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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, June 8th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H is not acting out at all. Only incident with wearing the nipple shield before the piercings were removed about 6 weeks ago. MC is a certified Sex Therapist. We see as a couple and he individually. Also weekly SAA meetings.


Me 51
Him 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, June 8th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2br02b,
Thank you, I was confused by your post. That's good. I was concerned because I don't advise people to stay with SAs who are not working a program, getting sober and entering recovery.

Are you going to any kind of group for yourself?

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
PTRN
♀ Member
Member # 19730
Default  Posted: 4:26 AM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Posting here because I believe my WH is a bipolar SA.

Anyway, I keep getting trickle truth. After going to pick up the paperwork for a pro se divorce a few days ago, we both broke down and he seemed genuinely remorseful. I had planned to visit an old friend for a couple of nights and did. Turns out he was calling hookers while I was away, and only admitted this after I called him on how incredibly skanky one escort appeared to be. He then thought I knew HIS TER login, so I tricked him into revealing it and his reviews.

NOthing like finding out hookers were in my bed(eta: this happened previously, I'm not in that bed anymore), that poor little ds and I slept in the "dirty" sheets without realizing it, and THEN reading all about the hookers "really nice pussy". (And more.)

To top it off, he keeps getting angry with ME. (He's insisting he wants to R, I don't see how that is possible, especially when he gets pissed off for things like me suggesting he sell the bed. The hooker in my house and bed was just too much for me--especially since ds and I slept on those sheets.) I am "overreacting"

We're in a strange limbo here. I feel I should leave, at least for awhile in order to be safe and have some freaking peace of mind. But he's making things very difficult. (I'm a SAHM, we have tenants in our other property, and so on.)

ETA: One of the worst parts of this has been finding out how he truly feels about women. If you met him, he'd come across as this big teddy bear of a guy,an intelligent, liberal feminist. HE subscribes to Bitch magazine, plasters his store windows with Roller Derby signs, signs inviting people to Take Back the Night rallies, and so on.

Fucking lies.

[This message edited by PTRN at 4:50 AM, June 9th (Monday)]


Posts: 214 | Registered: Jun 2008
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi PTRN,
Has he been diagnosed by a doctor as bipolar? (I wouldn't be surprised, my adult nephew is bipolar and he's SA)

ADD is not uncommon and is sometimes mistaken for bipolar.

Is he willing to seek treatment for the SA? He needs to see a CSAT. You absolutely need to decide what's best for you and your child if he will not get treatment. IMHO, no one should stay with a SA who is not in recovery, it's toxic.

You need to find a counselor too, hon, you shouldn't be dealing with this all on your own.

PM me anytime.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
PTRN
♀ Member
Member # 19730
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks 7.

I have an appointment with my primary physician tomorrow for an STD panel, and plan to ask her for reccos for IC and MC. I'm a strong person, but yeah, just a bit too much.

I found a possible SA therapist for WH, but he'll have to make that call. Or there will be consequences.


Posts: 214 | Registered: Jun 2008
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's good that you're getting tested. Your FWH needs to be tested too and frankly you need to abstain from sex until you both get a clean bill of health.

I know I've read on these boards that when you ask for a full screening you still might not get tested for everything. I always forget which ones they don't normally test for and you have to specifically ask. You might search around to find out to make sure you really do get a full screening.

I'm sending you a PM too.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
2br02b
♀ Member
Member # 19664
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrsbetrayed - No, I am not going to a group. I am not the one who needs to work a program. I go to IC.


Me 51
Him 53 (and SA)
D-Day#1 9/19/1981
D-Day#2 11/23/2008
D-Day#3 - 6/6/09 (Actually D-Day!) - full disclosure given.
Forgiveness - 8/30/09
Married 29 years
2 adult children
Reconciling
2BR02B - that is the question.

Posts: 81 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Phoenix, AZ
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not the one who needs to work a program.

I agree! I hate that they try to shove 12 steps off on us too! I was able to find a group that is not a 12 step program and it's been nice to know I'm not alone in this.

Is your IC familiar with SA and counseling a spouse of an SA? That makes all the difference too.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
pebbles
♀ Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7
Can you direct me to a non 12 step program online and are there real life groups.


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
peridot
♀ Member
Member # 18334
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was talking to my WS, why I don't know. The kids have been having a hard time with this divorce and I guess that I am at a point where I just want us to be civil enough that this won't traumatize the kids. So he so kindly reminds me that he is going to the group meetings and not looking at porn anymore. I told him that chatting with women online, masturbating while talking to them and meeting them for sex is still a problem. Oh and he has been going to these meetings for over a month and is still on chapter one.


I think...therefore, I'm single.

It is what it is.


Posts: 4488 | Registered: Feb 2008
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, June 9th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told him that chatting with women online, masturbating while talking to them and meeting them for sex is still a problem. Oh and he has been going to these meetings for over a month and is still on chapter one.

Sadly, he hasn't hit rock bottom. He's not in recovery. He's trying to "manage" and enjoy his addiction. Is he going to SAA rather than SA?

That right there would be part of the problem since SAA allows masturbation. I've said it before, I'll say it again. If an SA is masturbating he's not sober. You don't tell an alcoholic to have a drink.

Peridot, I feel for you, I genuinely do. You're in a horrible spot. {{{hugs}}}

pebbles,
Hi. The only non 12 step group I've found online is codeps.com, which is a message board, but it's not terribly active. I found the IRL group I'm in by happenstance. My husband found his CSAT at a counseling center in our area and they have a private group they run (it's not SA or SAA, it's their own private group for men who are in IC there for SA). Anyway, this counseling center started spouses groups. So it's not COSA, that's why it's not a 12 step. We are focusing on codependency. Reading "Codependent No More" and supposedly doing a workbook. I take serious issue with the workbook though and don't do the exercises in it. I just go to group for the camaraderie. Also, it's not free, whereas 12 step groups are. You just need to hunt around in your area and see what you can find. The support for spouses of SA is abysmal. It makes me sad.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Marcia
Member
Member # 6503
Default  Posted: 2:47 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs, thanks for your concern and advice. I'm definitely not out of the woods. One friend who is a counselor said I'm suffering PTSD... it sounds accurate. I'll try MASH, it's one book I didn't read.

I did the S-ANON stuff, and a lot of it spoke to me. Also went to a codependents' group but ended up quitting as all that was happening was people recounting how they were abused as children (I wasn't). But have I been co-dependent? Oh yes.

Was actually in IC when the last character went through my life. And that was part of the problem; my therapist kept insisting that it was only my previous experiences that made me so suspicious of the new one, but having learned to verify, I did and found a veritable hornet's nest of activity.

Since then, I haven't dated anyone. I'm happier, but that doesn't mean I'm cured


WHEN DID THE RULES CHANGE?
How did I miss the memo???

People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)


Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Washington DC
pebbles
♀ Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SA WH stopped porn about 18 months ago. Started SAA and AA 2 1/2 mo. ago

Now says he is not masturbating (the mtgs taught him this wasn't good for recovery). I don't know if he is or not. His recovery is all on his shoulders.

The problem I have is when we are out together. His behavior is the same. For example, I came out of a dressing room at a store and he had a newspaper he was reading. The newspaper was lowered and he was watching the salesgirl in the area. When he noticed me there he jumped and quickly put the newspaper back up.

I'm having a problem now distinguishing between normal male behavior and SA behavior. Of course then this gives me triggers everywhere.

The EMDR took that feeling of prickers rushing thru my blood away, which then triggered the rage. Now I just feel disgusted and walk away. I have delayed rage now. The rage isn't instant now it comes later and I seem to have the ability to stifle it to a lesser degree. Now I don't talk to him about it because he says that it makes him want to drink.

Because this has been going on the entire relationship I know longer know what normal male behavior is and what SA behavior is.

I don't want to leave him if this is now normal male behavior.

I would appreciate anyone else's opinion about this.


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
beagle lover
♀ New Member
Member # 19694
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,
Something came up in WH's counseling session that he mentioned and raised red flags with me.
His IC was surprised WH cut the porn out completely. He said cutting it out all together without methods in place to replace the ritual or identifying the triggers would likely cause set backs (similar to diets and cutting out all foods you like).
Instead he said to reduce to a normal amount (once a week for a few minutes if needed) if the urge is to great, while he is working on his stress and trigger issues.
I understand that he is encouraging weaning rather than cold turkey, but I don't know if this should be a red flag that this is not a good therapist.


Me 33
WH 37 SA/Porn Addict/had ONS with OM and EA with ex co-worker
Married 10 years
No kids
Lots of D-Days along the way, but ONS D-Day 5/28/08
Going to give R another chance. Hoping for honesty this time around

Posts: 50 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Rhode Island
pebbles
♀ Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We went thru that with SA WH's counselor.

Now we know that quitting cold turkey is the way to go.

It's like telling a cocaine addict that they can have one jolt of the drug while withdrawing.

They don't withdraw unless it is cold turkey because they are still getting the drug.

Out of the Shadows by Patrick Carnes gives a great perspective of what sex addiction is.

I'm still dealing with his trickle withdrawing.

The SAA mtgs has given him better information about his behavior.


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
totalblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 19486
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I sent my WH the link to www.sexhelp.com a couple of weeks ago. I asked him if he was going to counseling and he said yes, he is starting this week, but he did not find one through the website. He has yet to even look at the website and he is not admitting he has a problem. I know I shouldn't care, but I just can't help but feel that maybe if he got help, he would actually show some remorse for what he did. I'm having a really hard time coping with a 3+ year relationship and a six month marriage that he can just walk away from with no feelings.


D-Day - 5/9/08
Divorce final 7/18/08

Posts: 59 | Registered: May 2008 | From: IL
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pebbles,
The problem I have is when we are out together. His behavior is the same. For example, I came out of a dressing room at a store and he had a newspaper he was reading. The newspaper was lowered and he was watching the salesgirl in the area. When he noticed me there he jumped and quickly put the newspaper back up.

I asked my rSAH (recovering SA Husband) about this and according to him, this is a "boundary behavior." I guess your rSAH hasn't learned this or is ignoring it. He should realize that something is bothering him and he's "using" by looking for women (scanning) or at women (lusting). So, this being a boundary issue, your SA needs to set a consequence for himself. I asked my FWH about it and he said the guys in his group wear a rubber band around their wrists and they snap themselves really hard when they feel themselves starting to scan. Then they focus on why they started scanning. There is an mnemonic device for it. "HALT" He should ask himself "Am I Hungry? Am I Angry? Am I Lonely? Am I Tired?" Most everything online says that "hungry" is literal but my rSAH's CSAT says that "hungry" doesn't necessarily mean that he needs food (though it CAN). But it might mean he's "hungry" for any number of things. Stimulation (he's bored) or validation or just about any "need" that he perceives is not being met. So he needs to HALT and then make a phone call or do whatever is in his recovery plan to remedy the situation and NOT act out by "scanning."

I've told you what he should be learning and implementing but of course you can't do it for him.

So here is what you need to do for you. We've discussed this in my support group. One woman in particular has problems with her husband lusting (specifically at church where there is a woman in the choir with big boobs that he can't seem to stop oogling even with his wife next to him) The advice given by our counselor is that every time she catches him she needs to express how it makes her feel. Not attack him. He said to be careful about what words are chosen. Look very carefully at what you're feeling. For instance, the woman in my group said "It makes me feel ANGRY!"

What's that going accomplish? Not much. Her rSAH is going to get defensive and angry himself. So our counselor asked us all to look at the core of that feeling and we found that things like "anger" and "disgust" all stem from the REAL core issue here. Which is FEAR. We're all afraid. We're afraid of being abandoned. We're afraid of being hurt. We're afraid of living with an SA who's acting out for the rest of our lives. So look deeper at what you're feeling and express it in a way that gives him a sense of what's really at your core. Hurt and fear. Right? He shouldn't become as defensive about that though he still might. So, every time he acts out by scanning or lusting, make eye contact with him and calmly tell him, "When you scan and lust I feel very hurt and very afraid. I'm asking you to please work on that behavior." The key here is using "I" statements not "you" statments and "asking" not demanding or telling. Hopefully if you do that a few times he'll get it and he'll talk to his counselor, sponsor or group about tools to stop the behavior.

Now I don't talk to him about it because he says that it makes him want to drink.

He's manipulating you. That's NOT okay. Call him on it. You don't MAKE him anything. You don't have that kind of mind control over him.

Because this has been going on the entire relationship I know longer know what normal male behavior is and what SA behavior is.

I don't want to leave him if this is now normal male behavior.


There is no "normal" when you're dealing with a SA. Everything he says and does is run through his distorted filter. Period. Don't let him manipulate you that way. His thinking is completely distorted. No, it's NOT normal. He may be going to meetings but honestly I don't think he's very far into recovery. Does he have sponsors? He should. He should be working the steps for both. And he needs to see a CSAT. Going to meetings IS NOT enough. It's not. If he's just going to meetings and refusing to see an CSAT it's my opinion that he's "playing" at this. He thinks he can "manage and enjoy" his addictions. And I'll say it again, he's manipulating you.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 3:09 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

beagle lover,
His IC was surprised WH cut the porn out completely. He said cutting it out all together without methods in place to replace the ritual or identifying the triggers would likely cause set backs (similar to diets and cutting out all foods you like).
Instead he said to reduce to a normal amount (once a week for a few minutes if needed) if the urge is to great, while he is working on his stress and trigger issues.
I understand that he is encouraging weaning rather than cold turkey, but I don't know if this should be a red flag that this is not a good therapist.

Oh no. No, no, no, no, NO! Did I mention no? This is an indicator that your rSAH is not seeing a CSAT. This advice is completely and totally wrong. Bad. Horrible. Awful. Terrible. It's just WRONG.

Instead he said to reduce to a normal amount (once a week for a few minutes if needed) if the urge is to great, while he is working on his stress and trigger issues.

Seriously, there is NO NORMAL AMOUNT. I cannot stress this enough and my rSAH is saying the exact same thing. For a SA there IS NO NORMAL (or acceptable) amount. Would you tell an alcoholic that they can have a "normal" amount of alcohol per week?? What is normal? One drink? Ten? Would you think that an ADDICT could make that determination for himself? What is a "normal" amount of crack? What is a "normal" amount of hereon?

No, cold turkey is the ONLY way to do this. Period.

If your husband chose this therapist I suspect it's because he is trying to "manage and enjoy" his addiction. He is NOT trying to get sober and into recovery.

Again, I seriously doubt this counselor is a CSAT or knows anything about addiction at all (not just SA but ANY addiction) because that is just CRAZY.

It breaks my heart that you cannot find a actual CSAT in RI. But he's got to dump this moron and at least find someone who knows something about addiction, any addiction. This one obviously does not.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2br02b
MC is a certified Sex Therapist.

I just re-read this. Do you mean Certified Sex ADDICTION Therapist?

There is a huge difference between a the two.

A "Sex Therapist" is the LAST thing you guys need.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, June 10th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

totalblindsided

I sent my WH the link to www.sexhelp.com a couple of weeks ago. I asked him if he was going to counseling and he said yes, he is starting this week, but he did not find one through the website. He has yet to even look at the website and he is not admitting he has a problem. I know I shouldn't care, but I just can't help but feel that maybe if he got help, he would actually show some remorse for what he did. I'm having a really hard time coping with a 3+ year relationship and a six month marriage that he can just walk away from with no feelings.

Of course you care, your life had been shattered. Completely. Of course you care and you should and no one should be telling you otherwise. But know this: "You didn't cause it. You can't control it. You can't cure it." The 3 Cs. Learn them. Live by them.

You can only work on YOU. Seek counseling with someone who knows how to treat the spouse of a SA. Be kind to yourself. Be gentle and patient with yourself. You've been through a TRAUMA. You can't just shake that off.

He may or may not hit rock bottom and get help. There is nothing you can do about that. You've given him direction and encouragement. That's all you can do. By the time he gets into recovery (IF he does) you will probably have moved on. And frankly, you should. I know it hurts. I know you're sad. You are mourning the loss of all your dreams. I know.

{{{{hugs}}}}


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
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