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User Topic: For Those Still In The Dark
Needingthe truth
♂ New Member
Member # 20062
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantheal - It sounds to me like the ONS meant nothing to him so he probably thought that you would forgive him for making a mistake one time (which it seems like you did). I would want to think that there is or was more to the 2 A's and he can't quite come to terms by admitting to them. Just a thought.
I think that what our WS's don't get is that we love them and want to get past it so we can work on rebuilding our marriage.

On another note:

It seems that no matter how I present it my W will not admit to it when it is so clear that something went on. We had a big blow up the other night and both decided to sleep in separate rooms and eventually I would move out. Then the next night another family drama (unrelated) that we have been coping with brought us both to tears on each others shoulders. That night she was going to sleep in ther other bedroom but later came back into my bed. The following day she was so nice and was telling me that she loved me (which she rarely does). I am lost as to where we are. She just doesn't get it that she needs to come clean on what went on before we can really work on reparing our marriage. Being highly emotional and using each other for support on another issue doesn't make our issue go away.


Posts: 10 | Registered: Jun 2008
cantheal
♀ Member
Member # 19857
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know exactly what you mean needingthetruth. I can look at my marriage and think, "man, it just doesn't get any beter than this. We love each other, we have seen the worst side of each other and all that love is still there if not stronger. We make each other laugh every day. We have the greatest kids you could ever ask for. We have great jobs, beautiful hiome, we are each others best friend". Then I drop my head and know that it will never be right, it will never be honest and real without being told, without having to live with all of his lies. There will always be a part of me that is cut off from him because I refuse to let him back in without the truth. And what he doesn't realize is that there is a huge part of himself that he is refusing to give to me, because he is shielding it from me. I need the goodness that is him, but I need the ugly too, and he is keeping it from me. It is hurting him, I believe, just as much as it is hurting me, and our marriage will fail without the truth.

Posts: 75 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Omaha
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Needing the Truth- Once again, after reading one of your newest posts, your wife sounds a lot like my husband. You say that she tells you the problem is yours. Funny, my H told me the same thing yesterday when I told him he either needed to go to individual counseling or marriage counseling with me because his lying and therefore my distrust are not working- there needs to be a huge change. I told him that even if there's a shred of truth to any of his many stories, I wouldn't know how to discern between the two because there are so many lies involved. (this also sounds like Capri's situation!)
He tells me he knows he didn't do anything wrong, and that I'm the one with the problem (yeah, he's a liar!) so I should deal with it! This is blameshifting in its finest- what our spouses are doing to us. They just don't want to take accountability for their words and actions!

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Capri, isn't it annoying that they are the unstable ones, they are the liars and cheats, yet they try to make us think that we're imagining things and making things up? Now that's crazy!
It is hard to live in limbo, amidst a pack of lies, like you and I are doing. Not separating, not R, just in limbo. My H would like to (and tries to) just sweep all my concerns under the rug and go on like it's business as usual, and there is no problem!!!

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
DOH!  Posted: 11:24 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cantheal, Hi and welcome. I am a new member too. I was just wondering if you were being serious when you stated that you have "such a good marriage and friendship.?" I am wondering, because if he is lying to you and being secretive (like my H), then you and I really have neither of those things with our spouses. Lying, sneaking, and possibly cheating do not equate with a good friendship or marriage. Is that what we want? Of course we want the good friendship and marriage- that's why we stick around and try to work things out! Is that what we'll get? Who knows- I guess it depends on how willing our spouses are to be accountable, come clean, have remorse, and work towards the marriages we really want. They really have a lot more work to do than we do, but we can't make them do it. My counselors have told me they feel like I'm doing all the work in my marriage. A marriage takes 2 to work, and if it's only 1 trying, then it's not much. I told my H yesterday that if he doesn't care about my concerns and doesn't think he has anything to do with my problems, then we have nothing to work with. :)
I think Needing the Truth can probably relate to this, too.

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Helpless  Posted: 11:27 AM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

whoops! On my last post, I meant :( Nothing to work with! It's sad that we are all here... we should be able to confide and trust in our spouses, but we can't, so instead we must get our advice from the comfort of strangers in the same situation. I can relate to all of you better than I can to my H. Sad....

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Needingthe truth
♂ New Member
Member # 20062
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gullkible and cantheal - wow, this is getting incredible. Gullible you said the magic words "I didn't do anything wrong", that is exactly what my wife says, over and over.
I have been working on using the 180 program and I am going to start stepping things up a notch, after reading that I realized all if the mistakes that I have made to date.
I am not going to live in this lie too much longer unless my wife changes her mind on the MC or giving me the info on what went on. There is one significant event coming up in the next month that I want to be home for, while I am waiting I am going to start to prepare for my depature, sorry to say. The more I read the more I realize how much she needs help and if she doesn't want to address it then regretfully I will leave. It will really hurt but will be better in the long run.

Posts: 10 | Registered: Jun 2008
cantheal
♀ Member
Member # 19857
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sounds strange doesn't it? To say that I have a great marriage and a wonderful friendship with my H? Believe me, I know. You know that old expression, he would swim through shark infested waters just to bring me a lemonade?? Well that is my H. There isn't anything in the world that he wouldn't do for me...well except stop the lies and give me the truth.

It is like walking into a house that you feel was just made for you. The rooms are open and just the right size, it has been decorated by top designers, everything is perfect, you could never ask for a more perfect home....to bad the freaking foundation sucks. Can the foundation be fixed, yes with the rights tools. As can our M, with honesty.

Will he ever admit to the A? Doubtful. Will I be able to live this way forever, no I can't and he knows it. I believe he is scared to death to tell me the truth out of fear of losing me. I just can't get it through his head that he is losing me anyway.

[This message edited by cantheal at 12:47 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]


Posts: 75 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Omaha
Marcia
Member
Member # 6503
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, one more thing... all of us that are "in the dark" want our SO to confess to us and tell the truth. From talking to others I know who have been cheated on and divorced, they have told me that their exes denied it for years...it wasn't until after they were divorced for a few years that their exes finally admitted they had cheated. So...we may never get the answers we seek until the others think they are "safe" to tell us- like after we're all divorced. Pretty sad state of affairs....

That was the one time I had anything like an admission of the "outside activities"--when it was clear I was leaving. So I thought, "If I stayed then you were going to keep lying; okay that's worth knowing."


I just can't get it through his head that he is losing me anyway.

There is one sure-fire way of convincing him.


I found some condoms missing, so I have a whole new drama going on. He says he used them while "pleasuring himself" which I don't believe

LOL...hmmm me neither


WHEN DID THE RULES CHANGE?
How did I miss the memo???

People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)


Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Washington DC
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So...you found some condoms 'missing'? Why not do a *reverse gas light* and take all of the condoms except for ONE? If/when he asks about it...tell him you have NO idea what he's talking about!

Right now, I've got a great Mind Fuck scenario going with psycho via our e-mails. Oh, its just rich!
(I might even find out more utilizing this "method", too).


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
JVS3
♀ Member
Member # 20124
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is my first post although I have been lurking for several months. I haven't read all the posts here either so forgive me if these might have been answered before. D-day Mar 13. H had at least 2 EA which in his mind was "just talking" (at least 300 calls over 3 months). I strongly suspect that at least one was PA but no matter the evidence (taped conversation saying he was going to change cars and they would go somewhere different than usual) he denies, denies, denies. Will not volunteer anything unless I ask and even then answers obviously don't match evidence. We've been married 29+ years (5 kids) together since I was 17, him 21. Everyone though we were the perfect couple - nieces, etc always said they broke the mold when they made him as there wasn't any men around anymore like him We're trying to R but I don't know how to get past the obvious lies. I'll be ok for days and then I get in such a depressed mood to think that he is still lieing. Only my eldest son (29) knows about the affair but while dissappointed I think he was in a similar situation at the time and possibly identifies with his father. Can M be successfully R if BS is still in dark? Will I just have to suppress my feelings for the next 25-30 years???


Peace is not something you wish for; It's something you make, Something you do, Something you are, And something you give away. - Robert Fulghum

As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point in the wrong direction.


Posts: 409 | Registered: Jul 2008
survivinglies
Member
Member # 19376
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Update to WH's polygraph...

He passed and I am no longer in the dark! They are extremely hard to fool with today's increased technology and I did a LOT of research first and prayed about it.

However, my ultimate test was that WH was VERY against taking one while I was still "in the dark". This time he went willingly (big clue!). I suggested one 10 years ago and he made me feel so guilty about it and used the "they're unreliable" game that I backed down.

This time I simply told him, if any of the answers come out differently than you expect, I'm willing to pay for a second test from another administrator. I was so proud of myself for doing it and holding my ground. I wish I had demanded one 10 years ago. I knew I would not be able to work on R unless I went through with it this time.

I can't tell you the relief I feel. If you read my profile, I spent 13 YEARS in the dark.

Important lesson I learned- don't suggest it until you have information and a contact person. I don't think WH thought I meant it until I walked in and said Monday at 2pm OK for you? If they call your bluff, you are allowing their sick game to continue.

Hugs to all of you.
Repeat after me-
"I'm not crazy"
"I'm not crazy"


BS (me)
WS (him)- ONS 1995, 3 month EA 0708
Married: 18, Together: 20, DS & DD
"Onlies" until ONS
95-98 trickle-"we didn't have sex"
D-day #1 (1/23/2008- EA OW#2)
D-day #2 (5/1/2008- ONS OW#1)
Isaiah 40:31

Posts: 1397 | Registered: May 2008 | From: U.S., just a few miles south of insanity
JVS3
♀ Member
Member # 20124
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Congratulations.

I have suggested this to my FWH who initially said he would do it. (I think he was trying to call my bluff). However, when I told him the exact questions that I would want answered (which could possibly show the extent of his lying and deception ie getting in contact with her through messages/other people before and after A)he blew up and said he isn't doing it again.

I told him that his response was my answer and we've left it at that but I'm hoping someday he will relent.

We are reconciling and, although it would seem illogical, much closer than we've ever been. He is remorseful. He goes absolutely nowhere without me (we have our own business so work together) and he has basically given me control over everything but still not knowing is killing me.


Peace is not something you wish for; It's something you make, Something you do, Something you are, And something you give away. - Robert Fulghum

As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point in the wrong direction.


Posts: 409 | Registered: Jul 2008
survivinglies
Member
Member # 19376
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JVS3-
You haven't posted your profile, but I am hoping that you bravely insist on the truth. This is part of true remorse. I was given half the truth 10 years ago and WH seemed remorseful, and things even got better for a while. I wish I had been brave enough to insist on the truth. I wish I had gone through with the polygraph then. I wish I wasn't afraid to make him mad. Being in the dark was awful. I finally built a wall he could not guilt me into tearing down. You can do it. Insist on the truth today. You deserve nothing less.


BS (me)
WS (him)- ONS 1995, 3 month EA 0708
Married: 18, Together: 20, DS & DD
"Onlies" until ONS
95-98 trickle-"we didn't have sex"
D-day #1 (1/23/2008- EA OW#2)
D-day #2 (5/1/2008- ONS OW#1)
Isaiah 40:31

Posts: 1397 | Registered: May 2008 | From: U.S., just a few miles south of insanity
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
What?  Posted: 12:44 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Update to WH's polygraph...
He passed and I am no longer in the dark! They are extremely hard to fool with today's increased technology and I did a LOT of research first and prayed about it. "

Surviving Lies...When you say that you are not longer in the dark and that he "passed" the polygraph, do you mean that he was telling the truth and didn't do anything, or that he came clean about an affair? Just curious, because I had told my H I wanted him to take the test, but I'm still not sure about the reliability. You do have a good idea though- take a second one with a different person if you're unsure about the first. I hear you're not supposed to let the person know about the test too far in advance, though, because there are ways to prepare for and pass it!


Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Frustrated  Posted: 12:49 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dreamlife- that's a good idea! Do a "reverse gaslight" and take some condoms to see if he says anything about it. Although, with him, I don't think he would, because he doesn't seem to keep track of that stuff. But, you never know! The only problem is, that I always try to be the "model" of the two of us- like the golden rule- "treat others as you would like for them to treat you." I guess that's the teacher in me talking! I just despise dishonesty, lies, and sneakiness, so I try not to be that way myself. However, you may have a point in that it may be one of the few ways to actually get the truth.

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
Question  Posted: 12:53 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Marcia- you stated that "there is one surefire way of convincing him" in responding to Cantheal who thought her husband didn't want to come clean for fear of losing her. She said he is losing her anyway. That's how I feel in my situation, too. What is the surefire way of convincing him that you are referring to? To leave?

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
Gullible
♀ Member
Member # 20005
DOH!  Posted: 12:58 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just an update... I had another "discussion" with my H on Saturday morning. He says he will go to an individual counselor to work on his problems... He says he'll call someone today. I had told him he had to either go to an individual counselor or a marriage counselor with me (mainly about his lying, and therefore my distrust.) He said it would probably be better for him to work on his own problems. I already go to my own counselor, and it helps. So, we'll see if he follows through...He also kept telling me how much he loves me and has never cheated on me, and how he'd never do anything to hurt me...I told him that actions speak louder than words, and that I needed to start seeing some actions for change on his part.
He still maintains the story he told me about using condoms to masturbate. He says he lied about that because it was embarrassing.
Interesting enough that he would first think of "trying" this while I was out of town! Still waiting for him to come up with the DVD he says he used, since he lied about renting videos. Blah....

Posts: 124 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Midwest
survivinglies
Member
Member # 19376
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gullible- by "he passed" I meant that he is finally telling the truth. If you read my profile, you can see that I have endured trickle truths and lies for 13 years. On May 1st, he confessed the "whole truth". The polygraph was to see if the "whole truth" was really the whole truth this time. It's still awful that he had a A (which he finally confessed back in May), but now I know that the EA a few months ago had not progressed to a PA and that there are no other A's that I don't know about. I just wanted to know that he was finally telling the truth. He was. He may have failed the marriage, but he passed the "I'm no longer lying" test. Does that make sense?

You probably don't want to give too much notice, but you can get all kinds of information online about how to "pass" but guess what- the test administrators have internet, too! You will also want to read these sites so you know what to look for.


BS (me)
WS (him)- ONS 1995, 3 month EA 0708
Married: 18, Together: 20, DS & DD
"Onlies" until ONS
95-98 trickle-"we didn't have sex"
D-day #1 (1/23/2008- EA OW#2)
D-day #2 (5/1/2008- ONS OW#1)
Isaiah 40:31

Posts: 1397 | Registered: May 2008 | From: U.S., just a few miles south of insanity
JitterbugRag
♀ Member
Member # 17294
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow--I'm becoming (slowly) more convinced that a polygraph test is the way to go.

survivinglies--how did you go about finding one? Everything I've read says that the key to getting accurate results is an experienced polygrapher. The process sounds brutal! How stupid am I that I give a damn how brutal it is for *him*? I mean, like the past five (or 15, or 20, for all I know) years haven't been brutal for ME?

I don't know. I just don't know. Maybe this would, at the very least, be a catalyst to shake things up. As it is, I'm stuck . . . stuck in a web of lies.

It's unbearable.


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