have to play a game with them, too, if we want to get any answers. I have a couple other things I'm going to look into before really confronting him anymore. I think my best bet now is just to "lay low" until he feels "safe" again and may become sloppier or slip up if he is up to anything. I just watched that "Gaslight" movie a couple of days ago, and it is so like our men to do what the main character did! No wonder everyone uses the term "gaslighting." So, I'm going to have to be sneakier in finding things, and try to not be as confrontational.

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Frustrated  Posted: 11:20 AM, July 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PS- Capri- what are your plans? Do you plan to stay with your WH although you are not reconciling, just living with a "pack of lies?" Sometimes I feel like I'm in the same situation as you....

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
JVS3
♀ Member
Member # 20124
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has anyone who had their WS take a lie detector test regretted it afterwards? (Even if they passed)


Peace is not something you wish for; It's something you make, Something you do, Something you are, And something you give away. - Robert Fulghum

As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point in the wrong direction.


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