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User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, January 27th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the reply...all things I need to keep hearing, all things I know to be true but wish they weren't.

Someone else on this site suggested online meetings, and I am looking into it this weekend when I have some time to really commit to it fully.

I thought he would hit bottom when I asked him to leave, but it seems to have backfired, as he is now on the dating sites and becoming more distant and cold toward me. At this point, I feel hopeless, and think I made a mistake in asking him to leave and filing for divorce. My kids and I just couldn't deal with it anymore.

I have heard through "friends" that he has told them that he just wishes the D was final already, and do they have anyone that they can hook him up with. He denies saying this, and he may very well have been drunk when he said it, but I do believe he said it, and that hurts more than I can put into words.

He is highly manipulative, and knows how to push every button I possess, and uses that to the Nth degree, daily. Meanwhile, I'm at home with 3 kids, losing my house, my H, and my life as I knew it.

I am to blame as well as he is. After so many years of drinking and verbal abuse, then an A, I became resentful, angry, and I withdrew almost completely. I have issues that I need to work on as well, and I am, but he just won't get on the bus.

Thanks for your advice. I definitely need it!

[This message edited by MzMagoo at 5:11 PM, January 27th (Thursday)]


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:29 PM, January 27th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't feel guilty about asking him to leave.

You said it all when you said "My kids and I couldn't deal with it anymore."

You have to do what is best for you and your children.

If he is toxic and is creating an unhealthy home environment for the kids, then, you have to take steps to protect them and yourself.

I am sorry that he has been saying such awful things to his friends.

It sounds as if he is very toxic right now and not at all serious about saving the marriage or doing any work on himself.
Do you have any family that you can turn to for help and support?

Please try an ALANON group.
You do not have to make any kind of commitment to attend the meetings.
Try googling ALANON and see if there are any meetings in your area.
So sorry for your pain.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, January 27th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Toxic" is exactly how I would describe our home life.

My mother is my only real family (I have an older sister, but we don't get along very well), and she up and moved to a different state last summer. I was devestated, as I have never lived more than 10 miles from my mom. She is planning to move back in April. For that I am beyond grateful. My parents went through a nasty divorce when I was 13, so she can provide some solace.

Other than her, I have no one to talk to really. I don't have many friends because I spent so many years having to be the responsible one, the one always at home to take care of the house and the kids. Plus, I never wanted to invite anyone over because you never know what can happen if he drinks too much.

It is so very hard to love an alcoholic. The A and the recent dating activities are just cementing the fact that he is, at the moment, only capable of thinking of himself. And realistically, that may never change. I am trying to prepare myself for that.

Thank you for the advice. It is beyond appreciated.


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
phoenix_vs
♀ Member
Member # 29193
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, January 27th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ouch. They all have affairs eventually? Well, that explains why I feel my WBF has not been faithful to me during the five years we've been together. He's been through rehab several times, the most recent about three years ago, but he won't, can't stay sober. Many things that you are going through, I am, too.


I'm not sad that you lied to me. I'm sad that I can never believe you again.

Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.


Posts: 371 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Great Falls Montana
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, January 27th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So sorry, Phoenix. I wouldn't wish the way I feel on anyone; I'd wish death before this.

WH says he wants to quit drinking, and has said that for years; I believe him, but he can't on his own, and he knows this. He is supposed to be trying some new medication that supposedly helps with the cravings, a "miracle drug". I want him sober, for himself, for his kids, me, and the family. But it also scares the crap out of me because I think that with how angry he is at me, and with his current activities, that he will get sober and realize that he hates me and wants no part of me or a life with his family. I try hard not to think about that, and I feel awful for thinking it because he is a good man, and I want him sober for him. He hasn't had an easy life. He deserves some peace.

As you can tell, I am pretty conflicted, which really doesn't help things one bit!

I seem to find myself on here quite a bit, so if you ever need an ear, don't hesitate to PM me. I could use a friend who understands!


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
phoenix_vs
♀ Member
Member # 29193
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, January 27th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something that has helped me is to realize that, the anger they portray towards us is just them not owning their own shit. They always blame someone else. Read some of the other posts. They all talk about the alcoholic not taking any responsibility. And who is the easiest to blame? The one closest. You. Me.
We didn't cause it. We can't control it. We can't cure it. All we can control is ourselves. I watch WBF self-destruct, and there is nothing I can do to stop it.
I'm on here most every day. It's good to have someone to talk to.

[This message edited by phoenix_vs at 10:09 PM, January 27th (Thursday)]


I'm not sad that you lied to me. I'm sad that I can never believe you again.

Well, I'm sad that you lied to me, too.


Posts: 371 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Great Falls Montana
Fighting2Survive
♀ Member
Member # 28410
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, January 28th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((MzM)))

I just want to echo njgal's advice.

Our first MC fired us. I was floored by that, but I understand why. FWH was still drinking and lying. He had stopped the A, but he was lying about it actually happening. MC tripped him up on several lies and just stopped the session cold-turkey. He said that until FWH got sober and decided to be honest, MC was pointless.

I left and went completely NC two weeks later after finding the drugs. That was the absolute single best move I could have made- for my own sanity and my child.

As long as you allow him to draw you in and as long as you are willing to tolerate the blame-shifting, empty promises and mood swings he will keep the game up. You are his security blanket. FWH counted on me to clean up his messes and for years he would make just enough promises and minor changes to keep me hooked. The game was over the day I walked out that door.

Your FWH may change or he may not, but you deserve more. I wasted so many years trying fix him. Don't do the same.


Me: BW, 40.......Him: FWH, 40
D-day: 3-22-10
DS1: 11, DS2: crawling
Status: R going well

"When you can tell the story and it doesn't bring up any pain, you know it is healed." - Iyanla Vanzant, Broken Pieces


Posts: 7279 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: NC
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, January 28th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Phoenix and Mz M-
Have your husbands gone to AA meetings?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 1:52 AM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine has gone to a total of 2 AA meetings; he was drunk both times.

Tonight I am feeling very very hopeless. He told me tonight that he is happy living alone, and that he is happy with all his women friends, that he is drinking a lot less, and that he is only concerned with himself. He said that. Then I asked him what he wanted, and he said, to have fun.

He said he is done. Told me to leave, to get away. He said he wished I would date.

He is gone. There is no hope at this point; he won't even talk to me.

Now what?!?! As I posted in another thread, I feel old, stupid, unloved, and unlovable, like I caused all this, and because of that, I will be alone for the rest of my life. It is awful to feel this way.

How do I come to terms with the fact that I have given 18 years of support to him; I have endured violence, verbal abuse, etc., etc., etc., and he is happy without me?


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mz M-
I am so sorry that he said those things to you.
It never ceases to amaze me about how cruel people can be.

He gave you your answer about R.

He is a toxic, selfish, alcoholic...IMHO the OW can have him.

She gets a lying, cheating, abusive, alcoholic... yayy for her...
My guess is that the OW is also an alcoholic.

Mz M....
you have to take care of yourself.
Are you going to IC?
Sending you some long distance hugs.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((njgal)))

I am in IC...I've only been twice thus far; I go again next week. I may have to find a new therapist though. She is very...what's the word? Pitying? That doesn't help me. I don't want pity. I need strength. So I will go another time, and see if my feelings about her change. If not, I'm on the hunt again for a new one.

I started taking care of myself first thing this morning. I took the kids to a breakfast I can't afford, and now I am going to the bookstore to browse until I can't browse no more.

Sleep, shower, eat, play with kids, vent, vent, vent, cry, cry , cry.

Sing: "I Will Survive"

Thank you for the support, it is beyond needed.


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
Fighting2Survive
♀ Member
Member # 28410
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MzM,

I may have to find a new therapist though. She is very...what's the word? Pitying? That doesn't help me. I don't want pity. I need strength.

Just a thought... there's another member here who found a substance abuse counselor who works with spouses. She has spoken very highly of the IC's approach since he encourages Al-Anon and addressing co-dependence issues. I just wanted to mention this in case it was more in line with what you are looking for.

My IC specializes in PTSD so I haven't worked with a substance abuse counselor. Later on, after I've dealt with some of the more pressing issues I have, I'm thinking it would be helpful to me.

[This message edited by Fighting2Survive at 12:46 PM, January 29th (Saturday)]


Me: BW, 40.......Him: FWH, 40
D-day: 3-22-10
DS1: 11, DS2: crawling
Status: R going well

"When you can tell the story and it doesn't bring up any pain, you know it is healed." - Iyanla Vanzant, Broken Pieces


Posts: 7279 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: NC
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is a fabulous idea, thank you! I will look into it today! I can use all the help I can get at this point!


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MzMagoo,

Big hugs to you!! Your life sounds so much like mine!!

My WS has been an alcoholic for decades. He is high functioning as well. I see a MC with WS, and alone, who has helped me (and us) so very much. He is probably the only reason that my marriage survived the last year, no lie. I also see an individual counselor just for me, and she is very helpful to me. My WS is a sex addict (in my opinion, not his!), so I also see a CSAT to help me heal and understand the sex addiction stuff. Also, in our MC's practice, there is a substance addiction specialist. I spoke with him about my children earlier, and finally I just booked an appointment with him about my husband and it was so refreshing to see his view on the whole thing. (He is a recovering alcoholic) He was very clear about how VERY sick my husband is. In that one session, he really helped me to see things in a way that have made a huge difference for me and my marriage.

I am sure I look like I see too many therapists. I have never seen one in my life before last year!!! I guess my point is that a substance abuse counselor that sees partners may be the strongest first step for you.

I'm so sorry that he is being so mean. Mine is incredibly hurtful to me, all the while saying he's always loved me. It is crazy-making to live with them when they are lying to you. I feel like they are so messed up that they truly cannot understand anyone else's feelings. Does that help? To know that he really doesn't understand how hurtful he is being?

PM me anytime! And I will see you on the 180 train, too.

Hang in there.


Posts: 1056 | Registered: Aug 2010
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I completely understand the need for therapists, (plural). I go to just the 2 right now, but every time I leave, I feel better. It may not last long, but I take something out of the office with me each time.

Yes, it does help to know that he just doesn't get it. He never has. He has never understood that you just don't treat people that way. You certainly don't treat your partner that way.

I spent a lot of time last night, and into the wee hours, thinking about all the horrible things that he has done to me over the years, and I realized something. Yesterday, after our little episode, I realized that I felt the same way as I had when he would drink and we would fight at home. That same feeling of impending doom, that feeling of, if I only quit making him mad it will stop, if I apologize enough, he will quit being mean to me; I can stop it. That feeling scared me because it felt comfortable, it felt right, how sick is that?!!? I am horrified that that felt right to me. He's done more damage to me than I originally thought possible.

Took the 180 train today: went out to eat with my kids, spent 2 hours in the bookstore, bought overpriced tea from Starbucks, and some fattening bread from the pizza place. Later I am having a poker tournament with my 3 beautiful, wonderful, amazing kids, and I will smile while I do so, because I may not be smiling later.

Thanks for your input, and I appreciate the offer of a PM. Please do likewise!


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((MzMagoo)))

I am sorry for what you are going through. You've heard from many people how they have similar circumstances. You need to understand you are not alone. You need to understand you didn't cause it, can't cure it, and can't control his alcoholism or his affairs. They are his to own and his to fix.

I heard things like for her to come home it would have been a risk to her sobriety and I was a factor in her alcoholism and the affair. Yet she continued to relapse for 8 months after she left us to be with a bottle of vodka and the guy she met in detox. It has shown me my xWW still has not taken responsibility for her actions. It is typical if not in active recovery they will push out their problems on anyone or anything else they can.

It sounds like your WS is twisting some of the things from AA to suit his needs and wants. He needs to put his sobriety first or everything else is lost. Until your WS is in active recovery he probably won't be able to accept responsibility for what he has done. My xWW was told work on your alcoholism, then your marriage. But, she ignored that and ended up cheating on me with another alcoholic she met in detox. She went to him since he was "accepting" of her alcoholism while I would no longer tolerate he putting our children at risk.

I wish you the best. You may have to make some tough choices in the future. You have to consider the best interest of your children and you. What you will do is the only thing you have control over. Take care of yourself and your children.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 7:42 AM, January 30th (Sunday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((betrayed))

Thank you for the words of wisdom, they are sorely needed.

You would think that after dealing with his drinking for so long, and after all of this pain and upset to all our lives it has caused, that I would be able to just let it go. Logically I know this is what I should be doing. I know that I did the right thing in asking him to leave, I know it. So why am I still sitting here wanting to fix this so badly? Makes me feel like 10 kinds of stupid.

He is still drinking, he is still lying, he is still telling me that he will do what makes himself happy, and screw everyone else. He doesn't want his family, he wants to carry on alone. I have to process that and move on. But damn, it is so very hard.

Our MC told us the same thing: sober first, then the rest. He has so much baggage from a bad childhood that he refuses to deal with. He has to face the cause of the drinking to stop the drinking, and right now he is not willing to do that.

Only time will tell if he ever will. I can't, won't sit here and tread the waters of his disease anymore. My kids and I deserve so much more. For now I am taking it one day, one hour, one minute at a time.

Thank you!


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MzMagoo,

My xWW has yet to face the cause of her drinking. As with your WS, she had a rough childhood; two alcoholic parents, infidelity, etc. But, none of us can fix that for them.

You are having difficulty with this for several reasons. One may be codependancy. It is easy to develop dealing with an alcoholic. Always "fixing" things for them until it becomes all you know how to do. Read "Codependant No More" if you think this may be a propblem for you. Secondly, you miss the person they were before alcohol took over their lives. You have good memories of a different time that your relationship was good and those are what you long for so fondly and hate to let go of. Hold onto those, but realize that the active alcoholic or even the dry one that is not in active recovery is not the same person you remember.

You are seeing the selfish self-centered aspect of the disease with your WS making the statement he will do what it takes to make himself happy. An alcoholic does have to put recovery ahead of everything, but not to the total disregard of others. At some point they have to accept responsibility and make amends to those they have hurt. It doesn't sound like your WS is near that point at all.

Yes, it is difficult. And, no you are not stupid. It takes a long time to heal from the effects of the alcoholic's disease on those who loved them. I struggle with this daily. My head knows all the correct things: it wasn't me and I can't change her. But, my heart is a very slow learner.

Again, take care of yourself and your children.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
hopefulmom
♀ Member
Member # 23556
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Betrayed,
As much as your post wasn't directed to me and as much as I know everything you said to be true....Thank you for your post.

I really needed to hear it again...and again...and again right now!

MzMagoo, Hang in there...you can do this! One step at a time.


me-44
WH-45
married 22 years
Dday 10/08
Divorced!

Posts: 257 | Registered: Apr 2009
MzMagoo
♀ Member
Member # 30978
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed, nicely stated, and all so very true, unfortunately.

My heart is also a slow learner. I think that all of us who have loved/do love and alcoholic would echo those sentiments precisely. They have to come to terms with who they are and what they have done, and make amends for how they have treated the ones they love before they can truly be on the path to recovery.

Thank you for your input and solid advice; it is needed, as my head, and my heart, are in a very bad place right now.


BS (me) 37/WS (him)37
M 13 years/together 18
DD 1~ 8-10/ DD 2~ 11-10
3 kids~ S 14, D 10, D 10
Filed for D: 11-10
R: Trying to trust it is real
If you walk around the pool long enough, you are bound to fall in.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: At the moment? Hell.
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