Have you told him how it makes you feel? When I told my WS that when she just stops contact short of sex or intimcacy, without saying anything when she knows its obvious what I have in mind, that it feels like a rejection.
ETA: and telling her that seemed to help some, although only time will tell.
If you listed that list of feelings for your WH and he "didn't get it" then you have done enough to feel justified in imposing whatever consequences you see fit, IMHO...
also, three days without showering??? I guess that's just me but that seems like a long time ...
[This message edited by HurtinMan at 7:40 AM, October 22nd (Monday)]
No, the not showering was P/A behavior at it's best. I told him last night I would give him a pass, but he owed me 2 now. You know what he said??
"Well, if you'd stay in bed with me this morning, you might have had a shot at it." I was sitting in bed when he woke up.... I woke him up. It's the same crap he was giving me before... "you weren't around when I wanted to" (I had gone in the BR to pee) or "Butyou were already dressed, so I figured you wouldn't be into it." (Yeah, those damn unremovable clothes... I gotta stop buying them.)
It's just BS. I've told him I want him to initiate. He says I don't give him a chance. When I did, when I shut up and just sat back and waited... it took 4 months. When I told him I didn't like his rejections every other time I tried, he said I was coercing him into sex, that it felt like rape to him. Now THAT was a fun MC session.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
It sounds like it is always YOUR fault... that his needs are what matters and yours are just a bother...
My FWW does a similar thing, maybe to a lesser degree - "oh, I'm balancing the checkbook right now" or "I'm so full from dinner" or "Aren't you just exhausted? I am..." or "I think the kids are up" or "the wind is blowing" or "fill in the blank here"
when these responses happen, I remember a time when company in the next room didnt stop us, food burning on the stove didnt stop us, we used to put our DD down or a "20 minute nap" when the mood struck... what happened to those days???
Answer is, I dont know... I wish I did and how to bring that flame back so I could tell you too.
Your husband is warped in his thinking.
I wish my WW would feel about marital sex as you do.
Yeah, I wish my DW would show more enthusiasm, and get aggressive, you're not alone in those feelings.
I didn't know he was having multiple affairs at the time. When I'd say something to him he'd say "Oh, they're just younger than me. We used to be like that too. I'm just too old and tired now. -- He was 43-44 or so.
So what do I do? Cutting him off won't have any effect, he's effectively done that himself.
Are there any performance issues on his part? could it be there are physical things he is uncomfortable or can't discuss with you? Tried slipping Viagra? I couldnt tell from your post if you ruled out physical reasons?
I dont know, of course, but just wanted to offer the other reason opposed to potential psychological reasons that may exist.
It's all in his head. Guess I can't do anything about that.
Oh, he will never take viagra, says when it goes, it goes. He barely takes aspirin for a headache, won't take his arthritis meds or his cholesterol meds either.
I feel for you. There is only so much you can do when there is no response from the other side.
I think I read somewhere else that you were (as am I) the "fixer" type personality and so I guess I can definitely imagine what you must be feeling but it sounds like it is out of your hands except for what you can do to make yourself happy.
Now I have something else to resent... he wanted it more then. I'm already fighting the "she had more sex with him in one year than I had in 10" issue. This surely doesnt' help.
I can relate to the "he had more sex with her in one year than I had in 10" and believe me, that feeling sucks.
OM had sex with FWW just as much as I did, if not more, over the A. Also, he was able to ejaculate in her because of his vasectomy wheras I could not. The idea of my having sex with her while his "stuff" may have been lingering around was almost too much to get over.
But yet, I'm trying, and she isn't... that's the part that gets me (and I assume you) as a BS.
FWW and I talked last night and it ended up in the same place -
me: "its important to me that we have a sex life, and X# of times would satisfy/meet that need... tell me what I can do or what the middle ground here is"
her: "I just don't think about it like you do. I don't know what the middle ground is, I just don't feel that way as often as you do." Then she rolled over annoyed and went to sleep.
So much for trying to compromise on our needs...
And I start to resent that response that gets nowhere because I have changed some of my ways considerably to meet her needs ... she just says that's how she feels and that's the end of the discussion and she wonders why I keep bringing it up... well duh! because my feelings and needs are still there and I'm trying to tell you its important and that we need to resolve it and you are not doing anything different, that's why it keeps coming up! she makes me feel like I'm some over sexed guy because I'd like to have sex more than once or twice a month. Even my IC agrees that is a low number for a relatively newly married couple in the 20s.
(sorry... bit of a vent there)
You said your H MB's alot - several times a week. Maybe he's so immunized or jaded from porn and MB that he is unable to feel the same as he did about RL sex? Is he a porn addict? How do you know he MBs? How does he explain the urge to MB as being different than the urge to have sex?
Hang in there weepy...
Things went ok after that and I was sure I had found what was wrong. I do believe he is a recovering SA. Another reason for me removing the porn.
Now he says without it, he just doesn't think about sex that much. That porn got him in the mood and he didn't ALWAYS MB to finish while watching it. Sometimes he "saved" himself for me. That amounted to like 1x every other week. Not enough for someone desperate to reconnect and have real sex.
How do I know? I set up a VAR in our bedroom for months, every day. I'd "catch" him doing it like every other morning. Usually like 10 minutes after I'd left the house.
He swears he hasn't MB in over a month, yet feels no urge for sex? Nah, I think he's doing it in the shower.
At the time I put his porn away, I agreed to give up my 'toys'. I wanted to normalize our sex life. It didn't work apparently.
I do not have experience with a SA but have read that sometimes "sobriety" can minimize sexual desire for a little while... its like being overstimulated then shutting it off - it takes awhile to desensitize and get used to a less intense stimulation.
I could be way off base so I apologize if I am.
Hang in there...
he was not intimidated, but I don't know the word... he felt inadequate. Especially when he realized I was getting off with them and not with him.
He had 3 years to detox from the affairs before I found out. It's been almost 7 mo. since the last of the video porn was disposed of and probably 5 or 6 mo since the last lingerie catalog showed up in the mail.
The porn is a problem because he used that and did not turn to me. I mean, 10 minute after I left the house.... He'd even push for me to leave the house... "go to the gym" and ask specifically "how long do you think you're going to be?" So he'd know how to schedule his little private party.
the only info he ever gave me about his LTAP was that she was a redhead. One of the porn videos I found was all redheads... now, do you think I want to see that?
I told him the other night that if he can't get excited about just being with me, without some kind of outside stimulous, I might as well be a whore. It's just sex at that point. He disagrees, but then he's delusional.
This is my question. Alot of this is is the spouse feeling pressured, do they avoid it, etc.
What about ME! What about my needs? What are our Spouses doing to help us. They were the ones that f***ed UP and I am left to put everything back together.
Damit, what about me and what I need for God's sake. If I want to have sex, and it is going to make me feel better, shouldn't I just be able to have sex. I don't get it!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel you on your comments. I have thought it before myself.
One of my good friends told me my FWW "should give me unsolicited bJ's every day for a year to make up for the betrayal and pain it has caused." I just had to laugh at him and that possibility, as nice as it sounds.
The fact is when it comes to sex and performing, there is no way to make it impersonal. You are mingling your bodies together.
It is not like talking or housework or bills or cooking or other things we can do that are uninvasive and even impersonal if need be.
Besides, if I were to say "submit WS, you have hurt me and you must perform as I wish" I, personally, wouldn't enjoy it knowing that it was not her choice to do so. Sure, I might feel better and have some pleasure BUT I want her to WANT to be there, to FEEL it like I do.
Not to mention the pressure can kill any residual desire or drive away the WS for feeling used or whatever, despite what they did. The fact is sex is often too tied to our emotional needs to separate it out.
It's not fair, it just isn't. I do have to admit, DW's libido was low when we met, low when were were dating, and low when we got married. Things slowly improved for a while, but it's never been where I wanted, and I still got married.
So how come he can have sex with her in such a short amount of time, numerous times, but is with me everday and can't seem to.
It is hard to compete with a fantasy. I think a lot of BS's feel the way you do - myself included. That the WS got to escape reality, their "normal" selves, was much more desiring, and felt the need to branch out.
Its more about the WS's internalizing things than what we as a BS did or did not do. This is the hardest part of the A to accept in my opinion.
the thrill of the forbidden, the chase, the lure of a new person's desires, and the adrenaline that flows when something is "wrong" all contribute to how the WS got sucked into the whirlwind, we'll never understand that completely - but the bottom line is that a fantasy is just that - it never withstands reality and real love. real love has integrity and strength and is not based on a false set of circumstances. real love deals with the warts and all of bills, stress, and all the idiosyncracies that come in a marriage and a relationship. A fantasy just crumbles against all that, but its a wild ride while it lasts and the fallout lasts so much longer.
at least that's what I keep telling myself these days. I understand and feel your resentment/bitterness in that nothing you did or did not do contributed to what the WS chose to do.