he needs to come to the conclusion and go for the help on his own.
Exactly right. You're very good at this already. (((NaiveAgain)))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt
For him, it seems like life has gone back to normal.
I promised myself that I would never get a divorce, but the prospect of living in a "sham" marriage for the rest of my life is almost more than I can take this morning.
Just a sad vent.
I'm sorry. My WS is an alcoholic, too and I have the same thing. She's seemingly dry although I'm not sure about sober. She has gotten back to her job after a medical leave to stop drinking. She has gone out and got an apartment. While I'm doing the single parent thing to allow her this freedom. I have to the children have to be safe and the danger of her relapsing too great at this point. She's out moving on while I'm here stuck in limbo.
I think it takes much longer than 40 days to think sober or without an alcoholic brain.
My IC (I asked for one who has a background in addictions, even though I don't have an addiction) has told me that they still ave the brain of an alcoholic. My WS is still trying to shift blame and not accept responsibility, just as she did with drinking. My WS has shown no remorse. The best I've gotten is "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings" once. My WS has done nothing to restore my trust or have NC with her "friend" as she claims they are now.
Mmy WS has shown no remorse because she doesn't think she has really done something wrong. It was my fault she had the A. My WS has sent me a clear message that as long as she can dodge responsibility and blame the affair on me, she won't have to deal with the pain; hers and mine.
I asked IC when the alcoholic brain thing may lift and she accept what she has done. Maybe within a year, maybe never. Not quite the answer I was looking for...
You need to decide what you can live with and for how long. You need to heal from both the alcoholism and the affair. There is always hope.
Take care of yourself first. You are not alone in what you are going through.
[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 9:44 AM, January 24th (Sunday)]
I'm a recovering alcoholic, sober a lot of years, and if your WH really does the 12 steps, you will likely see more remorse than you would from a "normal" person.
It takes some people years to go through the steps. 4 and 5 which are taking a searching and fearless moral inventory, and admitting to ourselves god and another person the exact nature of our wrongs, are IMO key to recovery for an alcoholic, and for a WS.
For me they go hand in hand and my 12 step program helps me with R also.
I agree with 1DLW in if an alcoholic is in recovery they are working the 12 steps and they will show great remorse. It would also seem difficult for a person to be with an OP if they did steps 8 and 9 where they made a list of those they wronged, and made amends to those persons. The relationship with the OP would be a constant reminder of the wrongs they had done.
From an active alcoholic or a dry drunk, a person that just isn't drinking and hasn't worked the steps, I'm not sure you see the remorse that 1DLW speaks of.
I don't think my WS is in true recovery, but just not drinking. Your situation may be different. There is always hope.
Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results!
WH has been sober since August 08 and has been working his steps. I found out about A because I was nosing through his 4th step worksheet last Sept. His A was at the top of this list as the worst thing he had ever done in his life. Small consolation.
He does admit now that he is currently in a "dry drunk". He's been pretty depressed since I found out about A, then 3 weeks after that he lost his job (layoffs).
As far as remorse is concerned, I would like...
- No blameshifting, re-writing history, demonizing me. Basically I want him to accept what he has done, without excuses. I've gotten a few "I'm sorrys" but there is always a "But...".
- Ask about me. Ask how am I doing, how I am holding up. Let me know that he thinks about it too and that I am not in this hell alone.
- Be a better husband. Show me why I should try. Why I should give him another chance.
- Basically ANYTHING. I want him to TRY. I want him to SHOW he cares. Right now, his life has gone back to normal.
I don't really talk to him unless it's about the house or kids. I guess it's sort of like the 180. Unfortunately, lack of communication, lack of sex, and lack of friendship was basically what our marriage was like before I found out. We had barely begun to heal from the alcoholism, when the A hit.
I'm actually starting to forgive him for the A. I've been going to Al-Anon and church a lot and beginning to understand that the alcoholic is truly an ill person, deserving of compassion.
However, I'm not sure I will ever be able to forgive his behavior since the A. I feel like he has completely abandoned me. Thrown me off a cliff and left me to die. That's not how you treat people you love.
He said he was going to prove that he wasn't an alcoholic and stopped. I watched him melt down and become a crazy person, but I couldn't stop him. He would not go to AA. Finally, he stopped his A and came home only to start drinking again.
He said he started drinking again to prove that he could control it. This is just how insane this whole thing is.
I'm probably not making good sense myself. But I have been reading that they don't show any real remorse for what that have done and how they have treated you. My question is this because of the alcohol? He says all the right words but I don't feel anything truth in what he says.
I too have been to Alanon. I gave it a year worked through step 5 and then just decided it wasn't for me. I needed feedback just like I do from all you right now, and in Alanon no one would talk to me. I did have a really tough sponsor but she wanted me to leave my H and I wasn't ready to then or now.
I'm need cross talk, it is lonley to be always have to detach from the person you love and want to be close to.
My STBXW, after being pulled over with a .17 BAC for her second DUI in about two and a half years last May, started attending Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) meetings at the suggestion of our attorney and the insistance of yours truly. I told her "I don't knw that you're an alcoholic or not but I love you too much to see you do nothing about this."
I never thought she was an alcoholic because, and this will sound odd, we're from Milwaukee, Wisconsin and EVERYONE drinks here! You can't tell the alcoholics from the "normals" (as AA folk refer to people like me).
Anyway, she started attending AA meetings and I was praying that this would really be a positive turning point for our marriage, that maybe her alcohol use was truly a contributing factor to our problems. We had, after all, survived her first affair in 2007, did a year of counseling, lived through her losing her job and maybe this was the final piece of the puzzle to turn things around for us.
She went to AA meetings faithfully every single day for 90 days (The "90-in-90" AA would like to see alcoholics do)and kept doing meetings almost daily...
mostly because that's where her new OP was. They carried-on their affair by going to AA meetings and then going out -or going home to his place- after the meetings and telling me she attended two meetings a night. A lie.
So much for two of the rules of AA:
1. TOTAL HONESTY
2. Don't start new relationships while you're doing the 12 steps.
So I loved -and gave everything I had emotionally, spiritually, physically- an alcoholic and my love, devotion and care was repaid with... another affair.
Don't get me wrong: I know AA isn't a dating service and my STBXW's former sponsor pleaded with me to NOT hate AA and I don't: I know too many AA "success stories" to think badly of it.
However, and this may be a bit of a twist, for some of you who have been married to/still are married to an alcoholic, I would hope they are seeking counsleing for more than just drinking. My STBXW has a potpourri of emotional and mental issues she'll never address, and while drinking is part of it, it's not all of it. Frankly the term sociopath has popped into mny head more than once.
So many hugs and "I feel you" to fellow spouses of alcoholics. I hope this site can help everyone heal.
He feels no remorse because he can drink his way out of shame or guilt about what has happened and will have little to no empathy for the pain he has caused because that is the nature of alcohlism.
If you are not ready to leave then or now, that is your choice, but you do need to know that he will likely never change the behavior if he has his life, his wife and has no consequences for his behaviors.
My marriage was nearlyl destroyed by my husband alcoholism. He would still be drinking and probably be dead if I hadn't left him and made him live with himself, face himself all on his own. We are reconciled but no booze was my line in the sand. That was me. Maybe you are not ready for that yet, but I do think that it is impossible to reconcil while there is a bottle of booze between you and your husband.
In some ways my husband's affair was with the bottle more than it was the OW. Long before he cheated on me with OW, he had left me for a beer and a bottle of vodka.
I never went to Alanon as that isn't my type of thing, but do read online and get information for yourself to strengthen yourself. You deserve more out of life and there is life beyond the alcohlic dramas.
Sending you my prayers.
Thank you for your comments. I know what you say is true.
I'm so emotionally dependent on my H I can't manage to pull away. I guess time will tell because I feel that his time is very short and the bottom is going to fall out sooner than later.
Thank you for your prayer they are always needed.
I too have had my WS use AA for meeting her OP, a guy she met in detox. Had to go to 2 meetings a day.
Just like tryingtwo says she will lie about everything to everyone, including herself. If she can shift the blame for the affair or drinking to me, then she doesn't have to deal with it.
I'm trying to hold out to see if see can come out of it, but that is my choice. Everyone has different points at which they say enough.
I asked my WS to move out for the children and I couldn't deal with the anger I felt of being betrayed after all I had done to give her the time for her recovery that she used to have an affair. It may not have been best for our marriage, but our children were no longer exposed to her alcoholism; her disappearing for days or being passed out around them.
I think an alcoholic needs ot deal with consequenses to truly change. My WS has been dry enough to keep from losing her job after taking medical leave to seek sobriety. She has never gotten a DUI. She blames problems with marriage on me, not shared. Nothing is her fault and the world is against her, except for the OP with which she has a "special bond". It is a self defense mechanism that people with addictions use to avoid responsibility.
As tryingtwo indicated to have a serious talk with an alcoholic in that first year is trying to have a rational conversation with an irrational person. Lies, half truths, and deception is how my WS is communicating.
As discouraging as it seems, I still feel there is hope. There is always hope, just no guarantees. And, some people never recover.
[This message edited by betrayed1012 at 11:41 AM, January 26th (Tuesday)]
You hear these stories all the time: someone goes into rehab and meets someone else in rehab and all of a sudden they're prefect for each other. Sure.
I know my STBXW is still up to her neck in denial, as is her OP now. I can't imagine they'll last too long but it still hurts to know that I thought AA would be the last piece of the puzzle we needed to really reconcile... I guess i was wrong.
He stopped drinking, thought about AA but never ended up attending a single meeting. I do go to Al Anon. I have never spoken in a meeting but always manage to feel better by the time I leave.
We have been living seperately for going on 9 months now. At first, he was dedicated to proving transparency and committed to staying sober and accountable to himself and to me.
He has been drunk 3 x since them (the last of which was in Nov)....up until last night.
He went out with buddies from work at about 7PM, told me he would call later and didn't until 3 am. I deliberately did not answer his call.
When he called at 7:30 AM, I did not ask him about his night or anything for that matter. I was pleasant, let him talk with the kids, etc.
Alcoholism is a tough tough disease.I've finally detached (only took me 4 years) and will continue to love him and care for our 2 young children from afar.
Without an organized program of some sort, I don't see my H's efforts as even partly successful. So, I will control the only person I can, me. No more fighting, no more crying, no more asking how many beers were consumed, who he was with or what he was doing.
If he wants to get better, he can. I thought he was ready, but he's not.
Then again I prefer a 'faithful' drunk to a sober cheater!
So do I, but strange enough when WH stopped drinking is when he went into MLC and had the A. I feel double cheated. Cheated on and cheated out.
When he came home (claims is was for me) he started drinking again. After all Alcohol is his "first Love"