I don't think, without the PA finally happening, that he would've taken real ownership of the destructiveness of the online As. It's only the bottoming-out with a PA that showed him that he'd really been going downhill all those years, and the online As were what was sending him down. If I'd found out about the online stuff before the PA began, I don't think anything productive could've come out of a confrontation. I could've talked till I was blue in the face and he would've settled further into denial and never recognized and owned what he was doing. He might've stopped, or he might've just gone underground with it, but he wouldn't have admitted to himself or me he'd done anything wrong, even though he did go to some lengths to hide what he was doing online and on the phone with those women. I never suspected at all, but he was taking basic precautions (calling cards, waiting till he knew I was asleep, etc.) to hide his activities.
One sort of alarming thing to me still, though, is...okay. Ever seen Bill Cosby Himself? Where he talks about trying to keep the children from pushing their mother so far that a beating has to happen? And they respond, Oh father. You are kind, and we appreciate your concern, but you do not understand; we cannot rest, until we have had our beating! I have the same sort of "got to get it out of your system" feeling about the online As. So there's part of me that doesn't trust that, should the opportunity to meet up with a former online AP should occur IRL, that he wouldn't take the opportunity. The main AP is (to my knowledge) no longer able to contact him (it was through an online game he no longer plays). Several of the others still could, but this one would have to remember him and email him. But if she was coming through our area again and let him know it, I don't know that he'd turn her down. She ended up backing out of the last planned RL meeting, and he was pissed that she stood him up. I don't know that he's gotten the online APs out of his system, really. And I'm gone a lot, so he has plenty of opportunity. I'd never know.
[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 8:57 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]
I suggested this topic, since I am a BS whose H had and long-term EA, online, and online sexual interaction with many other women.
If it's okay with the mods, I have absolutely no problem with the topic being open to both BS's and WS's alike. I never intended it to be just for BS's.
In fact, I would love to hear some thoughts from WS's who have also had online affairs. It would greatly help me by giving me some insight into what's going on in my husband's mind and heart.
I'm sure it would help others, too. So, Inch, please keep posting.
Mods, OK with you? I didn't mean for this to be for BS's only.
Better off I sparkle on my own ~ Anna Nalick
If the question of whether he is still engaging in cyberaffairs troubles you enough, you can install a keylogger on his computer to check and find out. This is something that the Investigative forum could help you with if you needed it.
I understand completely if this is not something that you want to be doing or feel a need to be doing at this time. But when I see you saying "I'd never know", I just want to make sure you know that in most cases, that's not true.
It's more the idea I have that he would be drawn toward it if one of them *did* show back up than concern that they actually will. It's unlikely that they would.
When I say "I'd never know" I mean...well, the online person who stood him up has our home phone number. She called him all the time. I travel on business and am gone for up to two weeks at a time. If she *did* come through our area again and called and suggested making up for standing him up back in the day, I'm not sure what he'd do, and I would never know. I'm not sure it's out of his system. I'm not sure that he's had his beating about that, and thus not sure he can rest.
I could re-enable SpecterSoft, but..okay, this is an Everquest/Everquest 2 thing. And SpecterSoft does not keylog what transpires in EQ. EQ Chat Client, yes. EQ/2 the games, no. The screencaps are what I have to use for those. That's how I caught him trying to hook back up with one of them *after* D-day #1, and it was on the chat client that I caught him with the Primary Offender, she of the standing-him-up-in-Orlando incident. Just an inappropriate conversation, there. Anyway. Point is, screencaps are large. SpecterSoft doesn't retain them long enough for me to see what he was up to for the duration of one of my business trips. To avoid detection, even if I re-enabled it, all he'd have to do is just not do anything for the last 4-5 days before I return.
[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 11:39 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]
It sounds like what you have on the WH's computer right now is Spector from SpectorSoft. What might help more for the situation you describe is another one of their products, Eblaster. Eblaster only captures keystrokes, and I have seen it work effectively on a computer that is running EQ at the time. Eblaster also secretly emails regular reports on whatever activity it records on the computer it's installed on to an email address that you specify.
One of the disadvantages of Eblaster is that it wouldn't record what whoever was on the other end of the chat window in EQ was typing... that's where Spector's screen captures have an advantage. But Eblaster *will* capture both ends of a conversation in AIM, Yahoo Chat or a similar popular IM service. And with the emailed reports, you wouldn't have to wait until you got back to WH's computer to see what was going on... just look for the next Eblaster email.
He doesn't use any chat programs. If he was chatting, it would be in EQ2, or because (and this is the bigger concern) he'd decided to check back in on EQ1. We both have Station accounts, so even though we only play EQ2 now, we could play EQ1 if we wanted. If he checked back in on EQ1, I think we'd run into problems. It'd be the whole old guild thing again, etc.
[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 12:18 PM, April 5th (Thursday)]
"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."
My WH doesn't think it's an A unless you physically have intercourse.
i had 2 online ea's with the same woman..
hard thing is how to forgive yourself.. it is going to be a while before it can do that..
especially because during the second one my wife was on bedrest pregnant..
what a piece of shit i am
"life is short.. don't fuck it up"
I found out by accident when his "just fooling around" got "out of hand" and was no longer contained to the workplace which was the only place he ever used a computer and to his cell phone which had a plan that only included 200 free minutes.
Once it got "out of hand" it was relatively easy to monitor his activities for quite a while before I confronted him. Either he was incredibly lousy at covering things up or he just didn't care if I found out. That's what I tell him anyway...because I'd better not ever find out he thought I was too stupid to figure it out!
He says he is through with all of that and he hasn't given me any reason to doubt that but, like LadyV, I'm gone a lot (weeks at a time) so he has plenty of opportunity. With all of the technology available today, he could have gone deeper underground and I'd never know.
It is a surreal form of infidelity!
Multiple partners, intimacy, but no touching....
Yep, this is the club I need to join.
For a long time I just "sat in the tray, periodically being clicked on"
I think that having it be open to both sides of the equation will be helpful for all of us.
I found in some research on the subject of online infidelity the "ACE" acronym.
It helped explain a lot for me of the "how could you do this!"
I think online infidelity speaks boatloads about fear of intimacy. It is much easier to spill your soul in an email or IM box than it is to look a person in the eye and bare yourself in person.
It is a freaky world.
One thing that continues to bug me is that after D-day #1, I sat there and watch him continue to troll, via the spyware. The main online chick, an older lady from Atlanta (the one who had stood him up a few years before for a RL meeting in Orlando) was one of the people he continued to talk to after D-day #1. He continued to troll her. He continued to troll various others. So, while he established NC immediately after D-day #1 with the woman with whom he had a PA (who was not met online), NC was never established with any of these online women. As far as any of them know - particularly Gramma Atlanta - they're still great friends. Some of the others he *did* meet IRL, but he couldn't get them alone, because they were with their boyfriend and husband respectively. ALL of these women, though...the fact that he is not in contact with them is incidental. It's just because they haven't tried to contact him. So, he's in as much of an affair with Grandma Atlanta, in particular, as he ever was, from her point of view. It's not that it's over, it's that he moved from EQ1 to EQ2, and she didn't. SHE has no idea, because he continued their online affair *even after D-day #1* and never actually ended it.
So should Gramma come cruising through Florida again, she would have no reason not to give him a call, since she felt bad about standing him up the first time she was coming through, when she decided to not meet him at a motel and instead go meet a guy in Tampa. Nice, eh? Anyway. There's no reason why she wouldn't call here, again, except that she hasn't thought about it. No NC. So, what would he do if she called? If I was out of town, he'd have the baby, which, presumably, would stop him. I don't *think* he'd take our baby to go meet her. But if I was in town, he could always make up somewhere he had to be, and I'd never know.
With the benefit of hindsight I absolutely feel that it was cheating as soon as I started keeping my chats with him secret.
[This message edited by Fallen at 4:34 PM, April 6th (Friday)]
My EA was 95 % on line.
I just really feel like I am a hamster running on the wheel.. and I am ready to get off the wheel, and try running around in the hamster ball.. kinda like a free range chicken.