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User Topic: Multiple Affairs
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks wh5...you are right...I know there is nothing that can really make up for it.

I am glad FWH is working so hard to change...I know that is what I need to focus on...its just so hard to get over the hurt of all those years -

Sometimes I go over to the Long term affairs forum...for some reason I can relate to alot of what is said over there..wish we could get more participation on this topic.


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cleo, I may be the top dog in sheer #s here and I probably should have more input, but I feel more at home in LTA because I found out about all of them at the same time. It was like he had one long affair and a bunch of little ones all in the same time period. Plus I found out about one while we were engaged at the same time.

If I had just the multiples to deal with, since they were prostitutes or anonymous ONS, I would probably be hanging in the SA thread.

Maybe what I don't want to think about is that if there were so many over so long that I DO know about, maybe there were more all along and since that was his "worst" period, he's lumped them all into that time period too. I wonder that especially since he would never confirm the start or end dates. I only have motel receipts from a 7 year period.



Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another thing is, our WS's were looking from the same thing from each of their AP's. They weren't getting it, but that didn't keep them from trying! Persistant if nothing else

In our case at least, my wife has finally found what she was looking for from the various OM. She was just looking in the wrong places before. It was inside her the whole time


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35300 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
toonice
♂ Member
Member # 19862
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my case, the way I see it now, after many discussions with my MC, and reading, and some discussions with fWW;

fWW learned, at an early age (14?), to trade sex for security and attention. She didn't get either from her parents. Her mother was emotionally devastated by her cheating husband, and when she remarried, the relationship was about her and her new H, not about her kids.

What made things worse is that fWW's older sister was closer to her mom, and her mom did pay attention to, and care for fWW's older sister, and always took her side in conflicts. It is as if fWW's mother took out her pain from losing her 1st H on her second daughter, who she gave birth to right as her H's A was in full-swing. We speculate (don't know, because we haven't discussed this with fWW's mother) may have never actually bonded with fWW as an infant. fWW was practically raised by her grandparents for the first 6 years, mainly by her grandfather, because her grandmother is another whole warehouse of dysfunction; having been a resident of Germany when WWII ended, having endured the chaos and destruction, having had her house and flower shop bombed, having lost her first husband on the Eastern front. (disappeared - never found his body).

fWW does not remember any sexual abuse as a child. But this is how she characterized her teenage relationships from age 14 up. Sex traded for attention and security.

She seeks attention obsessively. Gets very depressed when she does not get it. She has always been a flirt; lives the life of an extrovert, but frankly, is an introvert, by nature.

I think that this is how she got into trouble in her first marriage. She uses the excuse that she wanted to get pregnant, and she and her 1st H could not succeed, so she looked for other "donors" - but when she found me, she fell in love. (this is the story as she relates it).

Oh - I was happy to give her attention.

And when that attention tapered off; (like, if I had to actually go to work?) she started looking elsewhere. I don't think she actively pursued A's, but she pursues risky situations, or when she has found herself in risky situations, she has not reacted to protect herself.

I think this is how she could have been raped twice. When she was raped, she returned to the attacker, and traded sex for security; as is common with rape victims.

Another effect of being ignored by her parents was that she also learned to be very self-sufficient, in terms of making an income, or taking care of necessities, dealing with problems. She worked full-time while in High School. She paid for her own books, her own clothes, her own car. She says she is very proud of this, but she also has a huge amount of resentment over this. She has a very difficult time putting trust in anyone else.

So when she was raped, she "dealt with it on her own". (and RESENTED the people who she should have trusted; her family, her husband).

The way she describes her first time with her first boyfriend, at 14, it also sounds like rape to me. And, of course, her reaction was to blame herself, and not tell anyone.

She has a long way to go in IC.


Stronger than reason, stronger than lies, the only truth I know, is the look in your eyes.
BH(42) FWW(41; 8+ OM/OW, 5 year LTA)
M: 16yrs, 2 kids DS16, DD13. d-day 6/17/2008 (after 9 months of MC+gaslighting).

Posts: 4898 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: CA
Simple
♀ Member
Member # 18814
DOH!  Posted: 1:26 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy, I felt the same as you. My H had been cheating on me since we met it seems. In the 11 years I've known him, he had about 5 he had intercourse with, 6+ orals/make-out, around 2+ cybersex, he dated about 5 (while he was supposedly exclusively dating me or when we were married), he EA via online and e-mail to 20+ girls. Funny thing is some of these women considers him their "soulmate". Some of these women knew he was married some were told we were "separated" some were told he is single earning the amount of money I was...

I learned all of this last year in one fell swoop, when I asked him about the porn and e-mails with his friend and found the $$ spent on some site. He confessed all then as our marriage was going crap and I told him I can't do it anymore and that I'll leave.

Would I have married him knowing what I know now? probably not. He admitted to doing everything he could (lie to me and manipulate me, +mind games) to ensure I marry him and stay married to him.

Out of all those 11 years for some reason he kept wanting me and to be with me. Whereas he gets tired of them all and wants someone new every time even if the girl(s) don't mind him screwing them and other people at the same time.

So I've not much concern about the past women, as he always wanted someone new with the exception of me. I was his back-up lady I guess. Someone he can show his friends and family.

I'm the only one he said "I love you" to apparently. Hence why I am no competition to the other girls, he says. I don't want to compete with them anyway. They were all immature, selfish, and broken like him.

I'm just glad he is becoming the man I thought I married and dated. Just sucks that I don't feel like the woman he married anymore. That innocent and feisty girl is gone. I'm just trying so hard to not be bitter and wallow in the mud of depression. I can be happy and I know it, I just felt like I don't want to choose to be.

Wifehad5 is right on one thing though, the root cause of all this is one and these multiple affairs can be lumped as one.

That's the only way to keep us people of these multiple A's sane I think. Especially when things like "WTF did I do to deserve this" keeps popping in our minds.

I rambled... sorry


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was his back-up lady I guess. Someone he can show his friends and family.

I'm slowly finding out that in reality, we ARE the only ones these people could love. It's not just about being "presentable" although their choices of partners is questionable.

Its about them never revealing anything to anyone, except us. For a time they felt safe with us. And when they'd stray, kept running BACK to us... why? Because we were their comfort, what kept them going. Can you imagine being in that life and NEVER having a soft place to land?

Would I have married him if I knew what was the truth about him? Yes. I knew he was broken when I married him. I somehow thought that true love would fix all. I forgave him all the previous "others" when we were dating, because he kept dropping all of them, they never lasted more than a few "dates". I came to realize he saw them because he was becoming too attached to me. I was "it" and that scared the hell out of him, having never felt "it" before.

If I'd know about the girl during our engagment, no, I probably would have stopped or at least postponed the wedding. I am dumbfounded now that I bought into the "I didn't hear the phone ring" excuses.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
toonice
♂ Member
Member # 19862
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wifehad5 is right on one thing though, the root cause of all this is one and these multiple affairs can be lumped as one.

This is the one shred of sanity I hold on to. She has different excuses for all of them, including rapes, (and I believe her, that these were rapes, as she says).

Part of my problem is that it is very un-PC to blame a rape victim when they get into a situation that leads to a rape.

The reality of the situation is, it's not about blame. The blame/punishment model of behavior is broken from the getgo.

It's about choices and consequences.

My fWW has every right to expect to be able to talk to a man, rebuff his advances, and say no, and even struggle, kick, and bite, and expect to NOT be violated. That is 100% the rapists fault. His actions before the rape also incriminate him.

It's about figuring out what she can do next time to prevent this from happening again in the future. It happened twice in the past.

And that means getting to the root of the problem, which is the common cause between all of the A's.

If the common cause is a personality flaw, or bad learned behaviors, the ONLY way to get someone to acknowledge their problem and work on fixing it, is to show them a neutral picture of how much harm it has caused THEM. When they realize that it was counterproductive to begin with, only then will they understand the effort needed to fix it.

If you go out and call them a bad person, or attack them, their broken coping mechanisms for pain, blame, and guilt will come into play, and they'll block it out, avoid, shift blame, and get nowhere in treatment.


Stronger than reason, stronger than lies, the only truth I know, is the look in your eyes.
BH(42) FWW(41; 8+ OM/OW, 5 year LTA)
M: 16yrs, 2 kids DS16, DD13. d-day 6/17/2008 (after 9 months of MC+gaslighting).

Posts: 4898 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: CA
Simple
♀ Member
Member # 18814
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For a time they felt safe with us. And when they'd stray, kept running BACK to us... why? Because we were their comfort, what kept them going. Can you imagine being in that life and NEVER having a soft place to land?

That is true. I was always there for him and can always be counted on to care.

I was still willing to marry him when I thought he was dating other women (which he had admitted during our dating). However I would not have married him knowing just how screwed up he was and knowing the psychological mind games he played on me. I would've waited until he fixed himself and then I would've married him.

However, it's moot point. I am married to him now and we have a 2 year old. I can't just run away now and stop being caring and responsible.

I want to be able to meet my maker with head high and eyes looking straight at him. I'd let God choose who he thinks I deserve in the next life. For now, I have to take this as a test I need to pass for my own sanity. My soul isn't worth hardening my heart to someone obviously looking for forgiveness.

If the common cause is a personality flaw, or bad learned behaviors, the ONLY way to get someone to acknowledge their problem and work on fixing it, is to show them a neutral picture of how much harm it has caused THEM. When they realize that it was counterproductive to begin with, only then will they understand the effort needed to fix it.

This is exactly what happened and what he learned pretty much by himself. Even though I have told him since we were dating these concepts (selfishness, taking for granted, making your spouse the priority), he never "got" it. He's the type to learn the hard way. Whereas I have seen the hard way in my parents which made me malleable to learning the easy way and do what was right.

His selfishness, his near-sightedness made him think that he was the "poor guy" and used that to justify getting what he needed from other women. He did not saw me as someone who isn't getting what she needs too, his fidelity (which was pretty much my only requirement in a husband besides love).

He actually learned a little bit more than I did. He told me, "when it comes to it, the more I decide to give you what you need and what you want, the more I get what I need and what I want. So I learned to stop asking you to give me what I want as I get that anyway if all I do is think about what I can do for you."


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


He actually learned a little bit more than I did. He told me, "when it comes to it, the more I decide to give you what you need and what you want, the more I get what I need and what I want. So I learned to stop asking you to give me what I want as I get that anyway if all I do is think about what I can do for you."

Simple....my FWS also learned a similiar lesson....that "working" on our marriage was not really work at all...and that he actually enjoyed spending time doing things with me once he was committed to the marriage and pulled his head out of his ass.

The whole concept of reaping what you sow is so true....


I never really thought of lumping all the As into one and dealing with it that way.
I agree that ws was searching for the same thing in all of them....for him it was ego stroking and excitement.


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If the common cause is a personality flaw, or bad learned behaviors, the ONLY way to get someone to acknowledge their problem and work on fixing it, is to show them a neutral picture of how much harm it has caused THEM. When they realize that it was counterproductive to begin with, only then will they understand the effort needed to fix it.


Toonice.......I don't know if this is what you mean, abut I did this with my FWH - I took some of the emails he sent one of the OWs and made him read them in front of me...

In his mind he had convinced himself that the women were pursuing him....but when he read the emails, he was shocked and embarrased that he was the one doing the pursuing.

That was a real turning point for him....when he realized what a sleaze he had been and saw a picture of himself in his own words.


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
cantbeliveit
♀ New Member
Member # 20440
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was wondering if you could help me? I read your posts, and can relate to quite a bit. We have 2 children already, but recently got pregnant, thinking that it could help our failing marriage. I lost the baby a month ago, and just 2 days ago I found out about all of the affairs, 5 over the past 7 years. I am on antidepressants now, I have to be honest I do not blame my huband 100%, I was a very shitty wife for 7 years, and even before, but it got much worse after the children. We did not recognize that I was depressed and we now realize since on medication that I am so much better. Now that being said, I do blame him for his actions. He has admitted guilt, remorse and that it was wrong. He says that now I am on medication and everything is out in the open we can hope ot have a open honest relationship. I am scared, and I can't seem to forget or wonder about so many things that went on.
I could use some support and how to cope. I have decided to forgive, but could really use some words of wisom, to help me deal. I forgot to mention that we have been married almost 14 years.

Posts: 5 | Registered: Jul 2008
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((cantbeliveit)))

Welcome

Sorry for the loss of your baby. I know how much that can hurt.

So you weren't the perfect wife. I'm sure he wasn't the perfect husband. This is not a reason for him to cheat. If he was that unhappy, he could have asked for a divorce. From here on out you can vow to be a better wife. Is he capable of being a better husband? It's great that he feels bad. Has he figured out they he did it yet?


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35300 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
time2grow up
♂ New Member
Member # 17565
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

okay, I am not a big poster and not the most avid reader but I saw a thread over in WS and it pointed this direction. I am the WS with multiple A's. That I own! I have been married for 10 years and for most of it, I have looked to others for validation. BS gave me the validation wholeheartedly without reservation. True love? That is still an area I struggle in with an immature emotional level.

The need for validation is strong with me. I love attention and having fun. Those qualities are not an issue until boundaries are crossed.

So if I can answer any direct questions I will do my best.


Me WS - 43
Wife BS - 39
Married - 10 years

Posts: 11 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: ks
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks time. I think the biggest "fear" overhanging multiple A partners is the "how long until the next one".

Did you only confess after being caught?

Did your spouse have suspicions?

Why is this time different?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
onceinlove
♀ Member
Member # 19874
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

can'tbelieveit, I am in the same boat. On June 17, WH came clean about six affairs, including a 2.5 year affair, in the last six years. I can't tell you how devastating this is. I wasn't depressed before but I am now.

WH is completely remorseful and accepts 100% responsibility for his actions and is going to AA & SLAA and getting IC.

He is letting me grieve and comforting me in the ways I ask him to but it's such a blow. I mean, the last six years were a lie. What I thought was the truth wasn't.

How do you get over all the crappy things the WS said and did while they were in the fog? Like bitching at me because I'm not making a huge salary anymore while he's giving my money to the AP who is a bankrupt skank who can't make rent?

He apologizes again and again and swears he's going to make things different and better for me. I'm having real trouble getting past the fact that the man I trusted turned out to be a pathological liar. Why should I believe him now?

On D-Day, I made him graph his affairs so I could see how they elapsed over time. There were gaps. How do I know that I'm not just in one of the gaps? I have no idea how I will ever trust him again.

I'm only six weeks out so maybe this is normal.

Normal or not, it really sucks.


Him: WH 48
Me:BS 48
M: 17 years
D-Day: June 17, 2008
WH confessed to 6 APs over 6 yrs, including 2 LTAs; now in SA recovery--approaching 2.5 years of sobriety
Status: R


Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Southeast US
time2grow up
♂ New Member
Member # 17565
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, July 30th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Weepy. I do understand the fear that the WS feels. Weird thing is, as I am coming out of the fog, I have the same fear. I want to make sure it never happens again. Now I don't know the total feeling of betrayal that the BS feels and I am not saying I do with the above statement.

Did you only confess after being caught?
Yes i did only after getting caught with what I got caught with. It took me along time to admit to the rest. Always hoping the minimal admission was enough and we could move forward. Almost like sweeping under the rug. Never successful as long as the lies are still there.

Did your spouse have suspicions?
BS has said that she didn't. Another PA happened during MC after I asked her for a divorce. She had a feeling I was not involved in the marriage through my consistent pulling away but not to that level.

Why is this time different?
Different in that I am seeing myself in a different light in IC and seeing the characteristics of myself that lead to those situations that make an A possible for me. I am also checking into the SA issues. Think there is merit in that as well. But to say it is different to me sounds wrong. That person the was involved in the A is still in me. The boundaries that I build around that person with the BS is the only way that it will be different. The desire to make the changes is what will make it different.


Me WS - 43
Wife BS - 39
Married - 10 years

Posts: 11 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: ks
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((cantbeliveit)))

I am so sorry about the loss of your baby, I would think finding out about the As so soon after would be almost unbearable, grief heaped upon grief.

My best advice would be to seek marital and individual counselling. That is what has helped us beyond measure to rebuild our marriage.

As far as getting past thinking and wondering about the As, everyone says time...which I believe is true to some extent. I don't feel the pain as sharply now, but it is still there everyday. I guess at some point you come to an acceptance of that.

You have said you are addressing your depression and are on meds, but your WS
needs to address why he felt it was ok to cheat, even if you were a less than stellar partner.

Obviously, I still struggle, so I don't know if I have great advice for you, but the things that have helped me are spiritual counseling and prayer, IC & MC and talking it out here.

You are in my prayers...


[This message edited by cleo at 9:35 AM, July 31st (Thursday)]


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

time2grow up - thanks so much for coming over to give us input....really, really appreciate that!

You sound so much like my FWH....the need for validation, the immaturity, the trickle truth, ect.

I think that there is definately a differant dynamic at work in WS that that cheat repeatedly. My FWS talks about a feeling of intitlement....

One thing he did that really helped him was doing the 12-Step program - this helped him to really dig deep and look at himself and why he did the things he did. I know he would recommend it highly.


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, anyone else feel like they are "owed" something for all the years of pain and betrayal. Knowing that it can never be made up, but still having that feeling of being owed.

I think this is an issue that weighs heavily on me. Probably is worse because for many years my FWH was emotionally abusive and heaped all the home and child rearing responsibilites on me while he had his fun.

My FWH is really working to change, and I hate feeling like there is this imbalance in the relationship- a debt to be paid....but I just can't help it.

Boy, do I have a long way to go in my Christian walk.

2 X 4s welcome.


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, July 31st (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cleo, I can't respond right now, but a big, fat "YES" to your feeling "owed". Resentment over so many things.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
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