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User Topic: For Those That Love An Alcoholic
hanecita
♀ Member
Member # 10297
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, November 20th (Tuesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the Holidays are almost here...A great time for the depressed to start drinking....time for a bump.

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Apr 2006
NCguy2
♂ Member
Member # 8002
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, December 12th (Wednesday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From the Sober Recovery Website:

Children Of Alcoholics

Playing normal

These homes vary from slightly mad to extremely bizarre. The children have no real frame of reference. They do not have the freedom to ask questions. They believe shows like the "Brady Bunch" are based on a real family and knowing theirs could never be the same, spend a lot of time wishing it could be. Fantasy is a crucial survival tool of the child of the alcoholic, but also adds to the overwhelming confusion in the childís mind. "What if" plays a significant role in childhood, particularly the heartbreaking: "What if my parent(s) got sober?"

This is a family that has unreal expectations of achievement, the rest of the world, and especially of themselves. The alcoholic family also deals in absolutes - black and white, good and bad, right and wrong. Children from these families often sense that their family is different and also imagine everyone else is normal.

Normality becomes an obsession.

Becoming normal is paramount. When these children grow up and have children of their own, they not only do not understand normality and rarely appreciate the differences between appropriate and inappropriate behaviour. They tend to perpetuate destructive behavioural cycles by imposing the same expectations on their children. This applies to them even if they are not alcoholic. Do they know what to expect from a nine year old or a 13 year old? Probably not. They were never average nine or 13 year olds. They probably had expectations placed on them far beyond their age and often times beyond their capacities and expect their children to be as they were.

Difficulty following things through

Everyone procrastinates. Children of alcoholics do, too, but not in the usual sense. Problem solving skills are never a high priority in alcoholic families. Time is rarely available to sit down with the children and help with a school projects, and nor are they taught how to prioritize tasks or how to design time schedules. The child rarely - if ever - comes first. Alcoholic parents may have promised to help so but this help somehow never materialized. In fact, the child's life was full of broken promises. They were told that the new toy could be built or that the exciting trip could be taken later, as soon as the work was done or that beer was finished or Dad got home from "work". Predictably, the promises were never fulfilled and these children learned that promises were made to be broken and the people making them could not be trusted.

Trust is always the core issue

The child of an alcoholic has enormous difficulty deciding on a particular focus for a project, figuring out all the steps required to complete a project, or sifting the information necessary to finish a project. Studying for exams, completing courses, or arranging a work schedule can all be seemingly overwhelming tasks. It is not uncommon, though, for them to want credit for an idea even if it doesn't come to fruition, just as their parents did.

Compulsive lying

The name of the game is denial. The "elephant in the living room" syndrome is the perceptual lynchpin of all children of alcoholics. Mom calls the office to say that Dad is seriously ill; meanwhile, heís just hungover. Excuses were given to friends, teachers, children, and anyone else involved in the familyís life as to why something could or could not happen, why they could or could not go somewhere, or why they had black eyes or broken ribs or were in the hospital and at some point, the child begins to believe it. Or they begin to understand that there is a reason for lying - that is to say, that the truth is unpalatable. The logical conclusion is, of course, that the truth is always unpalatable.

As a consequence, the child begins to disregard his own reality and that which he sees. He learns he can avert unpleasantness, deny painful realities, and generally make life easier if he lies. He learns that the broken promises are really just lies, that the excuses are really just lies, that his happy family life is no more than a myth, and that there are some real benefits to be derived from lying. It is easier to lie and avoid the embarrassment of taking your friends home to a drunken father on the living room floor. It is easier to lie and feign illness than face the failure of an exam because your parents were fighting all night and you couldnít study or sleep. When a child learns that the only time to get the non-alcoholicís attention is when a crisis is happening, that child learns to create catastrophic crises to get the attention he needs and for which he longs. He learns to lie to meet his needs.

In adulthood, these things rarely change. The best story-teller is considered the life of the party even if everyone knows the stories arenít true. Besides, even when a child tells the truth, there is no guarantee that anyone will believe him. In an alcoholic home this is always the case. Lying begins to come naturally, even though it is difficult to remember who you told what to. As nothing can be relied upon and nothing is real, the child's sense of identity founders.

A 26-year-old guidance counsellor whose mother was alcoholic remarks: "I find myself lying and about halfway through the lie, wanting to say, 'Stop! Thatís a lie, thatís not it! Start over again!' but am too embarrassed to do it."

Deceit becomes a habit. Even if you have learned to tell the truth about situational things, your feelings may be causing you trouble. It is not unusual for children of alcoholics to have difficulty recognizing their own feelings, much less to be honest about them to others. So in effect, the child is not really telling a lie - he is just not telling the truth.

Judging the self without mercy

Children from alcoholic homes are never good enough, smart enough, tough enough, fast enough, or "something" enough. They lived with constant criticism and eventually internalized it. They believe they have to be perfect or at least better than everyone else just to be equal. If they do something well, they tell themselves that it was nothing, that it was easy. Shame is a constant in their lives and focus on this shame often leads to a pathogenic narcissicism and emotional paralysis.

If something goes wrong, children of alcoholics wonít blame other people; they will take the blame even it is not their fault, convinced that they are cursed. Even if they are able to admit it is someone elseís fault, they wonít be nearly as hard on the other person as they are on themselves. Martyrdom always involves a warped sense of humility.

Difficulty having fun

Life is a very serious business for the child of an alcoholic. Much of his time is spent just surviving. The burden of responsibility this child carries intrudes on any fun she may have. Children of alcoholics sense they are different and are therefore isolated from other children. They are not able to take friends home for fear of what they may find there and the embarrassment everyone would feel.

It is difficult to be involved in the extra curriculum at school when you have to rush home and make supper because your mother is drunk. The conflict competing demands cause are not worth the pleasure derived from the activities. How can a child enjoy himself without suffering severe guilt when he sees his parent suffering so, or having such a bad time of it, particularly if the parent is vocal about it?

Patterns developed in childhood are difficult to overcome. An overdeveloped sense of responsibility, a burdensome guilt complex, and an ocean of insecurity keep children of alcoholics from experiencing much fun. Even if they choose to be "party animals", more often than not it is because of the family role they choose or their own alcoholism, not the actual desire or capacity to have fun. Many children appear to be having fun when actually they have learned how to put up a good front. When abuse of drugs, alcohol or compulsive promiscuity is involved, it means that their adult lives are no more than an effort to forget their childhoods. To them, life is something to be denied or forgotten, not lived. Nothing is true, little is clear. Sobriety means pain.

taking the self very seriously

Once again, life is a very serious, angry business for the child of an alcoholic and at times, even life-threatening. The spontaneous child is not allowed to survive. A parent who is constantly hungover during the life of her children is not going to allow a happy, bouncing, exuberant child to come bounding onto the bed at seven in the morning to say: "Gee Mom, look at the sun shining! Isnít it great?"

Very quickly, the children learn to weigh what they do and say according to the alcoholicís mood and physical state of being. The number of perfectionists developed in these homes is astounding. They are prime candidates for burnout in their late 20ís and early 30ís. In spite of this, a very high percentage enter the human services field - some statistics quote the figure as being high as 65%. It is said these estimates are low. Successful corporate executives are often the eldest child of an alcoholic parent and instead of developing alcoholism, they develop workaholism.

trouble with intimate relationships

Although children of alcoholics desperately want intimate relationships, they have difficulties for a number of reasons. They have no frame of reference. The marriage of their parents was often violent or rocky and at best, moderately dysfunctional. Modelling was not a conscious effort on the parents' part. Even if they did think about the poor example they were setting for their children, the nature of alcoholism did not allow for adjustments. The parental "come here, come here - go away, go away, go away" syndrome develops a strong approach-avoidance conflict within the children of alcoholics.

Hand in hand goes the fear of abandonment. Minor issues quickly become major as the fear of abandonment takes precedence in their lives. Talking openly about problems or feelings is not one of their strong points. Again, this was not modelled. Paradoxically, silence can be even more fearful than the conflict that exists. It is indeed a paradox that the child is unable to talk about feelings and yet reads the silence.

Alcoholic homes are made possible only by crosstalk, trivia, denial and abuse; there is no respect or respectful confrontation. One ACoA member puts it this way: "I hate the silence to this day; thatís why I talk so much; I canít stand silence. Perfect silence is awful, especially when thereís a lot of tension because thereís no way to release it. My mother still says she doesnít know how my head is still in one piece, because she says I would go in my room and pound my head against the wall. No one ever came in."

How does a child talk about the rejection and the accompanying pain when he discovers the bottle is more important to his parents than he is? How does a child talk about the anger he feels when the non-drinking parent forgets to come to the play in which the child has a leading role because the drinking parent stormed out the door to go get drunk? Or worse, how does one talk about whatís going on when the non-drinking parent will even pretend not to see or hear the sexual abuse the drinking parent is inflicting upon the child in the next room?

how does one trust after such neglect?

Sex is used as a weapon - a system of reward and punishment. When this is shouted out in the middle of the night by an adolescentís parents, it has a profound effect on the attitude developed around sexual relations. Incest is rampant in alcoholic homes. This often results in major trust issues for the child. The effects of incest on the survivors is well documented.

As a result of this and the codependent nature of the parentsí relationship, a crippling sense of abandonment is developed in the child. During an argument, it is not unusual for an child of an alcoholic to need constant reassurance that their partner is not going to leave them. The child has trouble understanding that he can be angry with one he loves as anger, to him, is inextricably linked with physical or emotional violence - he was never taught that anger does not have to be abusive or terrifying, that it can be a constructive force; he was never taught to be constructive.

overreacting

Children are regularly accused of being controlling, rigid and lacking in spontaneity. How this comes about is not difficult to understand when applying it to the baffling, cunning, insidiousness of alcoholism. Situations over which the children had no control happened on a regular basis.

In order to survive, they needed to find ways to cope so that they felt like they had some control over their lives. This is how the roles are taken on and developed to such elaborate degrees, and the association of security and control is carried through into adulthood. Control becomes the major issue for many children of alcoholics. They are very resistant to change, especially quick change. To them, this signifies loss of control.

If they were victims of incest, this always becomes the major issue of their lives. Something as trivial as a date deciding to change the place to have supper without discussing it with an child can lead to a cessation of the relationship and the very least, the cancellation of the date. The child will probably not even be aware of why he is doing it, only that it is something he must do.

approval-seeking

As a result of the "conditional love" experienced by children of alcoholics, they did not develop an internal focus of control and compliments, no matter how well deserved or sincere, are not well received. It is very difficult for them to accept affirmations from others. Often when they were children, a compliment was a warm-up for some sort of request or let down from a parent. They trust "warm fuzzies" from others as much as they trust "promises".

Their low self-esteem also makes it difficult for positive strokes to be made or heard since anyone who cares so much cannot be worth much more. Anorexia and bulimia are also common amongst children of alcoholics. Noone can force another person to eat or keep food down. Again, it is a control issue tied up with self image based on societal approval. Since skinny is the optimum look, skinny is that for which the child aims - again, conformity is paramount.

feeling different

Part of this comes from the child's warped sense of reality - their family is, after all, abnormal. They believe that in a group, everyone else is comfortable whereas they feel awkward. Because they were so isolated as children and rarely allowed the luxury of being childlike, they did not get many opportunities to develop constructive social skills.

Children from alcoholic homes pick unrealistic role models who represent an absolute - all good, all bad, and perfect in this absolutism. They have no idea that acceptance doesn't have to be earned and so try various means to be accepted. These means usually bring them ridicule or at least strange looks. They give away prized possessions, try bribes, are the first to attempt daring stunts or play the clown so well that other children see them as insensitive or absurd.

Working on the self-fulfilling prophecy that they are different, children from alcoholic homes find that other children react to this and treat them differently. Besides, how does a child who watched his mother verbally or sexually abused and beaten by his father the night before relate to another child wondering who the prom queen is going to be? Chances are the child from the alcoholic home isnít going to the prom and will probably never get to go to a prom.

responsibility issues

For children, there is no middle ground. They either take it all on or totally abdicate. For the child of an alcoholic it is easier to go it alone than share responsibility as others cannot be trusted. After all, what is co-operation? When problem-solving is such a hit and miss proposition, how can anything of value be achieved? And what if the child's "inadequacies" are exposed?

Children of alcoholics have no sense of being a part of project or of their own limitations, particularly if they are the eldest child of an alcoholic. Without learning to say no, these children will burn out; in the meantime, their "incompetence" must not be discovered. Others often tire just watching these children operate - their lives are crammed with the means of avoiding painful core emotional issues.

loyalty

Does a parent who severely beats a child, continually berates the child in front of others, and otherwise ignores the child still deserve loyalty? One would think not, and yet time and time again, children of alcoholics remain loyal to their parents long after childhood. This loyalty is a mask for fear and insecurity. A strange bonding has occurred.

As adults, they remain in destructive relationships because they have an obligation to stay if the other person says they still care. It also allows the child to sustain his negative self-concept especially if he treats or is treated poorly within the relationship. He can spend time fantasizing about how it will be better. Coping this way is somehow more safe than dealing with reality, since at least it is familiar and predictable. It is a known quantity, established and within their sphere of control.

change comes with difficulty

To accept the destructiveness of a relationship is to suggest it needs changing and possibly should be severed. How can the child accept this when he spends so much time fearing abandonment? After a series of emotionally arid and/or alcohol and drug-based relationships, the child finds that the pattern becomes evident to other people. Despite this, it is not evident to the child. Part of this denial comes from not addressing the past and confronting it. To the child, that would be unacceptably disloyal.

THE CHILD OF AN ALCOHOLIC TENDS TO LOCK HIMSELF INTO A COURSE OF ACTION WITHOUT GIVING SERIOUS CONSIDERATION TO ALTERNATIVE BEHAVIORS OR POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES. THIS IMPULSIVENESS LEADS TO CONFUSION, SELF LOATHING, AND A LOSS OF CONTROL OF HIS ENVIRONMENT.

AS A RESULT, HE SPENDS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TIME CLEANING UP THE MESS.

This is the characteristic that children of alcoholics find the most unsettling, frightening, and most want to change. Impulsiveness is rampant. Instant gratification - rather than deferred gratification - is a must. The attitude of "this is my last chance" is ingrained in the child.

Broken promises have lent themselves to an attitude that if anything is to be achieved or undertaken, it must be immediate or it wonít happen, consequences be damned. This is often true of the adult's child sexual life and sometimes interpreted as "having fun". Chances are it is the simple reaction of an event that was in some way emotionally threatening to the child. To an observer, the child often seems to be at odds with his own happiness.

Some of the following characteristics may instil despair in children, but there is help.

recovery does happen, one day at a time

Thousands of children of alcoholics are turning these characteristics and others into positive attributes. The desire to make things better and the willingness to exert the energy required is all that is necessary to make a good start on the process of getting well.

further characteristics

As stated by Adult Children of Alcoholics themselves

1. We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures;

2. We became approval seekers and lost our own identity in the process;

3. We are frightened by angry people and personal criticism;

4. We either became alcoholics, married them, or found another compulsive personality, such as a workaholic, to fulfill our need for and expectation of abandonment;

5. We live life from the viewpoint of helping and seeking victims, and we are attracted by that weakness in our relationships;

6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility, and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than with ourselves;

7. We suffer guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves; instead, we give in to others;

8. We confuse love with pity and tend to "love" people we can pity and rescue;

9. We have suppressed our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or to honestly express our feelings. Rationalization seems far easier;

10. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem. We sometimes compensate for this sense of inferiority by trying to appear superior;

11. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment. We will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience the pain of abandonment;

12. We became para-alcoholic, taking on the characteristics of alcoholism even though we did not pick up the drink;

13. We became compulsive and obsessive in our behavior;

14. We are unknowingly trying to recreate the chaotic lifestyle with which we are familiar;

15. We are afraid of intimacy and have difficulty forming close intimate relationships;

16. We became aware of feelings which seem to separate us from others, and we find ourselves depressed. Depression is endemic in dysfunctional families

Copyright 2002 Janet Geringer Woititz.


His name is Robert Paulsen

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: NC
Jim_and_I
♀ New Member
Member # 15390
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is an emotional immaturity that is inherent in alcoholics ... that is making our reconciliation so difficult. He wants to know how I feel...but when I say it...truthfully (I was afraid to be honest for far too long..look where THAT got me )then he completely negates it ...!! I say "but that is how I felt about it..."
AND

My husband has been sober for 20 years but it's all about him. I believe my husband is what they call a dry drunk. He's just changed his addiction. It's now AA ALL of the time. He goes to at least 3 meetings a week ...! His higher power is now AA. But he doesn't see it. ...
I told him if he worked his marriage like he does his sobriety, we would still be together

14thebooks and terrified: I can completely relate to both! I've been afraid to truly talk to my WH for years because of his strong personality...he loves to negate my opinions and gets resentful of anything I say that caused him hurt (like, stop sleeping with that slimy woman!)

My WHs addiction changed to sex and AA. He's now addicted to both. But he's still got the typical Alcoholic personality and whatever mood he's in affects the entire household. His answer...I am what I am and my strong personality got us this nice house (he's in sales) and you knew all of this when you married me! etc. etc. Oh yea? I knew you were going to frequent hookers 18 years ago? Don't think so!!!

I'm also wondering why there haven't been more posts in this forum section lately! Have all spouses of alcoholics miraculously R'd and become insanely happy???

My WS became so involved in AA that its the place he chose his lovely OW! She's a major drunk and is now in rehab for the 3rd time. Now I'm supposed to trust him to spend 10-15 hrs a week at an place where there are lots of women needing his help??? But I'm a "bad person" if I don't let him work on his disease. oh well...let's get some new posts going people!!!

Merry Christmas to all or whatever your holiday of choice is....Hugs all around and good luck during what can be a difficult time of year for those we love...


that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger....at least that's the theory!!!

D-Day 1: Nov 2004
D-Day 2: Feb 10, 2007
D-Day3: Oct. 29, 2007
how stupid AM i?
Kids: 2 girls 9 and 12
Married 18 yrs.


Posts: 20 | Registered: Jul 2007
14thebooks
♀ Member
Member # 12661
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, December 22nd (Saturday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JimandI
Hi. A dubious welcome.

My H is addicted to AA now. He is on the phone constantly, at meetings, typing things up for his group...He goes every day to meetings. Every day.
I am glad he is sober, of course.

But they substitute one addiction for the other. Drinking, cigarettes, coffee, chocolate, sex. In order for there to be moderation in anything, there has to be an extreme somewhere else.

AA is his religion now. His AA friends are who he wants to socialize with (along with me). They are nice people, but I have nothing in common with most of them.

I always feel like he is choosing SOMETHING over "US". It's been this way forever.
I don't post here alot because I have been busy trying to work on this multi-faceted problem..my stupid A, my continued feelings for OM, trying to reconcile with an Alcoholic who has now considers himself holier than thou because he didn't cheat. He has done almost everything else over 30 years... He had a major EA a few years back...but it doesn't matter. He negates all.

So frustrating.

He is so intense. He came to one IC session with me (to have his say ). Since then, my IC has me lock the door when I come to see him...he is fearful that my H will just show up. He said he can't believe his intensity! The IC said that after that one session he was exhausted!
Oh and the sex thing...
yup. Another obsession now. Pre-A we hardly had it. We hadn't really kissed since we were first married. But now...because of the OM...it's an obsession. I try and tell him it is hard to switch gears like this..

PM me anytime... I understand.

[This message edited by 14thebooks at 7:40 AM, December 22nd (Saturday)]


48 y/o WW
50 y/o BS
Married 27 ys

Posts: 553 | Registered: Nov 2006
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nine beeers later for some reason I was called a bitch along with the two dogs.The anger comes out more intensified.
Just sitting here I could have done something wrong and called some awful name.I just ignore him and go to bed.He passed out in the chair.During the day he was in a good mood so I thought.We had gone Christmas shopping and out to lunch.


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
wantmore
♀ Member
Member # 5939
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, December 24th (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chelle1966316, my EX was a smooth talker and never revealed anything until he'd had a few. Then, look out for loose lips. I'm sure he's happy now but he's not my problem anymore.


Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Of course it helps to know you *have* enemies.

Posts: 2887 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Florida
NCguy2
♂ Member
Member # 8002
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, December 27th (Thursday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re-Thinking Addiction
Popular Science Blog - Re-Thinking Addiction

http://popsci.typepad.com/popsci/2007/12/re-thinking-add.html


Fmri Addicts form thoughts in a fundamentally different way than those without addictions, according to a report published in today's Journal of Neuroscience. The study, led by scientists at the University of North Carolina and the University of California, compared the brain activity of recovering alcoholics and non-addicts. Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), they recorded neural activity of both groups while they made a hypothetical financial decision: Less money now or more later? The impulsive "now" option, one demarcated by increased activity in certain brain sites, was chosen by the recovering addicts three times more often than by others. The ones who decided to hold off, however, had more activity in their orbital frontal corticesóthe "brakes" area of the brain, which allows us to consider future consequences and weigh them against short-term gain.

The study, the first to identify such differentiation in brain activity, could be the key to discovering viable treatments for addiction.óAbby Seiff

[This message edited by NCguy2 at 9:32 AM, December 27th (Thursday)]


His name is Robert Paulsen

Posts: 1725 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: NC
newbaby
♀ Member
Member # 10918
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, January 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I watched my H destroy our life because of addiction.

First his career with drinking.

Then, after I had pulled it all back together, he destroyed his career again, and took our family with it, for sex and porn.

Addiction is a cruel, heartless mistress that demands total submission.

I got help through IC, Al-Anon and finally, I said enough is enough.

It's really really hard to stay M to an addict...but know your boundaries, and NEVER let them cross them without consequence.

((((everyone))))


Everyday, a little bit more of me returns.

Posts: 2768 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: My little corner of the world
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, January 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How about living with an addictbeing the child of two recovering alcoholics and the spouse like to be emotionally unavailable.
Now that I have more time to think about life in generalit has finally all come to a head as to what I arried.
The kids are just about grown and I see more of the adult outside world does that make sense?
So now I see him and me


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
hanecita
♀ Member
Member # 10297
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, January 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jim & I:.....I don't check this forum too often.....I'm of the opinion that LOTS of people on this site are dealing with people that have some kind of addictive personality...and that the A is just a manifestation of the addiction.

My WH has done them all: smoking, alcohol, a bimbo, cards, etc., etc., etc. Yeah, I know it is easy to make a sweeping assumption like that, but when you read between the lines in a lot of the posts, there are hints of the WS having 'little' problems with booze, or gambling, or
marijuana....

Sometimes when you have been living with the problem as the sober or unadicted person, it is difficult to ID a WS as a Drunk (or other addict) I think alot of this has to do with the stereotype that people have of Drunks being passed out homeless people begging @ freeway Overpasses, or glued to barstool....

Most people don't know how well Alcoholics hide their problems, 80% of all Alcoholics are employed...And most Alcoholics deny that they have a 'problem'....

Most MC's won't work with a couple if one of the parties is an alcoholic. When My WH and I went to MC, the C. asked my H if he was still drinking, and my H said No....(well, in his mind, he hadn't had a drink in 2 weeks, so he wasn't drinking...)

He is at this point a dry drunk. That beats an active drinker, but of course, I wonder when the shoe will drop.

I don't think that all the folks who are married to alcoholic WS have R and are insanely happy, I think lots of folks here are married to Alcoholics and they don't know that substance abuse is a huge part of the dysfunction in their marriage.

I have PM'ed several people that have 'danced' around the issue of their WS having problems w/drugs or drink and they are always flabbergasted at my 'insight'....

Often depressed WS is just self medicating w/ booze, drugs or sex....it so much easier than going into counselling or something constructive like exercise.

Go figure.


Posts: 1249 | Registered: Apr 2006
notapuppet
♀ Member
Member # 16480
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, January 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H turns into a complete ass when he's wasted. This past Friday he was having "a drink" with his parents and his sister & brother-in-law. This lasted until 3:30am when he came home and started telling me how bad supper was that I had left for him, what a bad wife I am, bad mother, etc. Then it became physical. I kept pushing him away from me. I finally called the cops. First time I've ever done that. He had to spend the night at SILs. He came home at 6:00 the next night. We haven't spoken at all. Now what?? Seems like if I did that I would be apologizing up & down, but not him. The cops told me he was acting like he was the victim (I scratched him) and that's typical. I just don't know where to go from here. He stayed home Sat & Sunday nights and didn't drink. WOW 2 nights alcohol free. But, last night he was out until 2:30am again. Obviously he's not willing to change. I just don't know what I should be doing. Continue the silent treatment infefinetly??


Me: 39
Him: 37
Together: 9 years
Married: 4.5 years
2.5 year old son

Posts: 256 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Midwest
lovtolaff
♀ New Member
Member # 8975
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Notapuppet - I don't know if I'm allowed to post a website here or not but I'll give it a try. It may help you, it's certainly helped me. www.soberrecovery.com give it a try - there are LOTS of people just like you and me there that are willing to listen and give advice. Best of luck.


The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day when I met him. Then, everything went crazy.

Posts: 40 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: Virginia
Brenshay
♀ Member
Member # 8058
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh God...I belong here too as well as in the NPD thread and the Divorce section. WTF is wrong with me?

Posts: 631 | Registered: Aug 2005 | From: Florida
newbaby
♀ Member
Member # 10918
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is nothing wrong with YOU Brenshay...your H has a problem with alchohol...which has made your life unmanageable.

Try to find an Al-Anon meeting in your area...face time with people in your situation can help!


Everyday, a little bit more of me returns.

Posts: 2768 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: My little corner of the world
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Puppet,
How did you manage to not get arrested.Her both of you would have gone of to jail.
Cripe I smacked my H once during a fight,(caught with skank in his truck)and got hauled off for domestic violence.First time I EVER hit him.
Not that it makes it better but jeez.


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you now the exact reason for the alcohol abuse?Is there an excuse used,like stress or something?Just curious.
H had drank most of our lives together since we were teens.
It continued until about 7 years ago and then he stopped for a few years.It started again when he found out about my A.Then started going to the skank bar dowtown.Thats pretty much where he lived for months.He didnt come home until closing.Was there right after work,days off all day....
Of course thats where he met the skanks he decided to be friends with and eventually had sex with one.
The bar thing slowly stopped and now he drinks still here at home.On the way home from work he has to have one or at least two while driving.
Gets home and it continues.One six pack ,sometimes brings home a twelve pack and will pretty much drink the whole thing.
Lately its been more than a six pack.
It really disgust me.I cant stand it and I dont want to be near him.


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
notapuppet
♀ Member
Member # 16480
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought the rule in our state was that someone had to go to jail when the call was made. Well, that must be a flexible rule. The cops asked me what I wanted to happen and I said I wanted him to settle down and go to sleep. They asked if he had someplace he could spend the night and I said his parents & sister both live nearby. So, the options they gave him were jail or sleep elsewhere. They told me that it was obvious he was in the wrong - he was drunk, I was sober. He's big, I'm small. I win. WOW, I win. Not sure what the prize is!

To give an exact reason for drinking, well I'm not sure. There's several, I guess. It's all he knows for one thing - his parents drink heavily. He lived at home until he was 30 and then moved in with me. His mother's drinking annoys him - so if she's drunk he'll drink hard to pass her up. Of course he claims he drinks because he can't deal with me as well.

Sounds like your marriage has had it's share of hard times, Chelle. How long have you been married?


Me: 39
Him: 37
Together: 9 years
Married: 4.5 years
2.5 year old son

Posts: 256 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Midwest
chelle1966316
♀ Member
Member # 4969
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Been married since 1987,been together since 1981.I was just about 16 and he was 17.
Somedays too long.


I am WS from Feb 2004-April 2004 first then a BS.
Together since 1981,married 1987 to present.Divorced,March 2012,for financial reasons, but still together until end of October 2012.Now hes having a midlife crisis and living away from home.


Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2004 | From: Maine
notapuppet
♀ Member
Member # 16480
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, January 14th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chelle, I guess if I had been paying attention I'd have seen your signature. Wow 4 kids almost grown. How were things when they were little? I just keep thinking things will get better as our son gets older. Silly idea, huh?

It's just harder to deal with all his crap when "I" have the responsibility of a small child. I can't just get up and go make a life for myself like everyone says to do. I know I need to detach and live my life for me. How do I do that with a child and I work full time? I'm content staying home on weekends with my son. Guess that makes it easier for him - he knows when he comes home drunk every night that we'll be there because where else would we be?! So frustrating...


Me: 39
Him: 37
Together: 9 years
Married: 4.5 years
2.5 year old son

Posts: 256 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Midwest
wantmore
♀ Member
Member # 5939
Question  Posted: 11:36 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was over at the soberrecovery site and they asked the question: How many actutally stayed with their alcoholic spouse?

It seems that in that group most had given up and left them.

Since my EX was a functioning alkie he didn't think he had much of a problem. After all, he never got traffic tickets, he was always able to get up the next morning, and it hadn't started to affect his sexual ability.

One of our former "couple" friends asked me why my daughter didn't want to live with him and my short answer is "He's not good company, and besides he's a drunk". Now since these people are struggling to stay friends with both of us I wonder if I should have not put it so bluntly.

You know I didn't leave him because he's a drunk, I left him because he's a cheat. Oh well, just rambling I guess.

For those of you who stayed, has he/she recognized that they have a problem and sought help? For those who left, was it the whole picture including the drinking, or was it strictly the infidelity?


Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Of course it helps to know you *have* enemies.

Posts: 2887 | Registered: Nov 2004 | From: Florida
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