My FWS affair lasted 10 months out of 17 years. I can barely cope with that.
I truly don't know if I could forgive my spouse if his affair had lasted most of our married life.
I applaude you for staying. You definitely are the better person.
I hope with time that the friend thing will get easier. But there is no way in hell I will ever allow FWS to have female friends. He has proved to me that he cannot be trusted in that area. As for other couples, I am not sure. Hopefully in time I will get used to that. But never will I allow as close a friendship with another couple as the one we had with OW. We were practically joined at the hips.
After 15 months I have finally gotten to the point that if he cheats he cheats. I refuse to spend my life checking up on him, worrying if it is going to happen again. If it does he knows what will happen, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I can forgive once, but never again. ever.
I did tell mutual friends and would do it again in a heartbeat. I feel no shame. I did nothing wrong. It was a choice our WS made when they did this. Our actions are a result of theirs. If you get blame shifted on any of it that is BS. Why? If they had not slept around on you you would have never been in this position.
I guess I relate to you Munky...I met our OW to offer my love and forgiveness and she bit off my fingers...funny thing is the months after the sex she was trying to get back to my husband....she did so many things now that I see....she actually listened to me cry because I *thought* my husband had an affair even though he denied it...I poured out my pain and she knew it was HER!!! She tried to get me to leave him...now I know she would have swooped in to "console" him...she wanted him in her harem...she enjoyed the ego stroking he did for her and she "deserved" to have that sex with my husband...after all "he pursued her" that makes it alright...she denied and lied to me further... expected me to just "get over it"...and to never mention it again...after all I am a Christian and that is my duty...
She sure didn't read the verses in the bible that say not to committ adultery and lie...she tried to use my love and good will against me...she wanted me to be her doormat...if I had said...okay you slept with my husband...ohhh that hurts but it will be okay I'll never mention it again...I suck up and stuff and suffer all the pain in silence...well...I'm sure she would still want to be in my life...sneaking off with my husband when she "can't help it" and "her needs aren't being met"....never mind my need to have honesty and faithfulness as the backbones of my relationships with others...
It hurts...so sorry you and all of us here are in this boat...your wife should be honest and provide you with anything you need to heal...my husband knows I won't protect this dirty secret that wasn't my making...I will talk about it to whoever I need to in order to heal and have the suppport I need....that's a consequence...saying that I don't wave flags and wear t-shirts proclaiming "I'm a survivor of the worst betrayal imaginable" anymore than I wear a t-shirt saying I survived sexual abuse or rape or anything else...but it is a part of my life...my testimony...how I deal with this betrayal and rejection...if I lean on my Savior and gain strength and whether I help others by being transparent...that is my testimony...I won't keep silent if I can help others.
I feel you pain so sorry.
Thank you for realizing more so than my WS the level of what was done.
I stay now for my daughter and hope my wife can change and I can overcome this. She must change, i have and will continue, and then can I cope? I really am doubting it today but tomorrow may be different.
I now view friends in a way as a joke. They are to hang with NOT TO TRUST no matter WHAT.
When I complain about OW, who was supposed to be my best friend, I am pretty much saying the same thing about FWS as he did the same thing to her husband.
That is a hard truth to swallow.
If she wasn't my friend because she could do this...well he wasn't my husband because he could do this...
As for trusting other women, I don't...period. I trust my SIL, for obvious reasons, but that's about where it stops. I had another niece coming around dressing provacatively, and it about sent me into panic attacks. I finally had to quit taking her calls and start avoiding her because of what it was doing to me psychologically. (ironically it was OW's sister)
I have lost a lot of "me" through this whole thing. I've lost jobs, can't really keep one because I'm still so screwed up.
Her life goes on just like a fairy tale. She's had 3 more babies, a SAHM, living the high life according to her dad. She goes on as if nothing ever happened, and I just don't get that.
What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.
Teatime - Do we have the same OW??? OW does the same thing with me, quotes bible scriptures on forgiveness, and about not suing your brother (I threatened to sue her for the money that was lovingly given to her while she was carrying on with him) I asked her if she skipped one of the 10 commandments that said Thou Shalt NOT commit Adultery! Not to mention all the other biblical scriptures they have about adultery...She totally ignored all of those.
I've released her to God to allow Him to work on her heart...I pray for her DAILY and secretly hope someday she is truly repentant and sorry for the pain she has placed in my life and the lives of all the others she has betrayed...she is a repeat OW in several marriages...I just didn't know it...cause she was never honest or transparent with me. I believe she has a sexual addiction and also some kind of personality disorder....so I guess I can feel pity for her because she is NOT STABLE!!!
Her husband was onto her about the other affair, so when she came out here to escape him berating her, I opened my arms, and my home to her. Little did I know she would take so many *other* liberties with me and my family.
She has apologized, claims she's born again, and quotes scripture and tries to use it against me, as if I was the one who did wrong originally. I just don't know when/if it will ever be enough. I know that will be something I will face on judgement day, but I just despise her that much at this point in my life. She has ruined my life for the past 4 years. Everything I thought was good about myself is now questionable. I am withdrawn, don't like public places, the list goes on.
She came out here to "take care of me" when I had major surgery, knowing it was a devastating surgery. (hysterectomy) She knew I wanted more kids, but couldn't, and I think her final blow to me was that I think her one child might be H's. She won't admit it, but the girl looks just like H, and my boys. Looks nothing like her or her husband. I could never give H another child, let alone a daughter. That is the ultimate slap in the face. The hits just keep on coming.
The only good that can be redeemed is by the hard work and pain we invest in the relationship to try to heal...God's grace is the only thing that can bring restoration...our marriage will never be as good as it could have been without the adultery...if the same work had been put into the relationship...if husband had put half of the energy into the marriage as he did into pursuing illicit sex/porn/OW then our marriage would have been unshakable...
Sad...now I just want him to put that energy into our healing and transparency...I want him to work on intimacy...never lie to me again about another thing in his whole life...for God to restore what the locusts have eaten...am I asking too much???
He has taken this away from them with his actions, I try hard to be happy but I'm not sure that I can do this with him in my life. He willingly continued his A for many many months and didn't think about the consequences until he was caught out. It really pisses me off that they just don't think but when everything comes out it's "OMG I F**ked up, I could have lost everything". Sometimes I just want him to know the feeling that I have every day that I lost everything!!
I am changed forever as a result and I hate that, I used to be fun and caring and trusting. Now I'm none of these. My best friend was telling me about how she wants to get remarried (widowed) and I did everything to talk her out of it saying "it's just words, means nothing in the end", she then said if she doesn't get married then she would want a commitment ring I told her "it's just a piece of jewelery". I hate that I am like this now. I don't think I would ever tell my kids to marry as it's not all it should be.
I used to believe in fairytales I wanted for my prince and never slept around, he was the first person I shared a real kiss with, why? because I believed if I waited and did everything right my prince would come. I thought he had I'm just so sad that I wasn't good enough for him to stay faithful!! I hate my life and ATM him!!
DDay #1: 04 March 07
DDay #2: 10 May 2007 revealed all (I hope)
profile has all the sordid details...
I am changed forever as a result and I hate that, I used to be fun and caring and trusting. Now I'm none of these.
I'm just so sad that I wasn't good enough for him to stay faithful!!
Hug your children...it is so hard...I know my children have suffered so much because I have NOT been able to function as I would have if this had never happened...it has had such grave consequences and what has been stolen....why in the world did they want this for us or our marriages???
As a mom, I know we suck it up for our children...we'd throw ourselves under a bus to keep our children from being hit...we absorb so much shock to protect our babies...mamas just do that...guess that is why this hurts so much...we are in such shock and pain that basic functioning is impaired...I found it hard to even do the basics...even hugging my children was hard...I've finally gotten that back...reclaiming me...what was squashed by this horrible pain and betrayal....
more hugs to you today than you can imagine...(((lovegonewrong)))
My H had a three month PA with my SIL (his brother's wife). We have always been close and shared many weekends together. The A happened this summer during camping season. My H had more holidays than me and SIL is a SAHM. We both have 2 kids each. So we thought, wouldn't it be nice for the kids to go camping together. H and SIL went out during the week, while BIL and I worked and then we would join them on the weekend. I NEVER NEVER thought this would happen. It's totally drained me to the core.
It's about four months out and I am now on AD's (celexa) and something to help me sleep which has worked wonders (in the past four months I had only not cried in 7 days - now I've went 3 days straight without crying).
But there is one thing that is really REALLY bothering me.
Both couples are trying to R. And H and BIL are trying to mend their relationship as well. H is really trying to fix things between him and his brother. He has invited him over to our house, went out for drinks and lunch with him, invited him to "boys nights out" and is genuinely trying to salvage the relationship.
SIL on the other hand has done nothing, nada, zilch.
I am so happy that my H and BIL are trying to work things out, but I can't seem to get over my resentment that SIL is not trying at all with me.
It's my daughter's 6th birthday party on Saturday and they will be here. This will be the first time I've seen her since Christmas (which was excruciating for me, let me tell you!).
What do I do????????
I've let out the olive branch a couple of times. Sent her a letter and we had them both over to our house before Christmas so it was not the first time that we were all in the same room together to see if we could all "handle it". When they were over, she basically lost it all night and I actually consoled her! Can you believe it?! I told her that I wanted to try to mend this. About two weeks later and no response from her, I went into a severe anger stage and wanted nothing to do with her. But now seeing H and BIL together has brought the resentment back.
"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."
Let me first start out by saying that you have two options at this time:
1. You can read this letter and know how I feel; or
2. You can throw it away.
With that said, I am taking it that you are still reading. I donít even know where to begin. All I know is that I need you to hear my words. Without my anger boiling over. I will not give you the satisfaction of my anger. Without my tears. Iíve spent enough of them on you already. Without my sadness. Iíve dealt with more than I should have in ten lifetimes.
Iíve now had time to get over the ďshockĒ of it all and feel that now I can actually express what it is I need to say to you. About how this has affected me.
First of all, I want to acknowledge that I know you are going through your own inner turmoil. But letís make one thing clear right off the get go. You will NEVER know or experience the hurt the way I have and you will NEVER fully understand the full impact of what your actions have done to me and my life going forward.
You have hurt me in a way I never thought possible. For the last 5 years, Iíve felt an uncommon bond with you. We just seemed to ďgetĒ each other. I considered you my best friend, my confidant and over the past few years, grew to consider you my sister. And Iíve never had a sister. Iíve never even considered anyone else in such high regard. Thatís the biggest thing that you and I have lost. Our friendship. Our sisterhood. Please consider yourself lucky to have your sisters. I can only imagine now what a special bond it is and I will probably never experience that again in my lifetime.
The most obvious hurt of course is the fact that you had sex with my husband. Multiple times. In our ďhome away from homeĒ. In the bed I slept in and that H and I made love in. In the sheets that I washed. I know it sounds clichť, but it is the ultimate betrayal. And I do not have the luxury of not trying to figure out ďwhatĒ happened during your affair and I can only describe the thoughts and visions that go through my head as sheer torture. And they still occur daily. The little ďmind moviesĒ play over and over again and I will never know, even if H gave me every single detail, what actually happened, what was said, the looks that were passed, etc. Most days, I just shut down emotionally so I can make it through the day. And oddly enough, my visions donít centre around H, they centre around you. What you must have done, said, saw, felt. It drives me crazy. Iíve lost weight and not the healthy way, I am smoking more than I ever have in my life, I am not eating right and not taking care of myself physically because the burden of trying to care for myself emotionally seems to take up all of my time. And I donít think Iím actually doing a very good job of that either.
On top of the actual affair, I was even more upset and hurt to find out that not only did you have sex with my husband, but you told him things that you and I discussed in confidence. Frustrations that Iíve had at times with our marriage and with H. To know that you took those things and discussed them so nonchalantly is just like a knife in my back. We have had many discussions on ďcontroversialĒ subjects and letís face it, we have secrets. And it makes me wonder who else and what else youíve told people what Iíve told you in confidence. And itís hindered me from talking to anyone who might support me through this. Not only do I have trust issues with H, and you of course, but I also do with everyone else because if my best friend/sister could do this to me, whatís stopping anyone else? And yet, youíve told me things in confidence too, and Iíve NEVER told them to BIL (or anyone for that matter). Even after all of this, I havenít. Because those discussions were between us as close friends and even after the affair, I will not sink to that level. I have more respect for myself as a friend and as a person. I am not going to go against my morals just to feel better. Iím above that.
More than anything, I feel utterly alone.
Iím also angry. Iíve always had a fairly level head on my shoulders. Iím angry that my self-esteem is shot because H chose to sleep with the blue-eyed bleached blond with the nice ass. Something I will never be. Iím angry that now Iím the one who is seeing a shrink, thinking about anti-depressants, constantly monitoring Hís actions and on the verge of tears every day. Iím angry because all of this was not my choice. Not my doing. I did nothing wrong and now Iím being made to suffer the consequences. Iíve always prided myself in being a strong, independent, proud woman and now I feel like a shell of myself and whatís filling the emptiness is not pleasant to say the least. Iím angry because you dumped whatever issues you had/have on me and I did not ask to have to deal with them for the rest of my life.
Iím also grieving now. Grieving my marriage. Grieving our friendship. Grieving all the good times we all had together as families. What scares me to death is that the first month out, (my son) asked for (SILís son) daily. And you know what, I donít think Iíve even heard his name spoken in our house for at least two weeks. Those boys were best friends and they are forgetting each other. Some days I think they are the lucky ones.
I miss my nephews. I miss them so much. One of the worst things is that our kids are being denied their given right to the bonds of family. And the same goes for (Hís Mom and Dad). Gone are the days of family suppers and card games. Gone are the good memories of spending time together. I was going through pictures the other day and had to stop because I came across pictures of you and H playing poker at (camping spot). And I couldnít even think of the good times that were had there. How happy the kids were to be out camping with their dad. How great it was to have so many close friends and family to share this with. All I could think was, there I was, completely snowed, taking pictures of my happy family spending time together and what was really happening was you and H playing footsie under the table. And I was taking pictures of it! It makes me feel so stupid and ashamed for bragging to EVERYONE how great it was to have family who was so close. It makes me feel stupid every time someone tells me how lucky I am to have you as a friend. And I have no choice but to keep up appearances and live the lie. Smile and agree.
I have some questions for you. I donít expect you to answer any/all of them, but I need to ask to get them off of my chest. They have been questions that I have had for awhile but since we havenít been talking, they havenít been asked. I know that itís probably a little late in the game for these, but Iím going to ask them anyway.
1. While the affair was going on, were you emotionally involved? The reason I ask this is because I think I know how we women think and if I were in the same situation, I KNOW it wouldíve not been just about the sex.
2. What, after this time, do you see as the consequences of your actions, and do you think there is anything that you can do to make things better for everyone involved (and I mean on a daily basis Ė family functions, etc.)?
3. Who else knows about the affair? Who have you told that I am not aware of? (I donít want to run into anyone in Lethbridge or Pincher and get the ďpity stareĒ and find out that way. And believe me, there is a ďpity stareĒ.)
4. Did you want to or feel like you were replacing me or taking my place when I wasnít there while the affair was going on? Did you feel you were doing H a favour by flirting with him, even when I was around and maybe not doing the same thing for him?
5. What did you feel you were giving H during the affair (emotionally)?
6. Were you mad/upset or did you feel used when you saw H and I having a good time together (example Ė the ďsqueaky bedĒ night)?
7. When you guys were in Cottonwood, the trailers were quite far apart. From what I understand, there was no ďplanningĒ of what was going to happen at night. H tucked the kids into bed and stayed in the trailer and you went and tucked your kids into bed. What was it that DIDNíT stop you from staying in your trailer and instead walking over to our trailer and opening the door when H was already inside?
Like I said, I donít know if you will answer any of these questions, but I hope you do. If nothing else, I hope you think about them and maybe they can help you understand more about this whole thing.
There are also some ground rules that we need to establish (all four of us) regarding contact, our kids, the holidays, etc:
1. I know there will come a day when all four of us will have to be in the same room at the same time. A holiday, a wedding, a funeral, a birthday party. I personally would like our first meeting to NOT be at one of those events, for the sole purpose of not dragging anyone else into this mess. I would like to do it at one of our homes (selfishly mine). I personally need some sort of control over this situation and I donít want it to be at a big family function. I donít know what Christmas is going to be this year, but I think we are all adults here and for the sake of our kids, I think we need to let them experience the holidays together at some point. Let me know what you think about this.
2. I MUST be present at any meeting between you and H. Iíve also stipulated to H that if you try to contact him, I will be the first to know. I donít know if you have or not, but I just want you to know that thatís the way it is so you donít feel like if you try to contact him, it has to be in secret.
3. I will NOT allow our kids to suffer because of this. We will be inviting the boys as well as you and BIL over for birthday parties and other events. We need to somehow mutually come to an agreement about how this is going to happen. Any suggestions/ideas you would have would be welcome as itís already been over a month since our children have seen each other. And thatís not fair to them.
And what do I want from you? I want an apology (I know you apologized the day after, but those first few days are quite a blur and all of our actions were pretty ďknee jerkĒ). Remorse. And not an apology followed by an explanation. Not, ďIím sorryÖbutÖĒ. I donít need buts, or howevers. You donít owe me your explanation Ė only BIL deserves that. He deserves for you to do whatever it takes to save your marriage. I donít know whatís going on with you guys and thatís your business, but I just want to say that nothing will change in your life unless you change as well. I hope you are truly working on that for the sake of your marriage, your family and yourself.
If this letter seems a little one-sided, thatís because itís meant to be. Believe me, thereís nothing in here that hasnít been voiced to H as well and he knows it (heís gotten a hell of a lot more than this!). And I know that youíve said before that you guys are 50/50 percent responsible in this thing, but really, you arenít:
H is 100% responsible for what heís done to our marriage and family.
You are 100% responsible for what youíve done to your marriage and family.
H is 100% responsible for what heís done to his relationship with BIL.
You are 100% responsible for what youíve done to our relationship.
And this letter is about you and me. About what we had. About what you took. About what you threw away. And about what I can never give you again. Unconditional love, trust and friendship. Might not sound like much, but I think itís huge.
I know in the very beginning (only days after finding out), I told you not to contact me or my family again, but if you would like to respond to this, you can. Either by phone, e-mail, return letter, whatever.
And you can contact me in the future. I might not always jump at the chance to talk, but I do realize that as long as we are both still a part of this family, we will have to talk eventually.
I know we are all going to do what we need to do to get through this. I needed to write this letter. I needed to release all of these things that were going through my head and I needed you to hear them. I donít know if you need to read it and reply to it, or toss it and forget I was in your life. But the ball is in your court. Do what you want with it.
Take care of your family.
(November 27, 2007)
BTW, I never got a reply.
I think it was the right thing to send the letter as she is obviously never going to give me the satifaction of showing true remorse.
At least I got it out there, you know?
Are you in R?
It is good you got to say what you needed to say and get it out there...right thing to do and you were very gracious...beyond kind and well above reproach...classy lady you!!!
We are both the classy ones
I was so kind to OW...and she hurt me further.
Your SIL and my OW
hugs to you again (((funnystory)))
Though she was the one who planned ahead and prepared for what happned next, he is equally to blame. Later he told himself that it was better him than a stranger who might harm his brother's wife or who might break up his brother's marriage. The self justifying lies she told herself remain unknown to me. This was a one night stand only.
It was after this that we started dating. When I met his family and his sister in-law, I felt from the start that there was something amiss. Sister in-law treated me as though I had done some harm to her and for the first few years, I tried to figure out what << I >> had done and how I could make amends. We live several states away and only see his family once or twice a year so it was not somthing I thought about except when we were with them. As the years passed, my husband's casual drinking became a problem, a very big problem. His alcoholism, lack of involvement in our life and his addiction to work pretty much put our marriage in the dumpster.
He joined AA and stopped drinking but he continued to live his life as an alcholic, detached and self involved, and rarely home. He preferred to spend the bulk of his time at work or AA meetings /functions. We had seperate bedrooms. During this time, he returned to his hometown without me for a high school reunion - I had to work. He stayed at his brother's house for several days leading up to the reunion. Bear in mind that I was not aware of the one night stand with his sister in-law at this time. We have been told that his brother has always known about the ONS which is why this next part is so absurd. His sister in-law offered to go to my husband's reunion with him after he mentioned that my ticket would go to waste. Her husband was ok with that. (I don't mean to sound immature but all I can think of to say at this point is WTF? Who is ever ok with his wife going on a date with a man she cheated on him with?)
A lot of flattery from his old classmates about how young he looked gave my recovering alcoholic spouse a feeling of inebriation (he did not drink that night). It brought out some resentment toward me; he blamed our lack of physical intimacy on me, refusing to own his share of responsibility for the state of our marriage. He and his sister in-law had innappropriate sexual contact, primarily on the dance floor. They left the event with plans to have sex. When they returned home his brother was there. Seeing his brother was a dose of reality for my husband. His brother had just come from walking the dogs. Knowing he would not want to go for another walk, his wife suggested a walk on the beach which my husband intrepreted as an invitation to him to do more than walk. Like his brother, he declined her offer and came home the next day.
He eventually confessed all of this and we have had counseling individually and as a couple aware that his sister in-law's role has little to do with the state of our marriage. However because theirs is an unhealthy and enabling relationship, in addition to being disrespectful and harmful to both marriages, he wrote a no contact letter to his sister in-law. She wrote a condescending reply addressed only to my husband in which she referred to me only as "she" and "her". It had no tone of remorse and no apology to me. My husband has made amends to his brother after ascertaing that he knew of both of these events. His brother responded as though we are making a big deal out of nothing. In fact, his brother refers to this as "just a series of misunderstandings"
We continue to hold our boundaries and keep our distance as much as family relations allow. They continue to live in what I can only call denial. She sent us a Christmas card with a personal note inside (my husband's brother addressed the envelope so husband opened it) and we were torn between ignoring it or calling husband's brother to remind him that she is not welcome in our lives.
This continues to feel like an impossible situation.