Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: EnoughNow (44278)

I Can Relate Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Agnostic/Atheist Support Group
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I actually love "old style" Catholic churches. The ornateness, the stained glass windows, the stations of the cross, the sometimes macabre statues. I am enthralled with them.
This. ^^^ Whenever I travel I make it a point to visit old Churches in the area. They are interesting to me from a purely historical/aesthetic aspect.

So, I think that what this thread is best used for (and I could be wrong, someone let me know) is discussing how a lack of belief in a higher power affected your dealing with infidelity. That's not to say that the 'nooks and crannies' of the A/A world is not interesting....it certainly is.

But my assumption is that if someone is on this thread then either don't believe in a deity, or are unsure of one's existence...in either case, I guess I'm assuming that an individual in an infidelity situation who is ANYWHERE on the A/A spectrum who not be one to turn to a deity for comfort, understanding, and guidance.

Thoughts?


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, to give a partial reply to the question of where/who/what can we, the AA spectrum, turn to or look for comfort, understanding, and guidance, I think that in some respects, we can still turn to a lot of the same resources that a believer might find when they look for support, understanding and guidance.

Depending on the issues involved, self-healing might require participation in various 12 step programs. While a lot of the newer programs are non-religious and generic in nature, some of the more common programs (Alcoholic Anonymous comes to mind) had a reliance on Christian faith which meant that some of the A/A community felt uncomfortable with.

However, with the rise of the A/A community and a recognition that faith based programs are not the best answer, a lot of new 12 step addiction programs have been specially tailored for the A/A community.

http://www.smartrecovery.org/?gclid=CLrbs7T-vL0CFQ5gMgodpHsA6w

http://aaagnostica.org/alternative-12-steps/

http://www.alcoholics12steps.com/new-hope-for-alcoholics.php

http://www.sossobriety.org/12steps.htm


The need to deal with grief and grieving is a common topic on SI. Whether its grieving the loss of the marriage or the spouse, coming to terms with loss is a common step in the SI community. While a lot of the literature of grief relates to dealing with the loss of a loved one, the grieving process is very similar to that experienced by the WS/BS and the process/practice of working through grief is basically the same.

If your looking for resources that relate to grief and grieving, there is some websites tailed for the A/A community.

https://www.facebook.com/faithfreegriefsupport

http://thegrievingatheist.com/

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/25/7_groups_atheists_can_turn_to_in_times_of_need_partner

HUFI

Edit for sellin

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 10:32 AM, March 31st (Monday)]


Don’t listen to your head, it’s easily confused. Don’t listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3226 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I'm assuming that an individual in an infidelity situation who is ANYWHERE on the A/A spectrum who not be one to turn to a deity for comfort, understanding, and guidance.

I was operating under the same assumption. Though I admittedly place all spirituality and supernaturalism under the deity category and it gets confusing when conversation drifts into that territory.

I don't think we should limit the discussion purely to how lack of belief affects infidelity, though obviously that's going to be the central theme. If we did that then Betrayed Men would be shy a ton of excellent, interesting and entertaining contributions.

I bet I can work a star wars rant into this thread.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7363 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think my lack of belief in a deity was more difficult for people who wanted to be supportive of me when I was dealing with the worst of it than it was for me. I could tell that they wanted (and some did) to offer me platitudes about "god's plan" and some sort of bullshit inherent balance in the universe. I have to admit that on one of my angrier days, my Mom actually let one of those slip and I went off on a rant including references to the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Boogey Man. I felt awful afterwards because she was just trying to help but I was just so angry at the world and that was my outlet for the anger at that particular moment.

For me, I don't think the process was any more difficult because I don't believe. When I was going through the phase where I was reading every book and trying desperately to understand what the hell was going on, it was tough for me to find good books on the subject that weren't written from a religious viewpoint but otherwise, I don't think it would have been any easier if I believed in some sort of cruel, vindictive higher power.


Posts: 1570 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Arizona
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think we should limit the discussion purely to how lack of belief affects infidelity, though obviously that's going to be the central theme. If we did that then Betrayed Men would be shy a ton of excellent, interesting and entertaining contributions.
True.

I bet I can work a star wars rant into this thread.
I would never doubt your prodigious powers, sir. In a somewhat-related note, where stand you on the people that un-ironically claim Jedi as their religion?


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the Jedi thing, sans the tomfoolery of telekinetics, is no more or less silly than any other religious belief. If people want to identify as such then have at, I guess.

I will say from experience those fucking robes do not lend well for mobility. Would have to be the not-fighting, squeal like a terrified rabbit kind of Jedi to wear those things for real.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7363 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They look scratchy, too. Like they're made from burlap or hemp.
I think the Jedi thing, sans the tomfoolery of telekinetics, is no more or less silly than any other religious belief. If people want to identify as such then have at, I guess.
I went to the Temple of the Jedi Order website, and they actually have a codified set of beliefs that is kind of interesting. Huh.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will say on the surface the idea is solid. Though I think the actual SW universe went the wrong direction with it in later stuff - the idea that you should have no emotional ties is inhuman. Though if I was to nerd out, I vaguely recall Luke abolishing that stuff.

The ability to acknowledge and accept emotions without allowing them to overwhelm judgement is a powerful thing. Telekinetics and precognition are cool and all - who the fuck am I kidding, they're awesome - but what the whole detachment from emotions ought to be about is a mastery of the self.

We were just watching the Matrix movies recently and a quote from the Architect seems appropriate:

Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the Anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction: the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you to the simple and obvious truth: she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Setting aside the ridiculousness of the Matrix films - and I note that in a serious discussion of the value of Jedi beliefs in a real world scenario - it's a common theme that one of the things that makes us human are the emotions we feel. The whole Tasha Yar discussion makes me think of Data and his emo chip. Yet for some reason that is never, ever delved into the whole SUPPRESS EMOTIONS thing is what makes you a *good guy* in the Lucas SW universe. I specify that because if you read or play expanded universe titles you'll run into shit like Jedi who are very obviously the bad guys while some still young and idealistic Sith is trying to save people and shit.

Though really when you get right down to it, the Jedi thing is just a simplified westernized version of certain fundamental concepts from eastern spiritual ideologies, I guess.

Sorry, that probably wandered.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7363 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, March 31st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jolee Bindo?


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, April 1st (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nice catch. I was thinking of some more extreme examples though, like Jedi Masters in the Clone Wars series telling people to get over being sad about close friends or apprentices dying.

In Bindo's defense, he was wandering around with that asshole Revan. Who in turn was basically a puppet of the Sith Emperor and never realized it.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7363 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, April 2nd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my estimation, for the Jedi it was less about rugsweeping or ignoring the feelings and more about having processed them ahead of time. As in, they inherently recognize that people they know are one day going to die....it's almost like they skip all the other steps of healing from pain....they are just in a permanent state of acceptance. It does come off a little cold, and there are still some aspects where the line gets blurry between Sith and Jedi. I mean, Obi-wan letting Vader kill him is one of the most passively 'accepting' things I can remember happening, but there're lots of other scenarios where the Jedi fight against their fate as opposed to accepting it. I get the vibe that I haven't read as much of the EU stuff as you, but I've read a decent amount.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, April 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Opinions on this would be appreciated. Do you feel that a lack of belief in god of some sort excludes the possibility of an afterlife? How about a soul?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9404 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, April 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you feel that a lack of belief in god of some sort excludes the possibility of an afterlife?

So I read in here sometimes, but I don't ever feel like I have anything really good to contribute. I'm at best a waffling agnostic. I went to Jewish preschool, Catholic grade school, attended Presbyterian church by choice as a teenager... and with all that I still feel in the core of my being that no human has the actual capacity to understand our origins or the big picture.

I do care about spiritual things, but I don't have lot of personal answers to offer. I like prayer, but I'm not sure what it means, or if it means anything at all. My definition of "God" resembles a paragraph out of a physics textbook. I believe in a shared energy, but I can't in good conscience subscribe to organized religion. I want to get my daughter baptized Episcopalian because it runs in my family, but I can't make the commitment that the church wants me to because I simply don't believe a lot of the foundation. I love the message that many religions spread about doing right by others, and encouraging the community to take care of each other. I just have to draw the line at faith.

I think about your question a lot, SisterMilkshake. I've been reading a lot of Brian Green, and right now I feel pretty solid about the concept of infinite universes and infinite realities. I think that this human experience is more of an appendage to existence than the beginning or end of it. Whereas when I die Jrazz the person will cease to exist, it makes sense to me that my energy, as well as my physical components will reinvest in the big picture in some way that I can't yet define or picture. Maybe it's heaven. Maybe I'm a ladybug on a planet that's purple with three orange suns fifty billion years from now. My entire background, both religious and scientific, tells me that this isn't the end of the stop at all. That thought brings me peace.


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16412 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, April 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great questions, Sister. As an agnostic who grew up in a devout and rigid Christian household, there will always be a part of me that wants to believe in an afterlife and a soul. At times I wish I could turn to religion, but I can't change my beliefs because of what I want. On the other hand, no one can disprove to me that there is an afterlife and a soul. Until someone disproves that beyond a shadow of a doubt, I will hold on to the hope that I have that there is an afterlife and a soul. For me, personally, sometimes holding on to hope is the best I can do. Some folks would argue that happiness is the opposite of despair. I tend to believe that hope is the opposite of despair. That's what I hold on to when it comes to these topics.

Posts: 6233 | Registered: Dec 2010
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, April 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even though my post was 10 minutes after yours, I totally cross posted there with you, Razz! Took me awhile to respond because I was typing my response and making pancakes at the same time.

I like your use of the word "peace" in your response. Peace is something I've been trying to bring more and more into my life. That's something I need to actively focus on a bit more, I think.


Posts: 6233 | Registered: Dec 2010
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, April 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't answer for anyone else, but for me I do not believe in a deity nor any kind of supernatural afterlife , nor a soul in any form as traditionally conceived.

I understand that I'm matter, and the "stuff" I'm physically composed will return to the universe at the subatomic level. I do not believe that my consciousness will survive after my brain is dead, in any form whatsoever. So...that's where I stand on that.

Like Jrazz said, I can admire the good works that people do in the name of their faith, but I credit it more to their individual character than their piousness.

I go to a discussion group/coffee meet-up every two weeks with a group of about 10 atheists/agnostics from my area, and it's a pretty diverse set of opinions, but it's nice to have that base understanding of one another from the jump.


"The thing that always seems to be shocking to wayward wives is the simple fact that the man you choose to reconcile with is not the same man you cheated on." - a friend.

Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
catlover50
♀ Member
Member # 37154
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, April 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My beliefs are similar to Ascendent's. And I am completely at peace with that. I try to live my life fully and with minimal regrets. I try not to put off experiencing adventure and joy till "the future" and make it a point as much as possible to express love. For me, for now, that's enough.

On that note, stuck on a runway coming back from the Master's golf tournament. Plane sucks, tournament was awesome!



Dday -9/24/2012
Reconciling

Posts: 1710 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: northeast
Want2help
♀ Member
Member # 20547
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, April 13th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I understand that I'm matter, and the "stuff" I'm physically composed will return to the universe at the subatomic level. I do not believe that my consciousness will survive after my brain is dead, in any form whatsoever. So...that's where I stand on that.

I second that. It never bothered me, even after losing a parent, until my daughter was born. Now it makes me incredibly sad. I would love to have the comfort of believing in an afterlife, where I will one day spend eternity with her and my FWH.

Also, how did I never notice this board before? I am so happy to know this is here!


BS- me.
FWS- him.
DDay 6/07 (immediately separated)
RDay 8/07
Surprise OC born 3/08 (NC)
7 years into successful R.
"That which can be destroyed by truth should be." -P. C. Hodgell

Posts: 2158 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: PNW
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, April 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my estimation, for the Jedi it was less about rugsweeping or ignoring the feelings and more about having processed them ahead of time. As in, they inherently recognize that people they know are one day going to die....it's almost like they skip all the other steps of healing from pain....they are just in a permanent state of acceptance. It does come off a little cold, and there are still some aspects where the line gets blurry between Sith and Jedi. I mean, Obi-wan letting Vader kill him is one of the most passively 'accepting' things I can remember happening, but there're lots of other scenarios where the Jedi fight against their fate as opposed to accepting it. I get the vibe that I haven't read as much of the EU stuff as you, but I've read a decent amount.

I know this goes back a couple weeks now but I just spotted it, sorry.

You're right, and that's how I always felt it ought to work. Even in the Clone Wars series they did recently, they did some pretty cold shit. At one point the two padawans are trapped beneath a collapsed building and the episode is around Anakin refusing to just let it go while the other Master is telling him he has to. I thought it was a pretty good demonstration that being at peace with shit like that can be a detriment - as in letting go immediately, or never being attached enough in the first place meant that lack of connection could be lethal indifference.

wrt Vader vs. Kenobi, Kenobi knew he was gonna become a force ghost so I think it was less about acceptance of his fate there and more about his moving into a different place that he felt was better suited to what he was planning.

Unrelated, we just watched the last episode of Clone Wars. There was a brief discussion between Yoda and Darth Bane, which wasn't all that amazing but I got a kick out of the two characters having a chat.

Opinions on this would be appreciated. Do you feel that a lack of belief in god of some sort excludes the possibility of an afterlife? How about a soul?

I guess that depends on the definition of life and awareness.

I can't see how a lack of belief in gods or souls would exclude the possibility of a continued, albeit altered state of consciousness.

With the knowledge currently available though, I am with Ascendant. We go back to being the stuff stars are made of.


eta:

Also, this is some crazy cool shit:

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/ed7ed0f304a3

[This message edited by StillGoing at 5:10 PM, April 14th (Monday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7363 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Jrazz
♀ Guide
Member # 31349
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, April 14th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would love to have the comfort of believing in an afterlife, where I will one day spend eternity with her and my FWH.

Here's what I think. If you count yourself as your collection of memories, you're probably out of luck for a personality-specific afterlife.

The thing is, weren't we all once sharing a marble-sized ball of space - just before the big bang? We're comprised more of space than of matter, and if you follow widely accepted scientific views of the cosmos, we were all shoulder to shoulder bajillions of years ago. Your atoms, your daughter's, your FWH's - they were all closer than you are right at this moment. So, even if we don't reincarnate as ourselves or something similar, there was likely a point in time where you were close - and there's no reason why it can't happen again.

Where I'm at right now with reading and mulling, I have a hard time believing that anything in this existence is a one shot deal. Here's the thing - where did matter come from? There are three possibilities to the origin - it was either created, it was there all along (infinite universe) or it doesn't exist at all. My fingers and keyboard are proving to you right now that SOMETHING exists, so the nothing part of the equation doesn't add up. You're posting in this thread because you reject the idea of a divine creator, so that's out. What's left? It's always been here, which also means it always will.

We're built like humans with senses and emotions and memories, but our components can take up an array of physical iterations. If there's an infinite amount of iterations available to all matter, it stands to reason that we can occur again and again and again, we'll just be starting from scratch each time. Therefore, if you call anything that happens after we die an afterlife, this idea means that you DO get to be with them again and again. (It also means that at some point you're a clown made out of candy... but we don't have to go there now. )

[This message edited by Jrazz at 8:04 PM, April 14th (Monday)]


We are what we repeatedly do, excellence, then is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

Posts: 16412 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: California
Topic Posts: 617
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31

Return to Forum: I Can Relate Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.