I agree with you. I think that a WS who abandons a spouse, especially when there are children involved, has issues of character that were present all along. As long as they get what they need out of being married, everything is, as my FWW used to say, "honky dorey" for them.
When things get rough, the rubber meets the road. That's when the design flaws start to show.
Who you're spouse really is, unfortunately, is not clear until the stress in a marriage starts to show.
Unfortunately, many BSs were not really good judges of character, either before or during their marriages.
I know I was in denial for a very long time. Of course, my life experience hadn't been sufficient to make me less than naively trusting.
[This message edited by queequeg at 10:17 AM, October 14th (Sunday)]
He would go through my private writings while I was at work and confront me about them later. Personal stuff. Poems, short stories, journal entries. He read all of it and even went so far as to tell me that he didn't want me to write anymore. A couple years ago I wrote a short story about a couple going through the pain of infidelity, just because I felt like it. He found it, read it, and had a cow. He accused me of thinking about cheating. One thing he failed to notice is that the story was written from the perspective of the BS.
If I hadn't been so determined to make our family work and prove to him that I was "worthy", I would have paid heed to the massive red flags flapping like battle standards all over our relationship.
Character flaw? In reference to STBX, I would call that an understatement. For six years he kept up the relentless mantra, "I love you, Eumenides. You're beautiful and I don't want anyone else to have you. You've always been the one I've wanted. I wanted you for years and you'll always be mine." The one thing he forgot to add was that *I* had to be his and pure and good, while he could screw anything female that moved while my back was turned.
When you have lies pounded into your head over and over, you start to believe them, no matter what their actions really say. So the fact that he has left without a backward glance come as no surprise to me. He's depraved. He's selfish. He's a monster and he always has been.
My only missteps were; 1. Listening to lies because I didn't want to see the painful truth, 2. Letting it go on this long, 3. Being capable of love beyond all reason and condition.
He has a lot more against him than I do, that's for sure. My current situation will not be my permanent situation. Finances, cars, houses, and other material things shift always. Jobs come and go. Pain lessens. But he has jarring errors in his personality that he refuses to acknowledge and blames on others. He is miserable, whether he realises it or not. He can't buy a new personality, and he can't buy a soul. His problems are so, so much worse than any of mine.
[This message edited by Eumenides at 12:52 AM, October 17th (Wednesday)]
Final D-Day: August 2007.
Divorce finalized: 6-16-09
Is there something special about the "mojo" of WSs who leave for the OP compared to
The "mojo" is the arrogance & complete hubris of the WS; that because OP doesn't ask or require anything too hard from the WS, that they can make a better life for themselves someplace else with someone else. This is called the "greener grass effect".
To this, all Betrayed spouses need to say "Bye Bye and I'll be long gone before I have a chance to say I TOLD YOU SO."
I'm not sure that denial is a character flaw. It is an unconscious coping mechanism meant to protect you from painful situations.
I also exhibited denial when my FWW was distancing from me during her extended A.
I kept asking what was wrong, but she never said what was bothering her.
Denial is not a useful response, but I'm not sure it is a character flaw.
When someone makes a conscious decision to cheat and kick their spouse aside, well that is a conscious, calculated, and repeated behavior.
That represents character.
I take responsibility for at least 50% of the problems in my past marriage, but that is as far as I can go.
When someone brings a problem to my attention, I can try to fix it.
When I make a promise, I keep it.
[This message edited by queequeg at 4:34 PM, October 18th (Thursday)]
I look at it this way, my X is the kind of guy who would cheat on his wife and abandon her and his two small children to shack up with a piece of ass. LMT is the type of woman who is willing to eff another woman's husband and shack up with him after only 6 months and have a child with him before his divorce was final.
They are PERFECT for each other!
Here's the weird thing I mean by mojo.
A wife is cheating on her husband, with some low life renting a cheap loft in lower Manhattan.
The guy knows she's married and cheating, but he stays with her knowing she is going home to sleep with her husband.
Then he is willing to marry her knowing that she cheated on her husband and walked out on him.
I mean that to me is a weird attraction, but maybe I'm not a worldly guy.
I don't think denial is a character flaw at all! I'm sorry that I miscommunicated. I think denial is a natural defense mechanism. It is so strong, in fact, that people subjected to traumatic experiences can suppress the memories of it for years or, in more drastic cases of child abuse, even develop multiple personalities, some of which have no knowledge of the abuse. No one should ever be ashamed of having experienced denail. It is just your own psyche seeking to protect you. Every person alives experiences it to some degree in some situation, though not all experience it to the degree that some BS do because not all ever have to face that particularly trying circumstance. Otherwise, they probably would for a period of time as well. When you are ready to face the truth, you do. I experienced denial with my own husband's cyber cheating. I experienced denial about other things too in my life, some very traumatic. I am no stranger to it and I am not ashamed of it. Nor, as I said, is it my opinion that anyone should be. It is NOT a character flaw. It IS a human characteristic which we all share. I am so sorry that you felt I termed it a flaw. Please know that I don't.
He works at a coffee shop in the town where my mom lives. On a recent visit, I went to "study" for the national registry paramedic test. Imagine his surprise when I casually set down my study book on the counter as I ordered my drink.
I'm not so far away from applying to medical school, and he's still right where he was when we were dating 3 years ago.
[This message edited by cheatedonbyhim at 8:06 PM, October 21st (Sunday)]
It's a very complicated and difficult aspect of humans to understand. Only each individual can decide where and how it fits into their own situation. Was their own WS in denial of some sort? Were there perhaps addiction issues, personality or other mental disorders, childhood issues? No one can say but those in the situation. I do think that perhaps those closest TO the situation (me included) are almost universally the least objective. But again, denial is part of the human condition and certainly comes into play many times in many aspects of our lives and the lives of all we know. Why is it important to perhaps understand where denial may have come into play with the WS? Or, as in the case of my son, the addict? Because anger, resentment and hatred mixed with love is a toxic potion that consumes only the person who carries it around with them.
Well, I think that at least with a spouse, even a longterm spouse, it is easier perhaps to let the anger do its job and help you detach and no longer love. You read these boards for a while and you see that process occur. A parent, of course, always loves and always hurts. I wish there was a way for people, BS or hurt parents like me, to just love without hurt. I guess that's the real challenge for US, not for those we love.
I thank the creator daily that I am no longer in such a horrid place.
It must really suck to be them.
I don't date guys who aren't worth much, so yes, he did have some redeeming characteristics. He was nice to me (at first), calm, well-spoken, and intelligent. It was disappointing to see him spiral down the drug path, and I know his parents were disappointed, too. They're both volunteer EMTs and I think they were hoping I was going to be the one to pull him out of the gutter. I just didn't have the strength to wait that long to do it, and I don't think he had or has the desire to make anything of himself.
I do feel sorry for him, because I know when I finish medical school, he's still going to be in the same place. I did for a tiny second feel guilty about flaunting my success as a premed... but only for a second. I remembered the times he told me I was stupid for misspelling a word or making a typo in a 10 page neuropsychology paper; I think he was threatened by the fact that I'm s-m-a-r-t.
[This message edited by cheatedonbyhim at 10:52 PM, October 22nd (Monday)]
I often wonder how my FWW and her dickwad AP,now husband, live together with the memory of what they did as their courting experience.
I wonder how they remember the early morning I called where she was staying after she moved out without mentioning the A, and I asked for dickwad by name.
She put him on the phone!
I asked him how he liked f****ing my wife, and closed down.
Hope they always have that as a cherished memory of their "dating" days.
I take 50% of the responsibility for poor communication and other problems in the M.
I never stopped loving her.
I am not responsible for her affair, and her refusal to reconcile.
I am proud of my new marriage in which I met my SINGLE wife after I was divorced, and courted her honestly and openly as a SINGLE man.
I have also tried to deal with any personal issues that were shortcomings in my first marriage, especially ability to communicate better.
I would have done that for and with FWW, given the chance.
[This message edited by queequeg at 2:56 PM, October 24th (Wednesday)]
Well quee, there it is in a nutshell. You often wonder. You will get NO answers. The fact of the matter is they might be very well able to live with themselves, be happy with their memories, and never give another thought to all you wonder about. You ofen wonder. You then keep yourself tied to her choices. They are not and were not your choices. Yes, I get that. You would have worked on the marriage but she didn't want to. Got that. So all this wondering. What's it doing for you? She done you wrong, there's no doubt about it. But now she's gone on with her life. And you know what? In the real world, sometimes it works out. Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it does. Do you see you've GOT to stop tying your sense of self to what SHE chose, what THEY are doing, how SHE is, and so forth? You're still clinging to the anger that comes with being treated unjustly and not seeing any justice for those who treated you that way. Well quee, everyone's got their own story. You've got to write your own. STOP WONDERING. It doesn't matter! It's no longer relevant to YOUR life. Look AHEAD to your future! Wondering about her keeps you in the PAST. And please to not wait wait wait for "karma" (I hate how that term is used here) or "justice" to get them because it may not. And you know what? You need to get to the place where YOU DON'T CARE EITHER WAY. That's freedom. That's growth. Can you hear what I'm saying?