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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, May 7th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Betrayed-
It must be so nerve wracking for you! Worrying about whether or not your children will be safe with your ex.
My mom was an alcoholic so I know what that is like from the kid's perspective.
Will you have a chance to speak at the court hearing? or is this just something that is between her and the court?
Hopefully, the judge will be cautious in terms of the decision.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, May 8th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480,

from what I gather I can constest her request and mostly likely a GAL will be appointed to see what is in the best interest of the children. I'm not sure they will see the risks and since she does have almost a year dry, give her what she wants. Maybe, I'm not giving the xWW enough credit for her accomplishment. I know to do it must have been hard as bad as her alcoholism is.

I can only hope the xWW stays dry and/or the courts don't give her total unsupervised visitation up front.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, May 17th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've heard that an alcoholic gets 'stuck' at the age that they started their addiction.

My counselor says they can actually regress as the disease gets worse. I think I have seen some of that, too.

I've been reading a book, "Beyond the Influence" about the physiological effects of alcoholism, and it's really making me think. My WS has been drinking heavily for decades, and I know he's an alcoholic. He isn't going to AA, and has even gotten a counselor to "diagnose" him as NOT an alcoholic, as if she could!! So quitting is not something he is even trying.

He's already cheated horribly (with at least 15 prostitutes), and I think he's a sex addict as well. So what possible good could be in my future? I've been living "one day at a time" and I will keep doing it, but where do you set aside time to try to decide to leave or not? Does that just come to you over time? If I meditate, will it come to me there?

I just hope I am not still blocking my view of a ten foot wall in front of me that has all the writing on it I need, if I would just glance up....


Posts: 1059 | Registered: Aug 2010
Very, very tired
♀ Member
Member # 26244
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, May 20th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what possible good could be in my future? I've been living "one day at a time" and I will keep doing it, but where do you set aside time to try to decide to leave or not? Does that just come to you over time? If I meditate, will it come to me there?

Those are the questions I ask myself. I've come to accept that inaction is still an action.

From those who have gone before me, I hear that I will know when I know. The answer will be clear. For me, staying right here is what I need to be doing.

There is no right choice. You heal with them or you heal without them--either way, you still have to heal.


BW (in the 40 yr old range)
2 kids
Happily married 20 years--or so I thought. Divorcing and finding a new life for myself. WooHoo!!!!!



Posts: 1917 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Somewhere North of Hell
pobble
♀ New Member
Member # 32061
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, May 25th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For those of you with spouses who are willing to see a counselor, are these regular counselors or addiction specialists? What have your experiences been?

Posts: 12 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Lothlorien
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, May 25th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pobble,

Before the A and when my xWW first tried treatment for alcoholism the counselor told her that if there were any other problems, she couldn't work on them until she had the alcoholism dealt with. After D-day and I was trying to figure out what to do I asked her counselor for her suggestion on a counselor, she gave me the name of a group that was good and told me to ask for someone who dealt with addictions rather tha just a regular marriage counselor. Alcoholism is the elephant in the room that has to be dealt with before anything else.

My xWW quit seeing counselors if they didn't say what she wanted to hear. I hope your spouse is more receptive. It is hard for an alcoholic to face that they are their problem, not you, their job, the phase of the moon or anything else they can shift responsibility to. I hope your spouse will.

I truly hope that your spouse will get help so you two can move forward. But, it is not an easy process nor is it a quick process. Others here who have R with their alcoholic indicate it took a year of not drinking before they could begin to believe their alcoholic. The counselor told us that it took up to 3 years for the brain to return to normal.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Very, very tired
♀ Member
Member # 26244
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, May 25th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pobble, I can't fully answer your question but I'll give you my experience.

My WH refuses IC. So, I go. And I go to an IC who is an addiction specialist. I'm not an addict, but having someone who deals with addicts and their families is such an amazing experience--time and money well spent. It makes such a difference talking to someone who knows all the tricks and treats of addiction.

My first IC was good, but she didn't not have the experience my new IC has.


BW (in the 40 yr old range)
2 kids
Happily married 20 years--or so I thought. Divorcing and finding a new life for myself. WooHoo!!!!!



Posts: 1917 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Somewhere North of Hell
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, May 27th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For those of you with spouses who are willing to see a counselor, are these regular counselors or addiction specialists? What have your experiences been?

Pobble,

In my situation, my WS likes our marriage counselor but didnít like the addiction specialist we saw briefly (regarding our sonís drug issue). The reason for this is, in my opinion, that he doesn't want to own up to his addictions. Iíve seen the addiction guy alone a few times to help me deal with WSís alcohol situation and Iíve seen how the marriage counselor deals with WS.

The difference between the two therapists is big. I like both for different reasons. The marriage counselor is good at getting to the FOO issues, which do underlie the drinking problem. The addiction specialist really does lay it all on the line in very simple direct terms, though. And I think the addict NEEDS that. While the marriage counselor is helping my WS with a lot of issues, he isnít using any 2 X 4ís, and I think a few are necessary for alcoholics. I sure see 2 X 4ís being wielded about in AA meetings, for those that do show up!!! (My WS only went to two AA meetings, and is still drinking)

My IC tells me that it is difficult to deal with marriage issues while there is an addiction present. So I feel I am biding my time on the true marriage work until WS addresses his addictions. In the meantime, I have plenty of work to do on myself, so that is what I am doing.

My advice to you would be that if you have a choice in who he sees, go with the addiction person first.

Betrayed,

My xWW quit seeing counselors if they didn't say what she wanted to hear.

This sounds like my WS. He is manipulative and has even gotten a couple of counselors to write up things about him!!! He then waves those papers in my face as if they ďproveĒ something to me. They donít. His actions tell me everything I need to know. The addictions counselor I mentioned above? WS wonít go to him as he knows he will address issues head on. Same thing with a CSAT that WS went to see. He just ďdidnít like himĒ. He mentioned to me that the fellow was trying to hold him accountable for things. Imagine that!

Very Very,

My WH refuses IC. So, I go. And I go to an IC who is an addiction specialist. I'm not an addict, but having someone who deals with addicts and their families is such an amazing experience--time and money well spent. It makes such a difference talking to someone who knows all the tricks and treats of addiction.

I agree with this! I have only seen the addictions counselor twice by myself, and I got a world of good out of those sessions. He gets right to the core of the issue immediately. He is a recovering alcoholic himself so he knows what he is talking about. I plan to return to him when I have done work on my boundaries, so that we can discuss them and get them to be where they need to be. Heís already helped me get a boundary in place that has made home life livable for our family again. Heís that good!!

I also see a CSAT (for sex addictions) for me. WS wonít go but I know I can and I know I need the help to deal with what heís done. Thatís been a huge help for me. As have my 12-step meetings.

Hope this helps!


Posts: 1059 | Registered: Aug 2010
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, May 27th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Compartmented,

It was recommended to me to also see an IC that specilaized in addictions even though I'm not an addict. The first IC I saw turned out to be one my xWW had seen in group. She had stopped going to group, so the IC agreed to see me. She couldn't reveal anything said in group, but stated it was interesting to hear the same incidences from the two different perspectives. After the next relapse the xWW's doctor (addiction specialist) ordered her back into group. IC said she could see us both if xWW agreed and thought she could be very effective. My xWW did not want this at all. I'm certain she only wanted one side of a story told and didn't want the IC to see the other side.

So I went to another IC in the group that also worked with addictions. I was even more pleased with this counselor. She didn't let me accept the guilt that xWW have been piling on for the alcoholism or the A. I needed the 2x4's this person used more readily than the first. I remember once telling the IC that xWW had told me she couldn't come back as it was a risk to her sobriety. The IC about fell out of her chair. She chastised me for even considering that as the reason. She reminded me xWW had relapsed 6 times after leaving and I wasn't there for any of them. She said an alcoholic will never accept responsibility and is always looking to project it out to something else. I definitely benefited from seeing an addiction specialist IC and would suggest it to anone dealing with an alcoholic or addict.

I agree nothing can be worked on until the addiction is under control. Even though my xWW has been dry for a year she still doesn't have the changed behavior to demonstrate true recovery. She still doesn't own her problem. Her father, a recovered alcoholic of 15+ years, told me that.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 7:24 AM, May 28th (Saturday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
lostinlove4ever
♀ Member
Member # 27421
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, June 12th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this on the Divorce/Separation forum as well.

My new counselor is an expert on alcoholism and after we've discussed my WH's behaviors and the fact that he's an alcoholic she wants me to do an intervention. I don't know what good that will do since as far as I know some alcoholics will not look for help unless they've hit rock bottom.

The only thing I get from him once in a while now are the "I need to get help or I need to attend AA meetings"

He hasn't seen the kids in 2wks and the last time he was I said no because he was going to pick them up at 10pm drunk.

Do they ever realize what they're doing?


BW: 33 (me) WH:36
Children: 11yr & 4yr
Separated for 4yrs, soon to be D.

Posts: 905 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Los Angeles
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, June 14th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((lostinlove4ever)))

I'm no expert. I have had to deal with an alcoholic. In my situation there was no helping her and she was resentful of anything I did calling me controlling. Until she lost her job, custody of her children, and marriage did she finally stop drinking. She hasn't accept responsibility for for her problem. Until a person is willing to do that an intervention may help them stop drinking, but will they have the ability to accept they are their problem and make the changes in their life to have long term sobriety???

Take care of yourself and your children. That's all you have control over.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
lostinlove4ever
♀ Member
Member # 27421
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, June 15th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed1012~ Thank you. Every time I tried to help I was called controlling.

2wks ago I drove around town with my kids looking for him until he finally answered drunk. That was my last straw.

No more.


BW: 33 (me) WH:36
Children: 11yr & 4yr
Separated for 4yrs, soon to be D.

Posts: 905 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Los Angeles
Khandita
♀ Member
Member # 17596
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, June 27th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEw to this Forum, so old to this situation. LAst night, before we went to a graduation party for a friend, I asked him how long will we stay? Will he be able to do anything when we get home? (Other than pass out.) We have a disabled child going off to college in the fall and lots of loose ends to tie up, our to do list is endless...) Anyway, he says we will leave at 6:00. I left alone at 7:30. I think he got home at 10? Anyway, after DDAY he he had dialed all the "partying" way down and it was awesome, I actually wanted to write the OW a thank-you! Well, I see the old pattern re-emerging. I hated staying out with him, sitting in smoky bars while he and his friends partied and talked about they game. So I stoppped and that's when he had an A. I'm lost, 3 great kids, I feel they would suffer so much from a D. I can't ask him to stop drinking. Hell, he has a wine cellar stocked. I just want a better future. I deserve it.?


ME BS 49
FWH 46
DDAY: 7/07
Healing and Happy!

Posts: 213 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Midwest
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, June 27th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Khandita-
You do NOT deserve this.
I dealt with that type of irresponsible behavior for years.When my children were little (in the pre-cell phone days) my husband would stop for happy hour after work and end up never calling me (because he didn't want me to remind him that maybe he should be at home instead of sitting on a bar stool!).
The children and I would wait and wait for him to show up for dinner....meanwhile, he would stagger in at all hours of the night.
The next day he would be quiet (and hung over) I would alternately yell or nag at him or other times just detach and give him the cold shoulder, then a few days would pass and he would be on track again..engaged with the family... I would be back to normal again...and then...he would do it again!
Binge drink.
I always knew he had a drinking problem...but on the other hand I did not know how serious the problem was.
I also did not know that most alcoholics end up having an affair.
Who knew? I certainly didn't.
That was his one claim to fame... He even used to say things like that to me as a way to apologize..kind of saying I may be bad about this going out with the guys business but at least I would never cheat on you!
I believed that was the one redeeming thing he had....
and then... after 25 yrs of marriage he meets his match-another alcoholic, immoral, toxic married serial cheater..and he embarked on a 5 yr LTA with this 'drinking buddy' turned sex partner.
For me.. d-day was hitting bottom. I was crushed. I was an emotional wreck. I was done!
I kicked him out of the house (in spite of his pleas to give him another chance), changed the locks and filed for divorce!
I was finished...this was the one thing that I thought I could count on from him.
Now, I realize that you cannot count on alcoholics or addicts for anything.. their addiction makes them incredibly selfish... or actually it may be the other way around.. they are selfish to begin with and the addiction makes them even more so!
Well... d-day...and all of the aftermath... my husband finding himself alone in a hotel room and a wife that has filed for divorce...
that was his bottom as well.

It was as if he was as shocked by d-day as I was.
That was how great his denial was.
He could compartmentalize and not think about his behavior to that extent.
It wasn't until he was faced with losing me, our marriage, our life....that it made him finally take a long look at himself and the direction his life had taken.

He stopped drinking right after d-day and went to AA-90 meetings in 90 days. He also went to IC (2x per week for 6 months and then 1x per week for another year).

We were separated for 6 months. But, after 3 months I agreed to try MC with him because of all the changes I saw and the hard work he was doing.
After 5 months I let him move back home and we have been working on reconciling ever since.
AA was life altering for my husband.
He tried a few different meetings at first until he found one that was a good fit for him (each meeting can have a slightly different feel based on the regulars who go to that meeting). He also has a fantastic sponsor/mentor...a man that had over 20 yrs of sobriety..was married...a bit older than him..but, has been a wonderful role model.

In many ways my husband is a changed man-his entire way of looking at the world is changed. He is kinder, more patient, much less selfish, loving.
He no longer socializes with any of his former toxic friends/co-workers etc.

His marriage and his family are his top priorities.

Here is a list of books that I found very helpful:

Reclaim Your Family From Addiction by Craig Nakken

Marriage On the Rocks by Wotitz

The Addictive Personality by Craig Nakken

The Courage To Change-One Day at a Time in ALANON II.

Have you tried going to an ALANON meeting ?

[This message edited by njgal480 at 3:39 PM, June 27th (Monday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, July 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Off to court to respond to alcoholic X's request to modify the decree. She wants unsupervised visitation. She has a year of not drinking. During this time she has not looked for a job because "it would be risk to her sobriety". She's a PhD and could earn more than I do, but that's not my concern. When with her at her mother's the children have no rules. My son who has ADD and depression and anxiety due to his alcoholic mother disappearing on drunks with the OM, a friend from detox and AA is allowed to play computer games, Wii and DS all day. The pediatrician said no more than 2 hours. He's 11 and sleeping in the same bed as his mother and 6 yr old sister, yet there is another room available. She can't help him with his school projects her mother does... she was a tenured college professor until tenminated for going off on multiple drunks with OM!

Lawyer told me this just a prelim hearing. That a GAL will be appointed if I object to any changes to the decree. Still I worry the court will only look at the physical endangerment, not the emotional damage that has and is being done.

Our son is in counseling every 2 weeks or so. He went from A-B student to failing. He is challenging to deal with. IF holding a job is a risk to her sobriety how can deal with him without her mother there. The children need a mother, not another friend.

I feel she is still an alcoholic at heart. Deceitful and never accepting responsiblity. All her problems are someone or something else's fault. If everything is such a risk to her sobriety how can she say she's stable enough to care for the children without her mother as a backup?


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Jayne Doe
♀ Member
Member # 32664
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, July 7th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband is an alcoholic. But this post isn't about him - it's about what I learned from a former alcoholic.

A customer, who became a friend - just a friend, once was an alcoholic. I would talk to him about my hubby. This is what he told me...

You can't make someone stop drinking. Don't bother yelling at him or trying to force him to quit. Don't count the number of drinks. When you do that, all you are doing is making them mad, making their drinking even more important.
The way an alcoholic stops is when they hit bottom, and they want to change. You don't know what the bottom is, neither do they until it happens.

This guy moved his family cross country and opened up a successful sports bar chain.
He was drinking heavily, his wife did most of the work. Everything she did was 'wrong', and he belittled her all the time. Then one day she had a stroke, in her 40's. She ended up disabled and in a wheelchair. That was his bottom. He had to live with that for the rest of his life.
He's gone now. RIP Mr. A. and thank you for sharing that with me.

I don't know if losing me and everything my WH has had for the last 30 yrs will be his bottom, but I do know that until he gets some help - R seems impossible.


Everyday is a blank canvas, and only you hold the brush.
30y M traded in for a POM (pathetic Old Maid 46, 2 kids from different dads. never married)
S 11/11, D final 1/14.

Posts: 1454 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Suburbia, Arizona
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, July 7th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree. I think R is impossible with an alcoholic unless they get sober. And I doubt losing a spouse is bottom for a person who is willing to cheat. So there you go.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, July 7th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Jayne Doe)))

I agree with m334455 that it is impossible to R with an alcoholic that isn't working on active recovery. Just not drinking is far from active recovery or being sober it is just dry. Others have taken it further to say that even after they quit drinking it takes a year or more before you can trust what an alcoholic says. From my experience with my xWW I'd say that is a minimum and no guarantee. If an alcoholic just stops drinking, but doesn't change behavior then they are merely a dry drunk with the same selfish, self centered ways.

You can't count on losing a spouse or custody of their children or their job as being the bottom. Some people never have a bottom. Some just stop drinking, but continue to blame everything and everyone else around them for their problems and never accept responsibility and be accountable for their actions.

I wish you the best with your situation.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, July 7th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed-
I think that you should write a letter to the judge describing all of the things you just did in your post.
I cannot imagine that any child welfare professional would think that your alcoholic WW should have custody.

and about the dry drunk. that is so true.
Stopping drinking does not mean that someone is sober. They can still have very toxic thinking. AA helped my husband so much. He has definitely changed in very many ways.
I also say the same is true for infidelity. Just stopping an affair is not enough. The WS has to change his/her toxic thinking and behaviors in order to save the marriage.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, July 7th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480,

Thanks for your support. My xWW is nowhere near seeking custody. She has no job, nor is she looking for one. To have the children full time would cut into her new lifestyle and freedom. She wants unsupervised visits. But, I'm not convinved that's good for the children. I told the judge my concerns at the hearing and he appointed a GAL to represent the children's best interest. Hopefully this person will do a thorough investigation. I have documented much of what has gone on with supervision. I can't imagine what it would be like without her mother there.

I wouldn't object if she was being a good parent to changing the supervision. No matter what the relationship between us, our children need a mother.

Thanks again for your support and that of all the others here.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
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