it seems like this 180 is supposed to be transparent to the other person (hence not being angry or cold, etc) so how do i decline to do something i would normally do without either telling him why or seeming like i'm just being difficult? if he says will you make me a sandwich, do i make up an excuse as to why i can't or do i just say i can't do that for you anymore or what?
also, it says don't schedule dates together. does that mean don't spend time together? or just don't plan it? or make him plan it?
For me, I stop making him a priority. I went out to bingo, the movies, exercise,anything to try not to focus on him or his needs.
I still did things for him, but I made it business like. I was non-committal, he started to wonder where I was going and who I was with, I didn't lie, but I made him wonder.
I didn't keep bring up the A or the OC, when he wanted to talk about we did,but I let him know that he needs to make decisions that will deal with this.
At first it was easier because I put him out and he lived with OW for 3 weeks. During that time I did not call him, I did not drive pass her house, I contacted him thru the mail with legal notices. After 3 weeks of straving and not having a bath, he sure wanted to come home.
Only you can decide what works for you, you know what goes on in your house and hopefully what may be effective with him.
I have been where you are. Your feelings are normal.
It sounds like you have hit the anger stage.
Are you seeing an MC? That helped us?
I still have days when I am angry and hateful.
When there is an OC involved it is hard to get past an A.
An OC is a constant reminder.
Sending you hugs and prayers.
Yes, I am still stuck too. Stuck in the anger towards a system that throws the COM and the WIFE under the bus financially while coddling and protecting the OW and the OC. Stuck in the anger towards a person who calls herself a mother but uses the OC to obtain money, through what I call legal extortion. (And believe me, I feel the OC is innocent -- but the OW is NOT - particularly if they don't even have a job, or as in my case, QUIT when they are allowed to get SOOOOOO much money via CS - you wanted to be a SAHM then go get M and have a child otherwise suck it up, OW, and GET A JOB)
I'm trying to let it go. I'm trying to find ways to legally defuse the ridiculous amount of money being handed over to someone who never even had a R w/my H -- just the back seat of a car. I'm looking into Dr Phil, Larry King and any other media avenue to bring this type of sitch to light. I'm throwing my anger into finding a way to reform these outrageous and outdated CS laws.
But the sad part underneath all of this anger: if H had kept it in his pants, we wouldn't be dealing w/this. And all of the ranting and raving in the world doesn't change the fact that we are now living in poverty.
We have not tried marriage counselling only due to the fact that I have been seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist and both are costing a lot of money. I think im going to stop the individual therapy ( my therapist just pisses me off because he is always defending the whore), and try marriage counseling. Who knows if it will work though... I just cant see my husband opening up to a complete stranger. I mean... would we both leave the sessions angry with eachother? I guess I dont understand how it actually works.
But yall are right!! If he would have kept it in his pants we wouldnt be in this situation!! But then again if these whores would stay away and not intentionally go after married men just for the "thrill of it" we wouldnt have a problem either. I dont defend my husband in anyway... He was WRONG!! I do however understand WHY he did it. I wish I could be more like yall and not have hatred towards the kid. I know he did nothing wrong...I just cant get over the fact that he is soooooo SPOILED and my 16 year old has to go without a lot of stuff that his friends have!! This money getting sent to the WHORE will just go towards her TRIPS and her WHORING... cause I hear that she is still messing with married, or engaged men. GRRRR..... I swear I saw a pic of her online and she looked pregnant again. Is that an occupation now??? Getting pregnant by married men and taking them for everything they got???
I actually was legally married although split up several years w/xh when I became pregnant w/oc.
I was only with xmm and I made a point that my attorney and xh's attorney went to court to report that I was pregnant but it was not his to avoid xmm wasting more time and forcing xh to take a DNA test.
He still could have forced xh too, but I had already threatened xmm that if he did this to him (someone who was not involved only guilty by legal marriage) I would help my xh sue him for damages. So xmm quickly forgot that idea.
I know alot here don't agree with me and I'm sorry in advance, but I gave my oc my last name and her xmm's last name. She has the right to have it. Maybe not the best circumstances to have it but she has that right as a humuan being.
When she is older and she ever does establish a relationship with her she can keep that and use it but it will be her choice and she can drop it as well.
I am still determined to be cheerful and happy, in whatever situation I may be; for I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
If a single parent lives with her parents and sort of half does ok (not that ok if she lives w/her parents I would guess) it doesn't absolve a father from financially being responsible to his child based on the income he makes.
The reason I say this is my exh argued that with me all the time, and it infuriates me that people have this mentality, that because they are suffering financially, the CS laws are unfair and the children shouldn't be supported!!!
We were married when we had our kids, after the divorce his finances were a mess-and becaues he was so bad off he thought he shouldn't HAVE to pay support, and he milked that for a very long time while he did nothing to improve himself or his financial situation. I had been without support for a few years because I didn't want to make trouble for him by having him arrested so I didn't place it through the state. Guess what? i was stupid, my kids suffered, that was money I could have used for saving, travel, vacation, better clothes, outings, college savings, not default on ccard payments, etc....what the OW and OC do wthe support is NOT unfair or anyone's business. I'm glad there are laws in place, and some will abuse it, yes and that's sad but it also protects women and children.
I bet if you and your husband divorced you'de be singing a different tune about child support.
If he didn't know of his child he could argue in court to not pay BACK CS. I dated a man once who didn't know about his child until the child was 4yrs old...the judge did NOT make him pay back support because he was not aware-and most judges probably won't either so keep that in mind.
The fact that he pays here on out is just and right....even if it allows her to go with her child to a beach vacation.
The OW and OC finances actually shouldn't be your concern, his duty as father of the child, and the one that screwed up on you is to pay support. If you guys are in poverty now and not making enough, that is his responsibility in the first place and I see all of this as displaced anger at an innocent party (the child). Why ISN'T he making enough or doing something to improve your families finances?
IN which case he can then comfortably do his duty to support this innocent OC.
I think your therapist is seeing right through your displaced anger obviously-and some of us on here do also, and if we are allowed to vent I think we can call it as we see it also and perhaps channel the hatred into more constructive financial outlets that can be created for your OWN children.
I mean if my kids are eating spaghetti oh's for a month I get up and get a job or go to school with grants to get a better job. I don't hate on others because they can afford to make a trip, we are responsible for our own families and she is doing what is financially the responsible thing to do for HER child, and I think she is totally entitled to do that and so is the child to receive it! She's defending his future as you should do with yours as well.
[This message edited by fair2all at 1:27 PM, September 4th (Tuesday)]
The statement that all you need to do is go get a job yourself and support your family is ignorant and not necessarily doable. Jobs are not always easy to come by, especially if you have been at home w/children for years. I know this for a fact - I've been looking for months. And I have a degree and a decent resume.
Why in the world should an OW be petted and given all of these excuses b/c she had a child? B/c she is a woman? What am I, chopped liver? Last time I checked, I wasn't given a "get out of personal responsibility" card b/c I had children.
The OW in my case is NOT innocent. SHE chose to be deceptive about OC to see where and how she could make the most money. It is WRONG that she receives over half of H's net income, doesn't have a job, gets a nanny and we are living in poverty. And no, most judges do NOT waive arrearage in CS cases. Matter of fact, many states have it built into the statutes that custodial parent will receive x number of years of it.
Of course this makes the W angry. Angry at the H, angry at the OW. THEY are to blame for a very difficult financial mess that the W has no control over.
It is wrong, imo, to have the CS laws cover infidelity and OC the same way it covers D and CS. The OW never set up house w/the man. They never merged finances. She never counted on his income to eat. BIG difference. COM and the BS are innocent, just like the OC. OWs are not innocent - they CHOSE this. Just b/c the extortion is legal doesn't make it right.
we talked a little last night about us. he says he can't have us be more than good friends right now because he has to keep his head straight and as long as we maintain like we are, he can do that. if we cross that line, it confuses things for him. i asked him why it's a negative for him to be more than friends with me. he said it's not that, it's just distracting. neither of us has other kids and he is trying to prepare by getting a better job (or going back to school) and getting his own place.
i've never had to prepare for the birth of a child and i can't really imagine what it would be like, especially if you are not with the mother and not prepared financially, so i'm having a hard time understanding why he can't deal with us right now. are there any WS fathers out there who could shed some light on this thinking for me?
also, did anyone get the prenatal paternity test?
i am a bit confused...i have been following your story and like the rest of us we BS or BGF get the short end of the stick and we too are innocent in all of this. but i think many of us here may have the same questions and or thoughts about your situation.
1) your BF has gotten attached to children that belongs to OW who he betrayed you with, and he feels somewhat "responsible" for these kids
2) your BF may have an OC of his own with a psycho OW
3) your BF is/was starting to have feelings for a 2nd OW in the picture
4) right now he doesn't know if he can handle being more than friends w/ you because he's got too much on his plate.
I hate to be harsh and I trust that I am not alone here, but HONEY HE DOESN'T DESERVE YOU! Why are you chasing a man who isn't going to commit to you? And frankly he is doing everything and saying everything that indicates that your like 4th on his priority list right now. YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER! He wants to have his cake, his pie, his brownie, and his ice cream all at the same time. And then on top of that he wants your sympathy and your support.
I am missing something here? It sounds like you guys are NOT together, but from your posts it sounds like you really want him to want to choose you...but I don't see anything that indicates that he is choosing you. Ask ANY of the betrayed women who are in R here and they will ALL tell you the same thing. The wayward person needs to be 110% remorseful and willing to commit 110% or else it won't work. Even when the former wayword person is 110% committed it is still hard as hell.
Please save yourself...you deserve so much better than this. As I had read once here in SI..."if I am trying so hard to be with someone so wrong for me...imagine how amazing it will be when I find the right one."
Then there is this completely distorted "formula" to figure out how much the H is paying for the COM. Our COM are actually worth much less (in financial terms) on paper than the OC b/c of this formula. The formula was designed w/the scenario of a D'ing couple who have created a home together, merged finances, etcetera. And, two of our COM have special medical needs. The copays for their medicines are high. H is not allowed to deduct that from what this state calls his "income". Nor is he allowed to deduct what should be his "50%" of the daycare cost we will incur b/c I have to go to work. See the vicious cycle? The OW gets all of the leeway -- the W gets none.
But, and this is a big but, the OW can claim her "need" for daycare expense and that H should be required to pay a % of that. On top of what they have taken out for CS. And there is no guideline or ceiling on the expense of the daycare. H's payment for the daycare portion is more than his CS payment -- the payment that "they" figured out was what he could afford.
I call this the triple screw. Screwed by your H, screwed by the OW and then screwed by the system.
Misto -- thanks for the support. I think you are right. Fair2all - you are quite combative to BS's, methinks I smell an OW - or someone who isn't living this scene. If you haven't walked in our shoes, what do you know about the reality and why would you even begin to think it appropriate to comment in such a judgemental way?
It sucks, but the other OC shouldn't NOT be supported because of this.
I don't know maybe if we put together all our anger for the injustice of it all we could channel it to lobby for CS reform. After all, father groups got it changed "read lowered" to begin with in most states not long ago.
I'm not attacking anyone for posting their pain and feelings, but I don't see why a OC should be punished for a stupid husbands decision.
But it is like I said before, we are the one who has been betrayed and I told my H and the OW I will feel any godda** way I want to. Everybody is going through something here, and it is different for all of us. If people feel it is unfair that their family is living in proverty, it is unfair.
As far as hating the OC, I can understand that it is a constant reminder of the betrayal that has been inflicted on you. I have been betrayed for over half of my marriage and I have 3 OC to look at everyday and remind me of that.
But I decided to turn it around, for me. Everyone has a right to feel how they want to. AM I pissed that I am cleaning up a mess made by my H and OW? Yes,every piece of clothes that they have recieved in the past 4 mos. have been from me, because they deserve to be clean, eat, and be happy no matter who they belong to.
I am the only stable person in their lives right now and that is why I do what I do. Luckily my children are a little older and have jobs of their own, but if my family was stuffering financially while the OW was living on the hog, I'd be pissed too.
If I want to stay married, these OC come with the package, but nobody's family should have to suffer because they tried to keep it together.
Fair2all -- perhaps you do not mean to attack, but your verbage and use of it do. But more importantly, you have not been forthcoming with your story. Again, I say to you, if you are not living this scene you do not know it, nor are you qualified to "judge".
I strongly disagree with your statement that my H is the only one who put me here. Last time I checked it takes two to have sex unless we are talking about masturbation, which is, I think, a different forum.
You can't have it both ways. You want the man to own his sh*t, then so must the woman. And yes, the OW did this too. To me, my COM and the OC -- who as I have pointed out on numerous occasions are innocent as well.
As I stated previously, I have been searching for ways to help support my COM for quite a while. And you, again, have chosen to ignore what was said. Nor have you touched on the points made about the SAHM. Which can only lead me to surmise that you want equal rights for women and CS for women as long as they aren't M? When did my rights as a woman and mother to the COM disappear? You want it both ways? It is okay for the OW to be upset and go after CS; but not okay for the BW to be upset and go after a FAIR amount of dollars for the COM? Or is that only okay if the BW is getting D'd? Otherwise she is supposed to shut up and suck it up?
Not to mention the SAHM, a valid and beautiful life choice - she is not allowed to demand that the courts recognize the H's financial obligation there? Or is that only if she Ds him? Otherwise, shut up and suck it up. This is sure what it looks like you are saying. Which leads me again to my original question for you: what is your story? And now: why are you not disclosing it?
CS needs to be reformed to include the scenario of infidelity and OC. The laws do NOT provide for this type of situation. Instead they throw the W and COM under the bus financially.
The laws "assume" that the W pays for 50% of the COM.
The courts see that a mother and a father created a child, it sees those two as being financially responsibility for said child. If you and H agrees that you will be a SAHM then the courts see that as your contribution along with H paycheck.
The difficulty comes into play when H fails to consider the implications of getting involved with another women and creating another child and how it would affect the agreement the two of you had.
I often hear that the system does not take into consideration the COM when considering child support for OC.....Consider you and H had one child and OW has say...5 from an exhusband who is unemployed and contribute say childcare in-kind for CS. Let's pretend that the law has been changed to include other children the parents have. Now even though OW makes more than your H she has 6 kids to his now 2 kids, with this new version of the CS law OW will get a reduction of income for 5 other kids and your H would only get a reduction for one. DO you think that would be more fair? What if OW had the COM that had special needs? Should your H have to pay her more because the special need of children that he did NOT father? I dont think so either, and the courts dont think so. So why would the court consider the COM that she is not a mother to when determining the care for the child she is a mother to.
I hope this made sense. I know thet this is a super painful situation. I know that emotions are all over the place. Money problem on top of all this can make your local psych ward look like a vacation spot. I dont mean to add to that just to show you a different side of this situation.
I think the way to fix CS issue is to raise our children better. Teach them responsibility and accountability. Teach them respect for self and others and maybe our son will grow to be real men with morals and character, and our daughters will grow into women with self esteem and a moral conscious.
[This message edited by MYOC&ME at 11:19 PM, September 4th (Tuesday)]