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Newest Member: ThrownAwayTwice (43226)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
phillik
♂ New Member
Member # 16029
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, September 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to both of you. I don't know why - but that last post triggered something for me and I have a question.

I've been reading through here about the feelings of betrayl when the use of pornography was discovered.

I was awfully close to telling some folks to get over it... but I think I understand now.

This is painful - but here goes. My wife started collecting books about bondage, S&M, domination several years ago. She never hid them, I finally asked her to put them someplace less obvious (concern about my daughter).
Then I discovered lots of S&M sex toys. They weren't being used - I mean they just sat in the same place all the time - even got dusty.

When I finally said - hey - WTF? I had really struggled because I thought - hey, it's not my thing - but I'm willing to try anything if it is her interest (I know co-dependent).

I basically said I was ready to try anything. She very clearly said that this was something of a fantasy and that she wasn't interested in sharing it with me. Basically, not with you.

Ok - painful story, but the question is this - Is that how y'all felt when you discovered the extensive porn use? Left out?


Me: BS (40)
Her: WS (37)
1 D 12
Married 12 years 10 mos.
D-Day #1 Dec 24, 2004 (yep, Christmas Eve) OM#1
D-Day #2 Aug 11, 2007 (2 days before my b-day)OM#2

Posts: 14 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Austin, Texas
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, September 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, that's a big thing for me -- and though I understand on an intellectual level that this really had nothing to do with me, it still "gets" to me on an emotional level that clearly I couldn't be what turned my WH on. In my case, I could never be an anonymous stranger. He needed sex to feel dangerous in order for it to be exciting. He needed it to be preceded by hours of explicit chatting (frankly, I would've become bored after about three minutes of "oh, you're so huge..."). Truth is, I just don't get it. So yes, I do feel "left out" though I didn't know at the time how left out I really was. I never knew about the pornography -- never knew about any of it until I busted him having an affair with his assistant, an abusive ball-buster.
Sorry --don't know if I've answered your question. I guess the S&M stuff reminds me of some of what my WH has said. The degrading aspect, the shame. I'm trying to understand that, for my WH, who grew up with constant criticism and belittling (and still hears it routinely from his mother), being degraded feels "familiar". But maybe I don't understand pornography and S&M -- I see it as degrading to women (and men!), to others it's harmless fantasy.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
pebbles
♀ Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, September 5th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's one aspect of this that I never had to deal with. There's only a few times that I remember when WH ignored me when I was giving out all sorts of signals to be intimate.

The porn use was so extensive that even tho I wasn't rejected I had to work hard to get him ready.
So having sex with him became a turn off because he was out of gas for me. He didn't want to do anything to get me going it was too much work.

He had enough to do the porn but not enough for me. So I felt like a turn off because he needed the porn. I finally gave up and let him have his separate sex life and just went cold.

What's ironic is he did the porn and masturbating because he says that's the lazy way to have sex. Yet when I stopped working on him he took that as my not loving him anymore and used that excuse to have the A.


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
broken_heart
♀ New Member
Member # 5131
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, September 9th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ugh, I can't believe that I belong here. I haven't posted at SI in years, but here I am again.

WH and I are/were 3 years into R. On the first Dday (in '04) I accidentally came across a secret email account he had and found emails from women he was chatting with on AFF and AshleyMadison, I found really descriptive emails stating what he wanted to do to this one woman who lives close by, and how he can't wait till they finally meet. Then I found the email from after they met. I confronted him and we had a bunch of mini Ddays following that included him unloading all of his past affairs from when we were dating and engaged too. I also found a bunch (at least 5) of numbers of local girl's numbers that he tried to hide in the garbage a day after the first Dday.
He disclosed to me at home and in counselling that he masturbated about 10 times/day, used porn compulsively, all while he was supposed to be working in our home office (he is either at home working or away travelling when he works). He promised to stop...all of it, and we went to marriage counselling for a while. The counsellor told him that he needed to exercise impulse control, and yet never actually got into it with him. Instead, the sessions were directed at leveling the field for us b/c she felt I was being unfair to him and was holding too much power in the relationship. He now admits to manipulating the therapy sessions.

Forward three years later. I was starting to feel suspicious, but he gave me the usual "I swear I am not doing any of that anymore", so I believed him. I actually believed that I was being hypersensitive to everything and he let me believe that I was wrong in feeling suspicious.

I got suspicious (again) after he insisted that I go out shopping Friday morning, I got home and had a need to check his work computer.

His files were deleted for the entire day, but there were cookies for classified personals. I dug a little deeper and found that he was searching again for women in the cities he visits when away on business (he is in sales and travels a lot).

Here we go again...

I had already told him any of that behaviour was a deal breaker, but he is begging me to stay. Promises me that he will get proper treatment for SA, and will do anything for me to stay.

I don't know what to do. He knew that it was a deal breaker, and yet he put himself ahead of me and our four kids again.
I can honestly say that he is a good father, but I have lost any feelings of love/trust that I once had for him.

I'm scared and have no idea what to do. :( I feel trapped since I am a SAHM and don't have any income of my own. My kids adore their father, and I can't imagine what life would be like if I had to share my kids custody.

He wants me to stay long enough to see that he will get counselling for SA and for us to try and patch up the marriage.

Am I being duped again? My WH is a very skilled liar, and has no problem lying to me. The past three years have been hell...feeling sick every time he travels for fear that he is cheating again, checking his phone/computer/etc. I don't know if I can live like this anymore. I am physically ill from worrying about when he is going to slip up again.

*sigh* Sorry this is so long and rambling. I just finally found somewhere that I feel like I belong since I can't really relate to the LTA posts.

What are the chances that an SA can actually change enough to be in a successful marriage? I am skeptical. I don't even know if he is a SA or just a manipulative WH with NPD.

I don't know if I should cut my losses and run while I still have the chance, or stick it out with him and see what happens. I just don't know if I have the stomach to go through this again.

I guess I don't even really have a question. Just feeling lost, scared and hopeless.

[This message edited by broken_heart at 1:42 PM, September 9th (Sunday)]


Me (BS): 30
FWH : 32
4 children
Dday #1: Aug 4th, 2004
Dday #2: Sept 7th, 2007
--------------------

Posts: 29 | Registered: Aug 2004
pebbles
♀ Member
Member # 13870
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, September 9th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Addicts of any kind are great manipulators.

If you decide to give him this chance, make sure his counselor specializes in SA. He won't be able to manipulate a good counselor.

Your previous MC was wrong. You have done nothing wrong as far as his A's and SA goes. This leveling of the field was a bunch of crap. You have good reason to be angry and upset before and now.

Any porn, soft or hard is a deal breaker for me now that my WH is in counseling.

What you do now is up to you.

He needs to get counseling no matter what.


me: BS
Dday 7/23/05
This former rock has been blasted into a mound of pebbles.

Posts: 1283 | Registered: Mar 2007
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, September 9th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not sure I have much to add, but I also think it's key that he find someone that specializes in SA. And read whatever you can get your hands on (Patrick Carnes seems to be the acknowledged expert in the field of SA and has written some really good books) to see if it "feels" true to you. When I finally learned that I wasn't dealing with a single A with a co-worker, which frankly just never made sense to me, and that I was dealing with SA, in a weird way I was almost relieved. It made sense -- suddenly the puzzle pieces fell into place. It still sucked big time. But at least it felt like I knew what the problem really was and could, therefore, see that a solution existed.
So I agree that you should probably absorb this new bit of information and see what your husband does in the short term -- whether he keeps his pledge of getting appropriate help. Then you'll be in a better place to determine long-term choices.
Addictions are unbelievably powerful and can make otherwise kind-hearted, loving people do things that completely contradict their own value system. Addictions can also be a convenient excuse for lousy behaviour. Try and figure out what you're dealing with, then take it from there.
Hope that helps.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
phillik
♂ New Member
Member # 16029
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, September 9th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

broken_heart - wow does that ring a lot of bells. Sounds all too familiar.

If he's willing to get real treatment... I'm still in a place where I would try it. I agree with the others though that it has to be someone who understands the situation.

We went through 7 MCs- everyone of them "fired" us because my wife would not participate - she just sat there. I also had a counsellor (who supposedly specializes in sexual therapy needs) tell me that I was just too much and that I needed to learn to breathe. Lol, yeah that helps.

Beware the manipulation.


Me: BS (40)
Her: WS (37)
1 D 12
Married 12 years 10 mos.
D-Day #1 Dec 24, 2004 (yep, Christmas Eve) OM#1
D-Day #2 Aug 11, 2007 (2 days before my b-day)OM#2

Posts: 14 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Austin, Texas
phillik
♂ New Member
Member # 16029
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, September 9th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok - question to the group. I need to approach my WW with a request for full disclosure and an accountability plan. I could really use some advice. Any help? Is this maybe not the right thread?


Me: BS (40)
Her: WS (37)
1 D 12
Married 12 years 10 mos.
D-Day #1 Dec 24, 2004 (yep, Christmas Eve) OM#1
D-Day #2 Aug 11, 2007 (2 days before my b-day)OM#2

Posts: 14 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Austin, Texas
broken_heart
♀ New Member
Member # 5131
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, September 9th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone for your reply. I didn't notice before that this wasn't the forum for venting, so sorry if I hijacked it with my initial post.

I really value the advice you have given me, and I'm going to stick it out and see what therapy brings. I just ordered a bunch of books, including the ones suggested (Patrick Carnes).

It sucks to be here, and I'm sorry you're all here too, but it's nice to know I'm not alone.


Me (BS): 30
FWH : 32
4 children
Dday #1: Aug 4th, 2004
Dday #2: Sept 7th, 2007
--------------------

Posts: 29 | Registered: Aug 2004
jessjane
♀ Member
Member # 13981
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, September 10th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok, here goes...

MC and IC told me to get back into my life and diversify so that my H is not my life like he has been since D-day.

Today I start a new job, and my H goes back to school full time. It's back to "normal" life and we won't see eachother for most of the day. I hope he will stay sober and I hope that I will be able to find peace of mind.

I am feeling scared, but hopeful.

[This message edited by jessjane at 8:49 AM, September 10th (Monday)]


Me: BS, 28 yrs.
Him: WS, recovering SA, 28 yrs.

I love him, but I love myself, my sanity, and my happiness more.


Posts: 142 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Canada
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 11:04 AM, September 10th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

phillik -- my WH is preparing a "disclosure" with his SA IC (these acronyms are enough to make me even crazier!). Apparently there's some formal approach to this -- it helps both my WH come face to face with what he's done, but also gives me the info I need to feel that there are no more secrets. Our MC calls it "data exchange" and says that basically, once the info is all out there and the BS feels that all questions have been answered, then the brain will eventually tell itself that there's nothing new to be learned and will move on. This is how it works in theory -- I'll let you know if this is what happens in reality. Though I think it is starting to work.

jessjane -- good luck with all the changes. Scary, I'm sure. But good for both of you, I hope.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
broken_heart
♀ New Member
Member # 5131
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, September 10th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

phillik, i'd really like to hear about what goes into an accountability plan.

jessjane, I hope the new job is going well.

Eternaloptimist I like the "data exchange" idea. It would really help with piercing facts together (something I have had a need to do since Dday#1).


Me (BS): 30
FWH : 32
4 children
Dday #1: Aug 4th, 2004
Dday #2: Sept 7th, 2007
--------------------

Posts: 29 | Registered: Aug 2004
unforgetting
♀ New Member
Member # 14785
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, September 13th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

o.k. the initial post about discovery of the S&M toys triggered a connect for me...my WS had gone to a certain massage therapist for foot worshipping 2X a mon/over 2 yrs- essentially she would wear stripper shoes, he would kiss & worship her feet and it would end ina hand job - . The talk about the WS being a "criticized child" etc & therefore this degrading behaviour "feeling comfortable" for someone feels very comparable to my situations: beliddling yourself to kissing the dirt off a prostitutes foot. He said I was never "into it" - true - could not see ongoing satisfaction based on my feet being worshipped (sorry I prefer the missionary position :)) still gets throwns into my face "Well there are those that like their feet worshiped etc etc; "this drove me there", etc etc. etc.
Anyhow, long story short, this feels like the same situation - foot worshpping whores, S&M, : Can anyone enlighten me further. My husband suffers from low self esteme, a dictatorial father, has been inemplyed for 2 yrs etc etc etc. If we participate in these fetishes its codependence - if we dont they cheat on us : how do you win???

Posts: 35 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Toronto
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, September 14th (Friday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

unforgetting -- you're right. You can't win because you're dealing with someone who's very unhealthy and looking for a way --any way -- to justify what he wants/needs. I remember when I first found out, I spoke with the SA counsellor (a recovered SA, himself) that my WH had already found. When I asked what these people (the ones my WH had been with) had that I didn't, he said to me "What they have that you don't is NOTHING you'd ever want. They're very sick people." That helped me a lot and I remind myself of it whenever I start to play the "what's wrong with me" game. And I hate seeing people beat themselves up thinking they could have stopped the acting out behaviour of their WS. This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with your WS's unhealthy ways of coping with stress, anxiety, low self-esteem, and so on. It's his problem...but, of course, it's causing you a lot of pain.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
momofthree2007
♀ Member
Member # 14766
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, September 20th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all. I know I haven't posted here in a while. H and I are pretty much R'ed, however, we still haven't completely healed from his A's. I realize is going to take at least a year to fully heal from this. The problem we're really going through is that he can't get over how I got pregnant so soon after having our daughter. I know it takes 2 to make a baby but the thing is, he told me to take the pill and I was so confident that the depo shot wouldn't wear off since I was still under the effect for 5 months. It wore off and that's how I ended uo being pregnant with my twins. The pattern that led to his cheating also had to do with me withdrawing emotionally because he wouldn't stop jumping on me. My FIL is also really upset because he's helping H financially. He warned us not to allow this to happen and he can't let go either. Me being pregnant with twins was just the icing on the cake. Make no mistake about it, he loves his grandchildren, he just thinks we were irresponsible. In retrospect, my H and my FIL had a right to be upset, I just wish H would finally let it go, since I have already acknowledged that fact. Last night H and I had a long talk. We had to be honest with ourselves. When our daughter was born, it was wonderful, however, we both regret not giving each other enough time to bond as newly weds. I was very immature at the time and I thought having a baby would increase the joy in our marriage. It brought joy but it weakened the marriage as well. With just our daughter, things were actually pretty good, sometimes even better than when we were newly weds, but when I was pregnant again, that just drove a wrench on our plans and things really went downhill. Mind you, the pattern that led to him cheating began 3 months before I was pregnant again and that just sped it up! After that, our relationship was thrown into the backburner for a while. Thankfully, H has taken responsibility for his actions and he's still working on solving his sex addiction. We're reading this book called "Every Heart Restored". It's written for couples, especially those that are dealing with sex addictions. It's very eye opening. Our issues with the kids are due to the fact that we're both very tired because the twins are still not sleeping through the night. Hopefully things will get better by then...


H - XWH (32) RSA
D-Day 1, OW1: 3/20/07
D-Day 2. OW2: 6/24/07
Divorced, 08/23/2012
Married 7 years, together 9
One day fling each; online As turned physical physical

Posts: 491 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Florida
samgie
Member
Member # 16010
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, September 24th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is my spouse a sa? Here is his history. Heavy flirting with other woman in work place. EA 5 years ago. Plenty of Prostitutes for the last year and a half. Another EA this past summer. He even asked me to join a swingers club last year...no way!
How do I broach this subject with him and do you think he has an sa problem?
Help on the last leg of my marriage with three beautiful little kids!!!!

Posts: 134 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: ft. lauderdale
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, September 24th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Samgie --

I'm no expert but know more about this than I wish I had to!
I don't know that anyone else can know if your WH is SA. From what I understand, it's the compulsion that makes someone an addict. Just like you can see someone drinking and not really know if he/she is alcoholic or just tying one on... The answer lies, I think, in the motivation behind the behaviour, more than the behaviour itself. My WH realized himself that he's SA after taking a few online quizzes. He didn't like the answers so kept taking them -- finally had to admit to himself, when the kept coming up with the same result of SA, that he did in fact have a problem and it wasn't just that he "liked sex."


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
katiej
♀ Member
Member # 14724
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, September 24th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted on the multiple A forum in ICR with this question but haven't gotten a response. Maybe you experts can help me.

Do you ever read posts in multiple A or ONS or in the other areas as well and think - I wonder if their WS is a SA and just hasn't been identified?

My FWH looked at some porn but not excessively. He joined single dating sites, chatted, ended up meeting some women. Met a couple women in bars, exchanged business cards then emails and chatted before meeting up again months later for PA's. Had a 1 1/2 year A with one OW. All except one of these happened within a 2 year span after his father died.

After reading all of the info and hearing from the IC that she thinks he is an SA, he finally admits that he is. My question is, so much of what he did seems so similar to so many others that don't seem to identify with the SA "diagnosis". Do you think that there are a multitude of others on SI who are but either don't know enough about it to call themselves that, or won't admit it?

The SAA group has been a wonderful support for my FWH even though their addictions are more for porn, masturbation, prostitutes, and anonymous sex and he wasn't into that. But, it establishes a safe place to talk, it rebuilds shattered self-esteem, and helps him to know that he did "bad" things but he is a worthwhile human being and is not a bad person.

Any thoughts?


First d-day Oct. '06. 3 more after that.
He is working hard. We are R.

Posts: 479 | Registered: May 2007
jessjane
♀ Member
Member # 13981
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, September 25th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had a triggering experience last night, when a female SA accidentally attended our S-Anon group. After I had already shared, she told us her story (very triggering for me) and said she didn't belong in our group.

Here's the thing...she is now going to be the first female in my H's SA group, and will be going for the first time tonight. I know the group is for everyone to get their healing. I don't want anyone to miss out on the healing that they are looking for. So I feel like a real B@#%* because I don't want her going to my H's meeting. I feel so threatened. She is also pretty and young. I feel like a horrible person for this

I know it is ultimately HIS boundaries and recovery that is going to determine what happens, and that this has nothing to do with her, and that I can't control it. I also know that there are many women who may be SA around him at school everyday and I can't do anything about them either. I can't help feeling threatened and sick about it, though.

Does anyone else's partner go to a mixed group? How is it working out?

[This message edited by jessjane at 10:22 AM, September 25th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS, 28 yrs.
Him: WS, recovering SA, 28 yrs.

I love him, but I love myself, my sanity, and my happiness more.


Posts: 142 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Canada
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, September 25th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((hugs, everyone!))))

I just want to say that I triggered walking into the store WH works at yesterday.
As I looked around...at women/men there...I thought:
OMG! EVERYONE IS FAIR GAME FOR HIM!

So glad he's OUT.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

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