I know that a lot of people feel that AA is mandatory...
And at first I did insist on it, and he did agree to go...
However, he went to the AA proram in our area many many years ago, in his first M, by court order...
After he attended for many months, he went to the judge and pointed out the flaws in this particular program, the only one, in our area.
The judge reviewed our AA program, and changed his judgement! And stopped requiring AA here...THAT is how bad it is...
We live in a small, isolated area, and this is the only program available. After discussing it, I understood why he chooses not to go there. I am sure some people here get support from it, but IMO, and in the opinion of my very wise IC/MC, my FWHs healing really lies in his heart, and growing our relationship.
He has so much pain hidden beneath his tough exterior.
I can see that, and maintain compassion, without enabling.
It truly is a slow, and sometimes agonizing process, waiting for him to come out of his shell...
But he peaks his head out every once in a while, and when he doesn't get smacked down, he feels more comfortable talking, and sharing.
Part of that is him understanding that I am real, and not some illisory wife that fits the profile...
I believe that his very first understanding that life can be very different than what he imagined is on d-day...
When I didn't just say FU and walk out on his ass.
For my H, the alcoholism was an escape from a painful reality...a reality that no matter what he did, he would never find happiness, because in his mind, he was a worthless POS.
I think that he is realizing that happiness is not something you find...
It is something that comes from within, and it is a choice.
The simple fact that I have stood by him through the very worst has changed him.
He told me the other day that he thought the biggest problem I have was meeting him, and that it all went downhill from there.
I told him I have learned a great deal being in a relationship with him.
And that what he needs is a safe place to heal.
I thought I had graduated from SI. WW/X knocked me off the unilateral reconciliation fence two years ago when OM moved in with her and our kids before my side of the bed even cooled during our "trial" separation.
I tried to enjoy the single life, but loneliness -- WW & I were together for 22 years + I had been a devoted father/primary cargiver for 8 years -- and zero self-esteem -- due to being replaced so quickly and effortlessly -- gave me a more poignant taste of madness than freedom.
I began to date. First, set-ups through family and friends. Next, I began to approach women on my own. I was always honest & up-front about the situation from which I had just emerged and my intentions not to pursue a serious relationship. Several women tried their best to change my mind, but I could muster nothing better than "thank you" in response to their "I'm falling in love with you"s.
Then I met Cindy, and my mind not only changed but lept back to life! The circumstances of our meeting and subsequent coutship rival even the cleverest of romantic comedies. She/Us made me glad I had a second life and energized me to make it everything the first was not. Though Cindy's road to Us contrasted with mine -- she had divorced 14 years previously, had two older children, and had met and attempted ill-fated relationships Mr. Wrong after Mr. Wrong -- we seemed to be on the same page for just about everything. I shocked the world by proposing within months, and she couldn't set our wedding date fast enough.
Our marriage was story-book quality, and I still smile at every memory from our honeymoon.
Fast-forward 1 year and 2 months later. A period filled with her losing 2 jobs and growing disatisfaction with the present one. A period filled with frequent, though not constant, flurries of her drinking to the point of turning into another diametrically opposite person, a woman whom she claims no knowledge of after but one with whom I dread the next encounter. A period of my finances plumiting as I carried the burden of household expenses (including mortgage) and ever-escalating dinners out (wine always being the steepest item on checks) while she attended to her pre-marriage debts.
Fast-forward to last night. After a recent bout of zero intimacy and frequent visits from that "other" Cindy, I initiate a state-of-our-marriage talk. She announces that
* marriage with me had
not turned out as she
* she is not sure she
knows how to have a
* she is finding life with
me smothering and
* she cannot get past her
feelings that I am not
over XW & that she knows
how to press my
emotional buttons & does
* she does not believe in
All this despite her admission that I make every effort to express my devotion to her and make her feel loved and wanted.
She responded indignantly when I asked her to be open & honest if and when another person compromised our marriage. I believe she is not "stepping out" -- much more so than when my XW actually did. Still, everything feels and sounds disturbingly familiar.
Whether it's infidelity or not, I get the same "I've already decided to check out" vibe, and it hurts like hell. Whatever happens, I hope to recover more quickly this time; I'm an SI veteran after all.
Still, I really do love Cindy and want to make a life with her. Am I already banging my head against a brick wall, though?
Isn't it strange how we keep running into the same relationship issues over and over?
My relationship with FWH is much like you described with her...
Why do I keep repeating this cycle?
I think that the change, regardless of who my partner is, needs to be a change in me...
no advice, just an, I hear you...
I read your original post to this thread, and your observations of and insights into your husband mirror my wife extactly.
I grew up with an alcoholic father, as did Cindy, and I use the pain of those years to keep from going down the same path. Cindy, on the other hand -- particularly the "other" Cindy -- expects me to simply accept (at times even embrace) that she is her father's daughter, and therefore must also succumb to the disease. We really don't talk about it when she is sober -- she deems it as me lecturing.
So often when she is drunk she talks about needing the esacpe.
I am what I am.
A true statement...
But unfortunately he applied it in a way that accepted his evil-side as the winner...like the one you describe...
We all have darkness in us, and it is okay to accept that...like by accepting you have addictive tendancies that can control your every move IF you allow it to sneak back in under the radar...
You can accept that there is darkness...and you can choose that darkness as a way to define and live by the light.
That it called free will -
Made of both darkness and light...what do you want your life to reflect??? It is free will, and when FWH was in the bottle, and the fucking around, he denied that he had it...free will.
When he came out of denial, that very first d-day...before I found out about the others...he said:
I knew I should quit drinking...I knew I should quit, and I tried, but it was half-assed...I should have tried harder, I knew it and I just didn't. And now I have ended up here, hurting you...in hell...I will never walk that path again...never. I saw I was going down, and I just let myself. I know that this has hurt you and it will keep hurting you and I am so sorry. But if you hadn't found out...if it hadn't come to this...I would have kept going...and it would have killed me.
All of this crap happening...this mess I have made...I am so so sorry and I will do what it takes to prove it to you...
But I can't be sorry that you found out...because you finding out saved my life.
He hasn't had a drink since then.
[This message edited by healingtree at 1:11 PM, June 20th (Friday)]
I understand the anger towards the drunk. I remember times when I would see that look in his eyes, you know the one...when the man you married has disappeared and suddenly you are confronted with this stranger who is becoming all too familiar.
I look at that drunk, that stranger, for what it is...a demon that haunted, and still probably haunts, my H...one that took over and came out and abused me and my family, not physically but verbally just by BEING there...
I hated that switch
I called him on it
He had at first the illusion that he was in control
And then when he realized he wasnt - it was too late that demon owned him because he cheated with some woman who was just simply there.
I don't believe that demons come from hell either...they come from pain and seperation from self, and they have the ability to take any one of us over that is weakened by lack of feeling a loving connection.
Humanity is what creates these demons, and humanity is what can overcome them.
I don't see this stranger as a part of my fwhs "authentic self" because it was something learned after he was born, through pain.
However, we are all born with the potential to bring badness and harm into the world.
I guess I can love the stranger as a true expression of my Hs state of loss/being lost...and be glad it came into our lives in the flesh because we can now acknowledge its existance and fight it together...
It can go two ways...
HE can face his demons and I can support his healing
Or he can choose not to face his demons and they will hit me head on, again.
We all have potential for healthy and unhealthy behavior...it is recognizing the free will we have in our choices that is the defining moment.
[This message edited by healingtree at 10:27 AM, June 25th (Wednesday)]
WH or STBX - I haven't decided yet - is an alcoholic.
This is new - learned less than a month ago about his A.
He insists each day I have a new issue.
If he sees, e-mails or speaks to his OW - it's over.
If he has another drink - it's over.
If he gets "too busy" to make it the the MC next Wednesday - it's over.
and there is one thing that he is right about - I have a problem with his drinking.
If I went to Hogwarts, my Patronus would be my Big Sister - GWADW
Yeah, I wish he would call sober and want to R (with him doing AA, counselor and us MC) but he says he's DONE. It's not fun going from wife to drunk dial buddy He still won't tell me who recommended the addiction counselor which seems odd? I guess I have to work on myself and move forward. He's showing no signs of wanting to stop the D and work on things.
How did your H stop drinking? I will have to review this thread to see if you talk about that. Have a good one
[This message edited by Why?? at 5:02 PM, June 28th (Saturday)]
My fWW started drinking about a year prior to the A. She had been known to over indulge at parties before, but nothing really out of the ordinary.
The heavy drinking started with a couple beers on the weekend.. then a six pack, then a twelve.
The details of the A are in my profile, but the OM was a co-worker 'drinking buddy'.
She now buys a twelve pack every night, 18/24 on Friday/Saturday, sometime Sunday.
She denies it, but it has had an effect on her work.
The crap hit the fan last night. I was at my computer, looking at a audio related BBS and she asked what I was doing. My response was, "Looking for Drug/alchohol rehab centers, locally."
Pissed her off big-time. She wouldn't speak to me and ended up sleeping on the sofa. I haven't spoke to her today.
It's been a year and a half since D-Day, and like others have said, the alcohol is as big, if not bigger, strain on the M than the A was.
funny how a littel bit of barley, hops and glass can ruin a marriage
ďMany of us crucify ourselves between two thieves - regret for the past and fear of the future.Ē -foulton oursler
I did it. I finally did it. I kicked my alcoholic boyfriend out of the house on Friday, June 27th. Let me just say that that was one (if not the most) hardest things Iíve ever done in my life. I have had to walk away from someone that I love to preserve my own sanity.
Iím still reeling from the loss and my heart and soul are crushed. Iím cynical and pretty much hating everything right now but I will get through this. I still cry at the drop of a hat and have this terrible empty feeling inside. Iím seeing a therapist and have upped my meds to help get me over this hump.
Heís texted me once during this ordeal asking if there was anyway to ďfixĒ this and I immediately texted him back with NO. Since then, there has been no contact whatsoever. Iíve let all of our mutual friends know that I do NOT want to know or hear anything about him and so far, everyone has complied with my request.
Iím so sick over this and still wish that we could have worked it out but I finally realized that he will NEVER change and I am wasting my life trying to fix someone that doesnít want to be fixed. I really thought he was ďthe oneĒ if only he would have quit drinking and doing drugs. How crazy is that? ďIf onlysĒ are exhausting to me and I canít do it anymore.
But Iím hurting and very distraught over our whole relationship. Thanks for letting me vent.
I'm still so very hurt and can't even think straight most of the time. I know that I will get over it but damned if it isn't hard for the time being. I hate him right now but I also love him too. I just want to get to that sweet sweet feeling of total indifference.
She seemed awful quiet/reserved all evening - then bought O'Doul's non alcohol instead of the typical (as in every day) 12 pack of Miller Lite.
I don't know if the three events (dr,/ quiet/no alcohol) are related but I presume so.
I wonder what he said?
I'm glad she wasn't drinking BUT it was an awkward evening. I went to bed early just to avoid the awkwardness of it all.