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User Topic: Cyber/Online Cheating
ladyvorkosigan
♀ Member
Member # 8283
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband cheated online for years before finally having a PA. He'd tried to set up a PA with online APs prior to meeting the OW with whom he had a PA. That woman he met in a RL setting, not online.

I don't think, without the PA finally happening, that he would've taken real ownership of the destructiveness of the online As. It's only the bottoming-out with a PA that showed him that he'd really been going downhill all those years, and the online As were what was sending him down. If I'd found out about the online stuff before the PA began, I don't think anything productive could've come out of a confrontation. I could've talked till I was blue in the face and he would've settled further into denial and never recognized and owned what he was doing. He might've stopped, or he might've just gone underground with it, but he wouldn't have admitted to himself or me he'd done anything wrong, even though he did go to some lengths to hide what he was doing online and on the phone with those women. I never suspected at all, but he was taking basic precautions (calling cards, waiting till he knew I was asleep, etc.) to hide his activities.

One sort of alarming thing to me still, though, is...okay. Ever seen Bill Cosby Himself? Where he talks about trying to keep the children from pushing their mother so far that a beating has to happen? And they respond, Oh father. You are kind, and we appreciate your concern, but you do not understand; we cannot rest, until we have had our beating! I have the same sort of "got to get it out of your system" feeling about the online As. So there's part of me that doesn't trust that, should the opportunity to meet up with a former online AP should occur IRL, that he wouldn't take the opportunity. The main AP is (to my knowledge) no longer able to contact him (it was through an online game he no longer plays). Several of the others still could, but this one would have to remember him and email him. But if she was coming through our area again and let him know it, I don't know that he'd turn her down. She ended up backing out of the last planned RL meeting, and he was pissed that she stood him up. I don't know that he's gotten the online APs out of his system, really. And I'm gone a lot, so he has plenty of opportunity. I'd never know.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 8:57 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14221 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
wasfooled2
♀ Member
Member # 13783
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mods & Inchoate---

I suggested this topic, since I am a BS whose H had and long-term EA, online, and online sexual interaction with many other women.

If it's okay with the mods, I have absolutely no problem with the topic being open to both BS's and WS's alike. I never intended it to be just for BS's.

In fact, I would love to hear some thoughts from WS's who have also had online affairs. It would greatly help me by giving me some insight into what's going on in my husband's mind and heart.

I'm sure it would help others, too. So, Inch, please keep posting.

Mods, OK with you? I didn't mean for this to be for BS's only.


(Me) BS-39
(Him) WS-41 (serial cheater)
D-Day #7 2/24/07 (lost count)
Married 15 years; together for 23
Reconciled, or so I thought. Separated & divorcing.

Better off I sparkle on my own ~ Anna Nalick


Posts: 5583 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Chicago Suburbs
MiJa
♂ Member
Member # 11442
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LadyV:

If the question of whether he is still engaging in cyberaffairs troubles you enough, you can install a keylogger on his computer to check and find out. This is something that the Investigative forum could help you with if you needed it.

I understand completely if this is not something that you want to be doing or feel a need to be doing at this time. But when I see you saying "I'd never know", I just want to make sure you know that in most cases, that's not true.


"But I opened my eyes and walked out the door and the clouds came tumbling down, and it's bye-bye, goodbye, I tried..." -- Ben Folds, "Landed"

Posts: 595 | Registered: Jul 2006
ladyvorkosigan
♀ Member
Member # 8283
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, SpecterSoft is on there. It's disabled right now, but I could turn it back on.

It's more the idea I have that he would be drawn toward it if one of them *did* show back up than concern that they actually will. It's unlikely that they would.

When I say "I'd never know" I mean...well, the online person who stood him up has our home phone number. She called him all the time. I travel on business and am gone for up to two weeks at a time. If she *did* come through our area again and called and suggested making up for standing him up back in the day, I'm not sure what he'd do, and I would never know. I'm not sure it's out of his system. I'm not sure that he's had his beating about that, and thus not sure he can rest.

I could re-enable SpecterSoft, but..okay, this is an Everquest/Everquest 2 thing. And SpecterSoft does not keylog what transpires in EQ. EQ Chat Client, yes. EQ/2 the games, no. The screencaps are what I have to use for those. That's how I caught him trying to hook back up with one of them *after* D-day #1, and it was on the chat client that I caught him with the Primary Offender, she of the standing-him-up-in-Orlando incident. Just an inappropriate conversation, there. Anyway. Point is, screencaps are large. SpecterSoft doesn't retain them long enough for me to see what he was up to for the duration of one of my business trips. To avoid detection, even if I re-enabled it, all he'd have to do is just not do anything for the last 4-5 days before I return.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 11:39 AM, April 5th (Thursday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14221 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
MiJa
♂ Member
Member # 11442
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LadyV:

It sounds like what you have on the WH's computer right now is Spector from SpectorSoft. What might help more for the situation you describe is another one of their products, Eblaster. Eblaster only captures keystrokes, and I have seen it work effectively on a computer that is running EQ at the time. Eblaster also secretly emails regular reports on whatever activity it records on the computer it's installed on to an email address that you specify.

One of the disadvantages of Eblaster is that it wouldn't record what whoever was on the other end of the chat window in EQ was typing... that's where Spector's screen captures have an advantage. But Eblaster *will* capture both ends of a conversation in AIM, Yahoo Chat or a similar popular IM service. And with the emailed reports, you wouldn't have to wait until you got back to WH's computer to see what was going on... just look for the next Eblaster email.


"But I opened my eyes and walked out the door and the clouds came tumbling down, and it's bye-bye, goodbye, I tried..." -- Ben Folds, "Landed"

Posts: 595 | Registered: Jul 2006
ladyvorkosigan
♀ Member
Member # 8283
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It captures keystrokes, too. It's the full version. I don't have the eBlaster function turned on, anymore. I did at first. It's been on there since D-day #1, September 2005. It captures every other keystroke made on the computer, but not in Everquest or Everquest 2.

He doesn't use any chat programs. If he was chatting, it would be in EQ2, or because (and this is the bigger concern) he'd decided to check back in on EQ1. We both have Station accounts, so even though we only play EQ2 now, we could play EQ1 if we wanted. If he checked back in on EQ1, I think we'd run into problems. It'd be the whole old guild thing again, etc.

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 12:18 PM, April 5th (Thursday)]


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14221 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My A started online, and most of it was carried out online, though it was eventually PA. I'll second Inchoate's offer- I'm here to help too.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
wasfooled2
♀ Member
Member # 13783
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fallen....did you consider it an A when it was going on?

My WH doesn't think it's an A unless you physically have intercourse.


(Me) BS-39
(Him) WS-41 (serial cheater)
D-Day #7 2/24/07 (lost count)
Married 15 years; together for 23
Reconciled, or so I thought. Separated & divorcing.

Better off I sparkle on my own ~ Anna Nalick


Posts: 5583 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Chicago Suburbs
NewAttitude
Member
Member # 1030
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Absolutely this isn't just for BS's.
As long as whomever is posting is doing so in a helpful and supportive manner it's all good.


Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.

Posts: 58732 | Registered: Jan 2003
strike2
♂ Member
Member # 12398
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i guess i belong here too..

i had 2 online ea's with the same woman..

hard thing is how to forgive yourself.. it is going to be a while before it can do that..

especially because during the second one my wife was on bedrest pregnant..

what a piece of shit i am


Me: FWS (30)
Her: FBS (30)
Children: 2: boy and girl
Dday#1 Oct 05
Dday#2 Sept 06
Online EA
Working on R together

"life is short.. don't fuck it up"


Posts: 901 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Midwest
17yearsrocked
♀ Member
Member # 14174
Default  Posted: 2:37 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I play both eq and Eq2 and you can log all chat. if you run the patcher and log into game the command is /log HTH only problem is when they log in they may see that it is turned on not sure if there is a way to hide that.


Me (BS) 34
Him (FWS) 37 (Fallensaynte)
Together 17 years married 15
DDay 24/03/07
Children D15, S14, S2, Newborn baby girl

Posts: 803 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Canada
SummerLyn
♀ Member
Member # 7489
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm definitely a member of this club. My H cheated online for years--though he didn't consider it cheating--and it progressed to e-mails, phone calls and phone sex but, according to him, no PA.

I found out by accident when his "just fooling around" got "out of hand" and was no longer contained to the workplace which was the only place he ever used a computer and to his cell phone which had a plan that only included 200 free minutes.

Once it got "out of hand" it was relatively easy to monitor his activities for quite a while before I confronted him. Either he was incredibly lousy at covering things up or he just didn't care if I found out. That's what I tell him anyway...because I'd better not ever find out he thought I was too stupid to figure it out!

He says he is through with all of that and he hasn't given me any reason to doubt that but, like LadyV, I'm gone a lot (weeks at a time) so he has plenty of opportunity. With all of the technology available today, he could have gone deeper underground and I'd never know.


I'd always thought that when I hit rock bottom, there'd be nowhere to go but up. Now I know running around in circles here is also an option.

Posts: 4852 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: Doing time on Pine Tree Lane
unarmbears
♀ Member
Member # 7480
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so glad someone thought of putting this topic into the relate forum.

It is a surreal form of infidelity!

Multiple partners, intimacy, but no touching....

Yep, this is the club I need to join.

For a long time I just "sat in the tray, periodically being clicked on"

I think that having it be open to both sides of the equation will be helpful for all of us.

I found in some research on the subject of online infidelity the "ACE" acronym.

Anonimity
Convenience
Excitement

It helped explain a lot for me of the "how could you do this!"

I think online infidelity speaks boatloads about fear of intimacy. It is much easier to spill your soul in an email or IM box than it is to look a person in the eye and bare yourself in person.

It is a freaky world.


FBS-Me, 60
FWH-Him, 55
2 Sons 25 and 30
2 Daughters 28, 24 And 3 darling grandchildren!
"Love is an impulsive act, it's free. It's the story we tell about it afterward that's our poverty." Byron Katie

Posts: 4886 | Registered: Jun 2005 | From: From where the trees lean east...
sheisnothappy
♀ Member
Member # 14068
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would definitely like to hear from the other side too..


Me: BS, 28
WH 31
12 yrs marriage, 1 son 9,
Online EA-3+yrs
1stDD: March 2007
2ndDD: January 31, 2009
Attempting R
Umm..yeah

Posts: 538 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: south of sanity
ladyvorkosigan
♀ Member
Member # 8283
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Prior to getting married I did lots of online flirting, even met some people I met first online. So, I do understand the fun of it. I guess I just don't understand it once it begins to take away from your real life. And my husband did have a real life, sitting there rotting from disuse. It's a conundrum. On EQ he felt like a winner, being all high level and in demand and important in his guild and stuff. In real life he became more and more of a loser as he became more and more of an EQ winner. BTW, my husband would never be interested in like pure chat or something like that. It was always going to be part of some kind of video game, I know that. It was all wrapped up in that fantasy life, which he preferred to real life, and real life got progressively less rewarding for him the longer he continued to avoid living it.

One thing that continues to bug me is that after D-day #1, I sat there and watch him continue to troll, via the spyware. The main online chick, an older lady from Atlanta (the one who had stood him up a few years before for a RL meeting in Orlando) was one of the people he continued to talk to after D-day #1. He continued to troll her. He continued to troll various others. So, while he established NC immediately after D-day #1 with the woman with whom he had a PA (who was not met online), NC was never established with any of these online women. As far as any of them know - particularly Gramma Atlanta - they're still great friends. Some of the others he *did* meet IRL, but he couldn't get them alone, because they were with their boyfriend and husband respectively. ALL of these women, though...the fact that he is not in contact with them is incidental. It's just because they haven't tried to contact him. So, he's in as much of an affair with Grandma Atlanta, in particular, as he ever was, from her point of view. It's not that it's over, it's that he moved from EQ1 to EQ2, and she didn't. SHE has no idea, because he continued their online affair *even after D-day #1* and never actually ended it.

So should Gramma come cruising through Florida again, she would have no reason not to give him a call, since she felt bad about standing him up the first time she was coming through, when she decided to not meet him at a motel and instead go meet a guy in Tampa. Nice, eh? Anyway. There's no reason why she wouldn't call here, again, except that she hasn't thought about it. No NC. So, what would he do if she called? If I was out of town, he'd have the baby, which, presumably, would stop him. I don't *think* he'd take our baby to go meet her. But if I was in town, he could always make up somewhere he had to be, and I'd never know.


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14221 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wasfooled, I didn't consider it an A while I was flirting with him. My conscience was talking to me but I squelched the voice. Later, when the talk went beyond flirting into suggestive talk, I knew it was wrong, but still wouldn't have allowed myself to see it as an A. Only after OP told me he loved me did I see it as an A. It wasn't physical before that time, and only became physical because of that.

With the benefit of hindsight I absolutely feel that it was cheating as soon as I started keeping my chats with him secret.

[This message edited by Fallen at 4:34 PM, April 6th (Friday)]


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
girlalmostgone
♀ Member
Member # 4867
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am here too gang. Not only was I the unknowing wife of a husband that 'chatted'

My EA was 95 % on line.


Love is no assignment for cowards. Ovid

I just really feel like I am a hamster running on the wheel.. and I am ready to get off the wheel, and try running around in the hamster ball.. kinda like a free range chicken.


Posts: 37201 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Texas
strike2
♂ Member
Member # 12398
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

did anyone elses ea start on a online message board?


Me: FWS (30)
Her: FBS (30)
Children: 2: boy and girl
Dday#1 Oct 05
Dday#2 Sept 06
Online EA
Working on R together

"life is short.. don't fuck it up"


Posts: 901 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Midwest
girlalmostgone
♀ Member
Member # 4867
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know of my H did.. but I didn't.


Love is no assignment for cowards. Ovid

I just really feel like I am a hamster running on the wheel.. and I am ready to get off the wheel, and try running around in the hamster ball.. kinda like a free range chicken.


Posts: 37201 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Texas
ladyvorkosigan
♀ Member
Member # 8283
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fallen, what do you think would've happened if you were "caught" before it got physical? Do you think you ever would've seen that the online stuff really *was* an affair, without it having gone all the way? That's why I can't ever wish I'd caught him before he had his PA. I don't think it would've done any good, I don't think it would've been the rock bottom hitting experience he required. Do you think you could've "gotten it" without the PA? I always wonder about WSs who *did* stop first, like Inchoate, for example. She manages to understand the seriousness of it, but I think that's got to be pretty rare.


It nagged him, in particular, that none of the girls hed known so far had given him a sense of unalloyed triumph.

Posts: 14221 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: Florida
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