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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, February 13th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Illinoisgirl,

I have a hard time with that also. I've heard the same things from others and therapists. I guess it is not a threat if you can deal with the carnage that it is creating in your life until they see their fantasy isn't all that great.

I know it is wasted energy and I need to get over it, but I hate the OP's guts.

Take care


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, February 14th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wishing those of you dealing with an alcoholic WS a Happy Valentine's Day. Hope those struggling with this addiction get help. I still think of xwh and what could have been. It's not easy. Hugs to all


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, February 14th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IL-girl,

Wow! That refresher chapter on the ow I found that book after S and for me it wound up being too late. Supposedly one of his ow after S helped him get to AA and counseling... I will never fully understand this disease and it's link to infidelity. You don't think it was my leaving that caused him to attempt to get help? Convenient she was around at that time. After years of my trying to help him, Alanon, researching alcohohism for him, buying AA big books to leave around the house, you name it, I tried it and then he claims ow helped him in his quest for sobriety PS - Feels like such a slap in the face. Maybe one day he will wake up and realize all I did to help him. ow was just a diversion and then his support system -

[This message edited by Why?? at 8:38 AM, February 14th (Sunday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
tryingtwo
♀ Member
Member # 19717
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, February 14th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

betrayed
You are one hell of a father.

One of the hardest parts about loving an alcoholic is that we know and can see what they can be, but their disease and drunkeness prevents them from seeing that in themselves.

I am sure that you still love the sober woman, but that sober woman is not there. She is not there for you or your kids. For your WW sake, but more for your children's sake, I hope that she stays dry and gets sober, but you cannot risk your children's future on that roll of the dice.

I couldn't risk my daughter any more either and I couldn't live one beer away from hell all the time. I kicked my husband out. We were separated for a long time. He did become Sober Man and we are now reconciled, but he had to leave this house. His disease had to leave this house and family.

It is really hard. I cried a lot, but it had to be done.

My heart goes out to you and your children. Keep them safe and don't forget to be ever so kind to yourself. This is stressful and difficult and you deserve to be treated softly and kindly.

((((((betrayed))))


Innocent people generally want to get to the bottom of things. Guilty people usually want the discussion to be over as soon as possible.

Posts: 10311 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Oregon
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, February 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why??

That stinks! It's all so unfair. It does sound like maybe when you left him, he finally did reach his "rock bottom". It's unfortunate that OW was there to help pick up the pieces.

My dad was an alcoholic. I remember when he got out of rehab he only stayed with us for 6 weeks, then moved in with his OW. My Mom was SO pissed! After all the years of alcoholic bullshit he gets sober, then leaves.

She took her anger and remodeled our entire house singlehandedly. Hence, her favorite quote, "Rage is a great motivator." I never really understood it until I becan dealing with my own alcoholic, cheating husband.

God, I wish she was alive so I could talk to her.

Take heart. It sounds like you did everything you could. His actions are not a reflection of you, but of his own sickness.

As time passes, I am beginning to grasp that the infidelity was just a symptom of his illness. Someday I may even be able to forgive.


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, February 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi IL-girl,
I'm sorry you had to experience all this from your Dad and now your H. I actually went to an Alanon meeting tonight after not going in ages. I always get something out of the meeting even though I am no longer with my xwh.

Well, the sad thing about xwh and whatever ow/gf he may be with is that he would call me after S and D drunk and really bad off so I don't know if ow/gf really was the answer to his prayers. I truly hope he finds lasting recovery. I just wish it had been while we were still together but higher power obviously has other things in mind for us.

So true what you say about the infidelity being a symptom of the illness. What other illness causes such damage to the family???


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, February 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why??? and Illinoisgirl, ,

I went to Al-Anon tonight also. Talked about control. You can't control what he does, only what you do. That is so true. You are truly helpless to help them, it is something they must want themselves and do themselves.

My WS took exception to part of the divorce complaint: Cruelty-Alcoholism. WTF is it other than cruelty. It destoys whole families. It turns your loved one into someone you don't know. Makes them vunerable to others who "better understand and support them" than you since youare not an alcoholic. I can think of few thing more cruel than alcoholism.


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, February 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Illinois....I'll have to get out my copy of Marriage On the Rocks and re-read that section!
I do remember when I first read it after d-day...that I was disappointed in terms of how the author just tossed in there... fairly non chalantly...that..oh yeah, almost all alcoholics end up having affairs! What? I thought? how could you just devote a few paragraphs in your book to this? But then.. I got it... as a person sinks further and further into alcoholism and into more selfish, toxic, behavior...the next step is to get into an affair....
it was true for me.. I was turned off to my husband's drunken sexual advances...I had gotten to the point where I couldn't stand the smell of bourbon that seemed to permeate his skin...there was a lot of resentment on my part...and he knew it...some of it on a conscious level and some on a sub conscious level. he knew how disappointed I was in him... in how our marriage was going.. it was a marriage on the rocks... and so... he found ( or in his case the MOW found him)..he found a drinking buddy sex addict to escape life with...
I wonder if this passage in the book means that what we as spouses need to do at that point is to let them hit bottom by kicking them out... or us leaving.... and allow him to have his drunken affair partner... let him hit rock bottom.
I know that when I found out about the LTA and kicked him out...it was an instantaneous reaction on his part. He knew immediately that he wanted to come back. That he did not want this life. That he valued what we had...but, he had taken me, the kids, our marriage for granted. He had allowed his toxic thinking, depression, drinking... to over power his logical thinking... and it took hitting bottom.. realizing that he had lost it all ...to finally ....after over 30 yrs of drinking....finally stop.

I can't imagine that the author of the book meant that the spouse should patiently wait out the affair...wait for him to realize that the AP is a drunk also...and is a toxic person...because as long as the alcoholic has the security of the home and family to fall back on he or she will never hit bottom.
I think the author may mean that after you kick the alcoholic cheater out...then be patient.. because it will not take long for him to realize the insanity of his choices...and that realization may bring him to sobriety.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Very, very tired
♀ Member
Member # 26244
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My first time posting on this thread.

My WH has always been a heavy drinker. And, quite honestly, I used to drink right along with him. Then, we had kids. And... well... you can't wake up with a hang-over and expect to provide quality care.

It was during my pregnancies that I really realized how much my WH drank. I couldn't stand the smell of alcohol on his breath or skin. So, I started sleeping further over on my side of the bed. It's difficult to feel sexual feelings toward someone who reeks of alcohol. My smell sensitivity to alcohol continues now even though our DD is almost 11--probably because I don't drink anywhere near what I used to.

Fast forward to now, the drinking escalated during the height of the A's. Dinners out meant 3-5 cocktails minimum--usually doubles, followed by several beers when we got home. He can down a bottle of beer like most people drink a glass of water when they are thirsty.

Last weekend, while we were out with the kids, WH broke out in a sweat, excused himself to the bathroom, and came back smelling like vodka. I don't know if he drank in the bathroom or if it was left-over smells from the night before.

Just yesterday, we took the kids bowling. By the time we had bowled 3 frames, he had downed 6 beers and decided to stay and drink more with a friend while the kids and I left. He was supposed to pick up our DS in the afternoon. WH didn't show up until 7:30PM.

WH has been in his own apt since d-day#1.

Trying to have relationship conversations with him never goes well. He can easily polish off 4-6 beers during a one hour conversation.

I love my WH with all of my heart, even though he has shattered it into a thousand tiny shards. I will give him the world. But, I fear that my feelings are enabling him to continue his self-destruction.

He is a good man. He is a hard worker. But, he is slowly (more quickly, lately) killing himself.

What do I do? It is so hard watching the person I love most in the world kill himself.


BW (in the 40 yr old range)
2 kids
Happily married 20 years--or so I thought. Divorcing and finding a new life for myself. WooHoo!!!!!



Posts: 1917 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Somewhere North of Hell
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very, very.... he is out of the house now... does he want to get back together? can you use that as a way to get him into rehab?
No reconciliation without sobriety.
and Why??? I am so sorry... that stinks..it really does...
but, I have to tell you that I doubt that the relationship with the OW will last ...unless..he's one of the few men that stay with the OW because they are too ashamed and guilty to go back to their wife... they finally see themselves in the mirror... they are finally sober and realize all the hurt they have caused her and (because they still have that alcoholic personality of not being able to face things....) well...its just easier to make a clean break and not go back and face the wife because everytime he looks at her he feels bad about himself and what he has done..
I remember reading that on SI once...that was the rationale the husband gave for staying with the OW.. he didn't want to be alone... and he loved the wife not the OW but he couldn't face what he had done..it was easier to escape across the country and start a new life and pretend he was never that horrible person...
people can be so screwed up..can't they?

My prayers go out to all of the spouses of acloholics/addicts... we are a unique breed... usually too loving and kind...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
then_and_now
♀ Member
Member # 27622
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my xso was an active alcoholic during our relationship. since dday he's quit drinking, gone to AA and is now a sober alcoholic of 19 months....pity his 13th step/sponsor didnt last the course, they may have made the perfect couple. now he's back in my life ugh. the only good thing out of this whole mess is his continual sobriety.


save the world, its the ONLY planet with CHOCOLATE!!
----------------------------------
say what you mean
mean what you say
just dont say it mean
just sayin!!

Posts: 51 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Australia
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very, very tired

I'm sorry you are here. It is so very sad to watch a good person spiral down in alcoholism. You can offer support, but only they can truly do anything about their disease. What a horrible disease it is also. Affecting not only the one with the disease but their family and friends also. Have you been to Al-Anon? It is not for everyone, but helps many understand that they did not cause, cant' control, and can't cure their alcoholic.

You need to detach from your alcoholics problems. It will drag you down.

You are not alone and are in my thoughts.

Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 9:56 PM, February 21st (Sunday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Very, very tired
♀ Member
Member # 26244
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, February 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njga--WH doesn't know what he wants. But, yes, sobriety is one of my conditions of R, if he chooses to come back. So far, I've stated it mildly as, "you need to stop drinking." Now I realize it needs to be "you need to get help to stop drinking."

betrayed1012--I haven't tried Al-Anon yet, but have it in the back of my mind as a possibility.


BW (in the 40 yr old range)
2 kids
Happily married 20 years--or so I thought. Divorcing and finding a new life for myself. WooHoo!!!!!



Posts: 1917 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Somewhere North of Hell
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, February 27th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is a good man. He is a hard worker. But, he is slowly (more quickly, lately) killing himself.

What do I do? It is so hard watching the person I love most in the world kill himself.

Dealing with WH's alcoholism is the hardest thing I have ever been through. Combined with the A, I think we all deserve a medal just for getting through each day!

Very tired...if you can't get to an Al-Anon meeting (or if you aren't sure you want to) then maybe get some books about it.

Two books that have really helped me understand things are "How Al-Anon Works for Families & Friends of Alcoholics" (an Al-Anon book with no specific author) and "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Wow. As I read these books I was constantly thinking "That's me!" or "That's him!"

They really helped me to understand things and put things in perspective. A warning however, they are not very helpful in the A department. Most the books relating to alcoholism that I have read sort of skim over the A business, chalking it up as a symptom of alcoholism. That is still hard for me to accept.

Personally, I wish I had started going to Al-Anon sooner. I knew WH was an alcoholic years ago, but I waited until I found out about his A. I guess that was my "rock bottom".

Stay strong.


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, February 27th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do I do? It is so hard watching the person I love most in the world kill himself.

Yery, very tired,

Yes, it is. While my WS is not drinking on a daily basis, she is destroying her life. She relapses nearly every month with a week long binge with the OP. It is like standing on the shore watching a person drown and not being able to help.

You should read the "Codependant No More" book Illinoisgirl suggested. You need to realize that you did not cause the alcoholism, can't control it, and can't cure it. The same goes for the A. It is his choice and only he can make the changes in his life to end the madness of either. That is the hardest thing to accept that you can't help and if you are not careful you only enable or allow the behavior to continue trying to help.

My WS has hooked up with a guy fron rehab. She says I am a risk to her sobriety, but he is the one she is with when relapsed. Alcoholics twist reality to avoid dealing with the truth and having to face their problems.

You will be happier when you figure out you can't figure out an alcoholic. They drink because they are an alcoholic, not anything you have done, their job, etc. You have probably looked for that one thing to say to them to bring back the person you fell in love with. You can't. It is up to them to change and they must do it for themselves.

I hope the best for you. I hope you will try Al-Anon a couple of times to let you know you are not alone and start your healing process. Alcoholism affects the whole family not just the alcoholic.

Take care of yourself


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slightly off topic, but I would just like to say that I'm glad we can swear on these boards.

Some may think it offensive or immature, but I am an adult and if I want to call him a drunken asshole, I should be able to call him a drunken asshole.

Just a small vent. I love SI.


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 5:37 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You will be happier when you figure out you can't figure out an alcoholic.

Amen to that! I should have this tattooed on my forehead as a reminder. Thanks for the wise words.


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
Why??
♀ Member
Member # 18132
Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, March 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,

Hope you all are hanging in there with your W-Alc-S. I don't really know where to put this post so here it is. Today I received in the mail my support check from xwh and he now has automatic w/d from his account. Basically, now he never has to think about me the 1 time a month while writing the check and mailing it. I know this sounds silly in the scheme of things but I guess he's really moved on. Don't get me wrong, I'm in the N/B forum mostly and have worked on myself quite a bit...It's just something different with an alcoholic x that always leaves you wondering what could have been w/o the disease and wondering if he's now well and living the life I thought we'd have. Thanks you all for your support. Going to go walk what used to be "our" dog that he's also erased from his existence.

[This message edited by Why?? at 5:30 PM, March 4th (Thursday)]


"Don't let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game."

Posts: 1828 | Registered: Feb 2008
betrayed1012
♂ Member
Member # 26112
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, March 7th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you trust an adulterous alcoholic again? They are masters at lying and manipulation. All problems are caused by external issues; you, their job, etc.

My WS called last night. Said the OP was very abusive to her verbally. She had told him it was over and she never wanted to see him again. She told me she loved me and always had. The trouble is my WS is most likely in the midst of a relapse. The last several times she told me the same things. Yet, she would be back with the OP almost before she could get out of detox. This time may be a little different as the last time they relapsed together he ended up in the hospital for 5 days he was in such bad shape. Maybe this time he did indeed tell her she made him sick if she had relapsed again and he had resisted. Who knows.

But, how does that leave me. It has been 5 months of this. I had told her that we could not have or work on a marriage if she had contact with him again after the last time she went to detox. She broke NC almost immediately and when I confronted her about it she told me I didn't have to tell her at every conversation. So I quit and the next time she relapsed and ended up in his apartment for a week drunk, I filed for divorce.

So that is where we stand I have filed and now she says the OP is history and she loves me.

How can I trust her? She's lied about the relationship, she lied about seeing him, she has told me repeatedly she loves me, but stands by the OP as just a "friend" insisting they aren't intimate anymore. Then, why does he have a key to her apartment, why is it she supposedlyhas been trying to break it off for months if he is just a "friend".

I hate to feel as though only because the OP may have dumped her she is interested in possible R. I need to see more action on her part towards active recovery and NC. I'm not even sure at this point what I want. It may be too little, too late.

[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 4:55 PM, March 7th (Sunday)]


BS 52
WW 41
Dday 10/12/09
Filed Divorce Complaint 2/1/10
Together 18 year
M 14 years
Children: 11 & 7

Divorced 10/14/10


Posts: 1010 | Registered: Nov 2009
Illinoisgirl
♀ Member
Member # 25686
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, March 13th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can I trust her?

You can't. I've read that addicts need a full year of sobriety and working a program before they even start thinking clearly again.

Your filing for divorce has sent a clear message about where you stand. You can't change her. Keep working on what's best for you.


Married 12 years, together 18
WH - Recovering alcoholic
Me - Recovering wife
Reconciling?
D-Day 9-27-09
3 great kids - 12, 10 & 8

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt


Posts: 339 | Registered: Sep 2009
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