He NEVER thought he was capable of cheating. This thing has shocked him as much if not more than me.
I have always been a believer of things happen for a reason, and while I would never in a million years wish this to be our marriage wake up call, it has. I don't know if anything else would have worked with him. The fact that he did not think himself capable of this has scared the crap out of him, devasted his own morals and beliefs and he can't look himself in the mirror at times.
S E R I O U S L Y
I'm with him on his first trip since Dday but I know he wont always be able to take me and he wont be able to check in all the time as he is a producer. He agreed not to drink when not with me but he did stuff to his exes while sober.
He is definitely remorseful and trying and was devastated when I was going to leave him.
This doesn't really give me security though. The no drinking and reality of losing me should help him think twice next time but why didn't he think before? She didn't mean anything & he knew I would leave if he did it but he did it anyway. I think he did it cos he knew I wouldn't know but he said he wasn't thinking that...he wasn't thinking anything...he was very drunk.
It's just hard to believe that if someone could do something so stupid once they could do it again and alcohol is not an excuse. I do believe it affects our decisions and behavior but I used to drink heavily (16 years sober now) and I never did anything like that.
I saw a therapist though who specializes in marriage counselling, alcoholism and sex addiction and she said get him to only drink when he is with you & see what he does. She said that anything can happen under the influence even if I didn't do it as I am not the epitome of what happens when drunk.
The other thing that bothers me is that when I first found out and was confronting him about stuff he got defensive and said things that I never have heard out of his mouth before. i find it hard to believe anyone can say that to someone they love no matter what pressure and fear and attack they are experiencing. He called me a bitch and told me he hated me. That same morning before calling me that he was going to kill himself because I wouldn't change my mind about leaving him. I know he never meant what he said but how could he say that? It worries me.
I also think he understands that this is my IC. I have gone to IC and they said I didn't need to return and our MC said she would let me know if she has any concerns but thought I was doing fine. This is an amazing amount of support and almost like Group Therapy for me.
I have encouraged him to come on here and get his own user name and find the support I have but he really doesn't like talking about his actions. It was a stretch getting him to go to IC which he has gone to once and now going to MC. I think he doesn't mind MC as much though because I am there with him.
My H only travels for referee stuff and it is typically completely optional but if he is invited to go it's looked down upon if the invitation isn't taken as he is working his way to refereeing professional soccer... It's kind of his hobby as there isn't a lot of money there. On a positive note - he was looking at the tournaments for this summer he should work and thought he could say here at home this year and just do local stuff...
Baby steps everybody!
DDay - 12/01/2008
I went away this weekend and came back tonight very depressed. Everything brought me down and it was so hard putting on a "brave face" for my girlfriends who have no idea what I'm going through right now.
I know it's only been a couple months since D-Day, but I don't feel any closer to closer or peace than I did in the days after I found out. I think I'm just more able to keep my tears in check.
Baby steps, I know. So hard to focus on the positive when it's clouded in this ugliness.
It took me over a year. I think we put alot of pressure on ourselves to get over it quicker than if it were an LTA. Truth is, the healing takes just as long.
What are you doing for *you*? Have you taken up any new interests or hobbies? Maybe some old ones that you haven't done for a while?
Distraction, even if for an hour or so each day can do wonders.
I decided to R and work on forgiveness & trust. I don't know that I'm there yet...it's only 3 weeks since D-day and actual kinda ONS (didn't have sex).
I don't expect that to come immediately and I have been able to have sex but it's not the same. So much of attraction and chemistry is mental for me & I can't forget what happened. He used to be my hero. My best ever most perfect partner. I still love him but will it ever be as good? I know it might not be the same. I guess this is one of the reasons why I had said that I would leave if he ever cheated. The spell is broken along with my heart.
Thanks for your response. I can't be 100% sure because I wasn't there and given that I've lost trust I don't know if I will ever be sure but I think there wasn't. I don't think that makes any difference though as I think it could have easily happened if they weren't so drunk...they passed out. I don't know if you know my story but he was away for work and got drunk with a girl on the job and ended up in his room for a drink from the mini-bar after bar closed. She took off clothes and got in bath...he got in with her. They kissed a little not really a make out session and passed out. I spoke to her too and her story wasn't the same enough to be agreed on by the two of them but the close enough to maybe be the truth. She was a client and his boss had asked him in the preceding weeks to give her a lot of attention and to IM her regularly cos she needed it. It was a business move that made them too interested in each other and then with the alcohol it went too far. I'm still shattered that my hero could do something so inappropriate that he knew would break my heart if I ever found out. I found out accidentally. He said he wasn't thinking at the time when I asked what he thought about me finding out or not.
Has anyone been able to feel the same love and passion for their ONS WS?
Yes, I have. After alot of hard work in R, I think the love, passion and appreciation we have for each other and our M is far more than what it used to be.
When I say it doesn't matter I mean it is as bad to me as if they did...though I wouldn't want to find out if I could feel any worse by seeing what that feels like...unless it did happen. I want the truth but like I said, I think if it could go so far it could easily go all the way. I think if they hadn't passed out it would have happened.
Any spouses out there who are reading this for suggestions to help in healing your partner's anguish... I suggest doing the same.
It's always the little things, isn't it?
My story, written shortly after D-day, is in my profile, but the basics are that my boyfriend of 5 years (only thing preventing engagement was saving up for the ring) got really angry about a relationship issue we've been having, got wasted while out of town with a guy friend over the weekend and decided to act out by doing something destructive to our relationship. He ended up making out with a girl at a bar. He tells me they danced together for a bit and then "just kissed" (although he's quick to acknowledge that there's no "just" about it and that kissing is still cheating). They were sitting at the bar and didn't leave together, so unless that's a lie, I don't think that more than that happened. He says that he reached a point where he was ready to leave and felt , and his friend was also ready to leave, so that was the end of the hook-up. Without my prompting, he told me about it the night he came home.
I wonder the same things...is he really telling me the truth about just kissing? If circumstances hadn't worked out that both friends wanted to leave, would things have gone farther, even to a point of leaving with her? I (foolishly) asked him the hypothetical...what if the friend had wanted to stay? His answer was hard to hear, but could have been worse. He said he would not have let it escalate because the hookup was about hurting our relationship, not an interest in the girl, and he knew that anything more than kissing her would have triggered "emergency brakes" on his destructive lashing out. He told me, however, that if the friend had really pushed to stay at the bar, he probably would have continued to kiss this girl, even though he didn't want to stay.
It's honest, but hurts nonetheless.
I don't know what the point of my sharing this was...I'm about 10 days out from DDay, so I'm doing a lot of processing. Things could have been worse, but in some ways, the pain of losing the trust I thought we had is just as raw. But I also love him, and think he is a good man who made a terrible, terrible mistake. He wants to work on his own issues (not lashing out at our relationship just because he's angry or frustrated) and on our relationship issues (not taking each other for granted, etc.).
So now I feel guilty about being too willing to believe that he's telling me the truth and wanting to get through.
[This message edited by Wind Knocked Out at 9:20 AM, February 2nd (Monday)]
Not sure I am qualified to answer this, however, my W's ONS has has a profound effect on my life...and my marriage.
Three years out, I am still not sure she understands what she did or why she did it.
I suspect she was having another affair prior to this, however, she denies it.
It has made me question my marriage, make more stringent demands on my marriage, and search out higher expectations of what I am getting from my marriage.
We have gone to counsellin, and it hasn't worked.
After the ONS, she wanted to drop the matter quickly. I got about 2-3 weeks to discuss this with her before she told me she was done discussing it. The pattern was unaltered...my needs, hurt, feelings were unimportant.
I have gone through a lot of reflection, and I now believe the end of my marriage is near.
The ONS isn't the reason, it was only the beginning of the end.
There was a period of hysterica bonding, and a period of emotional honesty we hadn't had since early in our marriage, but it was fleeting.
The destruction and devastation did open a window to a possibility of something better (along with a shitstorm of anger, guilt and a host of other emotions. Maybe some couples could have built on that. We couldn't.
The Present is the living sum-total of the Past.
Filed for divorce 8-4-10
Three incredible kids 18,14, 11
Wind, I don't feel guilty or bad. I think regardless of how much or how little we hear, we always think there is more. Many BSs here will tell you to listen to your gut on this.
So now I feel guilty about being too willing to believe that he's telling me the truth and wanting to get through.
The not knowing, or learning to live with the second guessing is hard. Be patient with yourself.
Pugwash, I'm guessing your dday was some time ago. If so, being this far from it has certainly given her the opportunity to R. I'm so sorry it's not looking like your M can survive it. You've obviously put alot of time and effort into it so no one can say you didn't try.
I am happy for you that you have been able to work through the many issues related to infidelity and put you marriage on a growing track. It is what I aspired to, and have tried to do.
Looking back, I see that I have processed so many of her actions and coments since D-Day through the prism of my own hopes, that I missed many signals that she was trying to send me. There were so many mixed messages, that I was trying to filter out the ones that didn't fit in with my vision of where I hoped and believed the marriage could move to.
The times I did probe into what something meant, she quickly dismissed, diffused, or turned the tables on me.
Although I initially tried to focus solely on what would make her happy in the context of the marriage, I never really got a feel for what that would be. Paradoxically, it wasn't until I really began to examine and focus on what I wanted and needed from the marriage, did the reality of the condition of the marriage settle in for me.
It has been a long road, but I feel at this point that the ONS was not the destroyer of the marriage, it was only another one of her unstraight messages that this marriage wasn't right for her.
The final indignity is that she is waiting for me to end the marriage, because she has not had the courage or directness to do it herself, and is setting me up to be the "bad guy" to the kids and her family and friends.
It is the price I will pay to move on with my life and find happiness and emotional honesty with someone who I can just be myself with.
I believe you are a selfless person, and appreciate the time you took to read and reply to my post. Thanks for the Hug.
I agree that you really need to heed your gut on this one, and take some time to see how it plays in your heart.
It is a devastating thing to your relationship, however, it can open doorways to a deeper understanding of each other if you can open up deeper communication and really listen to each other.
I don't believe you should do anything rash at this point, however, stay keenly aware of how you ae feeling, and whatever messages are coming from him. And don't be hard on yourself, this is a difficult and painful crisis.
I keep asking questions, and he keeps answering, but I keep wanting him to spontaneously say something affirmative, but since he's not a mind-reader, I keep wanting to tell (or ask) him I need to hear those things. But then I just end up sounding more needy and bossy.
And then, when I ask hard questions, I can't handle the answers for a while...I just flip out. For example, last night, I was triggering from watching the Daily Show (ONS happened in DC during inauguration weekend). I was getting upset and said something about him having his tongue in someone else's mouth...sort of like I'm trying to desensitize myself by being really brash about it. He tells me "No, his tongue wasn't in her mouth." So I get this weird glimmer of hope, that they "just" kissed on the lips and I have one less thing to struggle with reclaiming. I say, "wait, so you didn't french kiss??" And he gets kind of uncomfortable and tells me that no, they DID french kiss. His tongue wasn't in her mouth and her tongue wasn't in his, but their tongues were touching.
Well, that set me off even worse, and I started to cry about that being another mind movie that I won't be able to get out of my head, and it makes me so angry that it's an act that he has taken from us because he did with her. I feel like I'll ALWAYS picture it, or at least think about it, when we kiss intimately, if I can ever do that again. I said something about kissing me wasn't enough. He didn't correct me right away (seemed to have a deer-in-headlights thing going on), not until I pointed out that he hadn't said anything, and then he tried to say something as I ran from the room. He didn't say anything else to me last night except "good night" and "I love you."
But after some time, after thinking and sleeping, I realize that of course I knew they did that. They made out at a bar, what else would have been going on. So I'm a little embarrassed for flipping out, and I know that so much of this is a coping mechanism to a difficult thing that happened. I just wish that my brain and my guts could get on the same page more quickly. I don't want to punish anyone (including myself), but I also need to go through it. But going through it is putting a lot of pressure on WSO, where our relationship was already kind of strained in the first place.
The worse part is, now I want to know what he was wearing that night because I want to get rid of that outfit. I never want to see it on him and I never want his skin to touch it again. I'm sure it was one of his favorites, since he only packed a few for his trip and likes to impress this particular guy-friend he was visiting. I bet he wore his brown blazer. I want to get rid of the whole outfit, and I know he's not going to want to, which will hurt even more. But wouldn't this be like the same thing? Maybe in a few days or weeks, I'd be able to get over the outfit? Is this just emotions rising fast and furious?
I'm so frustrated. Last night, before the kissing conversation, I was actually feeling pretty good about where we were headed...I've been doing so much thinking and really starting to see some stuff about us (or as close to it as is reasonable at this point), but right now I'm so filled with turmoil...I don't know what it is, it's just hard to keep my head on straight.
[This message edited by Wind Knocked Out at 9:23 AM, February 2nd (Monday)]