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User Topic: Sexual Abuse Survivors/Spouses of SAB's
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Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, October 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey its? I also put a record of one of my healing days in my journal just now. you can read it if you want. don't know if it will help or not but it is there.

We will miss you Unicornsearcher.

Posts: 6152 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: I am a Bluegrass-American
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Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,

I was wondering if you knew of any online support groups for survivors of child sex abuse. I would like to set my wife up with an online support group to start with, and hopefully find an off-line local one here in Bangkok.

My wife returns home on Wednesday, and I will take a few days off work. During that time I want to try one last final time to persuade her to seek help and get into therapy also before we finally split up.

I have come to the point where I see no point in reconciliation, unless she begins therapy to start her healing. First things first she needs to start there. I should forget all about Reconciliation I think.

I imagine it was difficult for many of you that suffered CSA to take those first steps too. Was there anything that made you go for the first time?

Do you recommend tough love, I have tried soft love for many years and so too have her friends from time to time. It never worked.

Feeling overwhelmed with despair right now.

Me BS 42
WW age 39
D-Day 12 September 2009
1 Boy 7 years old

Posts: 31 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Bangkok
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Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's another question,

I read that SAb survivors can get "stuck" on a maturity level.

It seems that from reading my WW journal that she has regressed to being a teenager emotionally. I guess this is common for victims of CSA.

Any comments gratefully received.

Me BS 42
WW age 39
D-Day 12 September 2009
1 Boy 7 years old

Posts: 31 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Bangkok
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Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To top it all, to maintain my dignity, I want to move on with my life get to my new place and go NC with my WS.

But at some point I know that her A will end, she will come back to planet earth, she will realise the extent of the damage that she has done to her life. I am sure that she will be a suicide risk. she will be too proud to go for Reconciliation, I know her she would rather die that admit that she was wrong, literally.

On the one hand I am disgusted at her continued behaviour and I need my dignity back. And on the other I am overwhelmed with compassion for her struggle with CSA, and genuine concern for her health and safety.

I am all over the place.

Me BS 42
WW age 39
D-Day 12 September 2009
1 Boy 7 years old

Posts: 31 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Bangkok
hey him
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Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read that SAb survivors can get "stuck" on a maturity level.

Wow Kieran, that may explains it. The it is my wife's SAb and her recent A. I thought she had dealt with the SAb a decade ago now I am not so sure. Her A is stage 1 passion and infatuation. She shared with me that if we ever get together we need to be "like we were when we first got married". Now I see where that is coming from.

My WW went to therapy when the feelings of her SAb started surfacing. Nobody pushed her to do that. In retrospect though, her therapist is nuts, she also rationalizes my WW's justifications of her A. So it would not surprise me that she has not dealt with the whole issue. That and her last surviving parent (mom) passing away last January just sent her over the edge.

The morals she is exhibiting from sharing the OM with his
XW to her A itself is so against the person that I knew it blows my mind.

'moving on', except for all the crap, I am OK

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: 45th parallel or so, you know ...tropical
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Default  Posted: 11:50 AM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read that SAb survivors can get "stuck" on a maturity level.

Be very careful how you interpret this. People in the beginnings of a relationship - whether that is with someone new after a divorce or an affair "relationship" - will behave in the same way as a teenager in their first love. It's called limerance - the hormones, the rush, all the stuff. It has nothing to do with SAb.

The effects of SAb include wanting to recreate the abuse, acting out, etc. It says nothing of morals.

My past "made" me promiscuous and prone to acting out. But it was my morals (or lack thereof) that gave me permission for an affair.


[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 11:51 AM, October 25th (Sunday)]

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6043 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
hey him
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Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanx UnexpectedSong,

for pointing out that I am talking two separate situations here. I should have left the last paragraph off. It was an afterthought, more on my surprise of her behaviors rather than a response to the topic. Her limerence (thanx for the new word) also may not have anything to do with her SAb, however I had a strong gut level reaction when reading that sentence that made me realize something connected. Now I just need to explore it. ohhhh, it probably is about me and not her. dang

'moving on', except for all the crap, I am OK

Posts: 349 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: 45th parallel or so, you know ...tropical
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Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our/My Story

Her: WW, Survivor of Childhood Sexual Abuse (Very Very Strongly Suspected, no childhood memory at all)
Him: BH (I think all long term relationships with women were with survivors)
When: A happened Late Sept or Early Oct 09. Was working up since May-June 09

We met in college. WW did not know she was a survivor of abuse until memories came back later. Side effect of abuse was dysfunctional sexuality throughout our marriage (and her entire life), Dissociation and Compartmentalization.

Spouse has recently had a transformation where she now feels (more) comfortable with her body (Went from 170-130 lbs at 5'5” working out and getting off medicating stress with starch) & sexuality and it has awakened desires that most of us went through two decades ago. She had felt that the damage to her sexuality that had repressed her so much when younger was terribly unfair and had started to act on this feeling. She had also just recently tapered off of Lexapro, an SSRI anti-depressant. It had been negatively impacting her sex drive and response. We had noticed that since she tapered off (completely off Lexapro just 2-3 weeks before A), that her sexual apatite and response (now capable of multiple O and continuous O again after long time not). It was getting fun.

I may have seen the birth control in her purse up to a month before I realized what it was. I finally realized, by doing some checking, that what I saw really was birth control, Oct 10th. I Had a vasectomy about 5 years ago. I found her iPhone web browser on a page for Plan-B on Oct 15th at 6:00 AM. I had just returned from a the last of 20 or so 12 hour night shifts and was about to go to bed, next to her. I laid down, she snuggled up to me and whispered “missed you” I got back up and went to bathroom, laid back down and started shaking and sat up. I was probably in shock. I felt like I was going to puke. She asked if I was getting sick. I said no, but there was something important we needed to talk about. I told her “My wife of 20 year, My Wife whom I had a vasectomy for, My wife, who I have faithful to since the moment I first set eyes on her (and I truly have) 22 years ago, has birth control in her purse and I think she's having an affair”.

She replied back that she never meant to hurt me and that what she was doing had absolutely nothing to do with me, or our marriage. It had been caused by her extreme anger at the unfairness of life and how her abuse had made her miss out on the casual sex that it seemed everyone around her was taking part in when she was young. She had this burning desire to have one “fling” with a “bad boy” (I see that a lot here). She did mention that I had not been aggressive enough sexually, and that I had not taken the opportunity to take her on our living room couch like a “bad boy” (this is the couch she never cleaned up after our kid barfed on it, and stinks like wet dog because she let the dogs on it. ). She had set aside our marriage vows, and has disassociated what she planned to, and almost did, as having an extramarital affair. I didn't hear any remorse from her in what she had done, only that I was hurt by finding out.

She was traveling to out of town on the 17th of Oct for a professional convention. I felt trapped in confronting her as quickly as I was certain that something may have happened. And the fact that she would be out of town four days straight after such a bombshell was not the best thing. I've been a mess ever since. I suck at the 180 thing and the fact that her childhood abuse is the root cause of this situation have stopped me from crashing down on her as hard as a Man might have. I'm 6'-0” and I've gone from 175lbs to 163lbs since d-day. I don't stress eat any more and I've left many meals unfinished since then.

As we “processed “ through her thinking and how I was responding to my discovery, I came to realize some things: The thought of another man with wife, having sex with my wife, planning to have sex with my wife, sends me into a rage, makes my skin crawl. I am completely possessive of her body, I told her so, and she actually liked hearing that. She is still in denial that what she was doing was truly adultery/cheating/infidelity. I think that due to compartmentalization and disassociation.

She's seen her therapist, one who she had stopped going to about the time she started hatching her “plan”, once. I jumped on the internet, and found some resources, called the local mental health hotline, got out my company's behavioral provider list and got to a councilor twice in the week since d-day (really c-day for confrontation day). I told her, that I can't stand therapists that just sit there and um at what you're saying. I could talk to the dog and get better than that. I told her I need her feedback. I'm borderline Aspergers and if I could figure this shit out by just listening to myself talk, I would have done that years ago. I think she got the point.

WS tells me, and I do believe, that she stopped just short of going "too far" with her attempt to have a taste of the wild life that she missed as a young woman. They were probably naked when she (most likely her since men don't say stop) said stop. Probably had been drinking. I suspect that the emptyness and uglyness of casual sex hit her. She was actually so concerned about getting “too close” that she had been looking at “Plan B”, a morning after pill, on her iPhone web browser. I was out of town, at work that night I think it happened and I think they had been at a party together. I have not pressed for many details of the event, and of the events that led them up to that moment.

The birth control was Encare, a nonoxinal-9 spermicidal foam capsule. She had no condoms to prevent STDs. Encare is of very marginal protection against just a limited set of STDs. She told me that since she said “Stop”, her need to have a fling ended. I didn't ask her, and she didn't offer an explanation as to why she was still carrying the BC. The day after I confronted her I told her that I knew the BC came in boxes of 12 and I wanted the rest from her so I could dispose of them. She said that she had hidden them and might take a while to find them. A while later she gave them to me. All 12 were there. I looked days before and didn't find them. I threw them away. Having all 12 also meant that the night she almost did it, she hadn't thought of using her protection. Even if (big if) he did use a condom, they fail. See our two sons as exhibit one and two of condom failure. Her taking all those risks in one mindless act pisses me off HUGE.

I have gone though her cell phone call and text logs. I know who the person is, I did a reverse lookup of his phone number, paid for the full reverse directory info, and then paid for a criminal background check. That came up clean. He is one of her circle of friends from work. She is a post-doc research scientist and when not locked up all alone in a lab all day, spends time with other 20-something graduate students. She is 42, who could pass for an in-shape 27, and has told me that she really likes the sexual tension and attention that her mostly male group of friends. They play(ed) poker together on Friday nights and I think this was one of the major “enablers” of her affair. Yes, it is an affair.

I understand her “need” for the positive feedback on her attractiveness and sexuality that she gets from this circle. She's live a live devoid or oblivious to her sexuality up until recently. She told me that she's afraid that I'll make her stop seeing her circle of friends and that the isolation and frustration of her job have left being with them as one of the few things that makes her feel alive. I think we need to find her a healthier outlet. At this point, dancing in a strip joint we make me LOTS more comfortable than being with the circle of friends that precipitated this affair.

Your Thoughts?

I've asked her for a Non Contact Agreement. It could get complicated if she has to deal with him at work. I have no sympathy if she needs to eject him from her social circle. That what happened when you try to fuck your friends. Shit gets complicated.

She tells me that this has nothing to do with our marriage and is entirely about her strong feelings of emotional loss and the unfairness of being cheated out of experiencing her sexuality when she was single. Now that the potential affair stopped short, she feels closer to me than ever before, and has no desire to ever leave me. I however, have far less desire to remain in a marriage if she would have followed through. I am that possessive. And I would be FAR MORE HURT.

Our physical relationship has not suffered from this situation. If anything, her concern is that I am not pushing hard enough for her desires. I had learned not to push much sexually due to her sensitivity in the past. I am finding that my habits, and possibly some aging effects, are preventing me from satisfying her new found desires.

I feel lied to (she said she never lied, just omitted) but why would I ever ask her, but I came close to asking. I feel betrayed. Betrayed that she would (very close to almost) going through with her long stewing plan, while we were actually getting closer in our passion. Betrayed that she would offer her body to another man. Betrayed that she would do such a shitty job of protecting herself. Betrayed that she NEVER shared her anger and desire with me in any rational way.

Yea, that's a tough thing to share with your husband. But some woman obviously do from the pics I've seen on the internet. I never could have allowed her to become physical with another man, but that would have been a huge signal to seek help and head a disaster off at the pass.

I am fairly certain that she never did anything like this before in our 20 years of marriage. My confidence that her survivor issues would stop her was my undoing. They were what forced the issue. She says that she never wanted to hurt our marriage and feels that it's been getting stronger over these past few months. (except of course for the past week).

I am looking for insight in understanding and handling this situation. How have others handled changes in the levels of desire in their partners. Is a change in desire a problem seen in other survivors? Do other spouses, who have arrived at their sexuality late (in midlife) have similar problems? How do you find venues where a woman can feel attractive while your marriage is safe?

This looks like a wonderful resource and I await your responses.

-- I'm so sick that it took this to bring us together. I'm glad we're closer than we've ever been.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Kansas
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Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, October 25th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Sounds a lot like where I am at too. Difference with me is that WW is still in A with no intention of stopping. At least your WW is showing some signs of regret if not remorse as such.

I would say do the 180, and go at it hard. It is difficult to do when you are all broken inside. For your own protection and your own sense of self-worth you need to.

I feel for you, it is such a horrible thing when the woman you love does this to you and sees it as if it is nothing.

I have found to my complete surprise how easy it has been for my WW to lie, to continuously lie and minimise the A. She has become total adept at compartmentalising the A and rationalising her reasons. I suspect that you WW is lying to you too. She is probably not telling you the truth about the extent of the A.

Here is an extract from earlier post:
Topic: Candid talk about sex abuse and its role in affairs
I have seen it plenty of times on more than one message abuse and infidelity going hand and hand.
It seems to have a category of its own because often what happens in the here and now is not just influenced by past abuse but HEAVILY influenced by past abuse.
Some common vunerablities of sex abuse victims:
1) Low self esteem/sense of worthlessness. For those who were repeatedly abused they percieve there only value in having sex or being used for sex. They have a hard time seeing themselves beyond this. Often they cannot accept compiments, cannot accept loving relationship is because they don't feel worthy of being loved.
2) Disassociate. Victims learn both in the begginning of being abused then later as a coping mechanism to disassociate themselves from the abuse from their attacker. During the abuse the victim will learn to pick a spot on the ceiling or wall and focus on it until the abuse was over. After the abuse is over they learn to disassociate the every day person from the person abused. It allows them to seperate the pain of abuse from the everyday life.
3) Minimizing. Abuse victims learn to minimize the abuse. After all if they convince themselves its not abuse then they are not victims...who wants to be a victim. Or if they convince themselves the abuse wasn't all that bad then don't feel the urgency to face it to deal with it.
4) Compartmentalize. Abuse victims learn to comparmentalize things. If they store painful memories in the far reaches of their mind then don't have to live with it constantly. The memories are still there unlike suppressing or repressing memories.
5) Secrecy. Abuse victims learn real early you don't tell. Often a skilled (word used loosely) predator can tell which children will or won't tell. And of course they go after the child they think won't tell. In closer relationships where the abuser is a someone known to the victim they rely on pressure and manipulating the victim into silence. They may say things like be quiet you don't want to people to know you did this or that. They may imply some type of harm will come to the victim and in some cases outright threaten the victim should they tell.
6) Self blaming. This comes in many forms. The abuser themselves while try and convince their victim they "wanted it" or they "enjoyed it". The victim might have a physical reaction to the abuse. They will say well if I felt something if I responded then I must have wanted it in someway. Finally society will project blame....good girls don't do that. For boys straight boys don't do that and so on.
7) Lack of empathy. Not surprising that if you learn to ignore your own abuse then you won't be very aware of other persons pains.
8) Distorted sexuality. Sex becomes something that is based on control not on love and pleasure. The victim sees sex a way to get "secondary gains". If I submit to this then I will be liked, loved or even just left alone. They see sex as unpleasant, as hurtful as being less of significane. In short they take those skills of minimizing, disassociation and apply it to their sexuality. Sex is less about pleasure and more about who is the boss.
Those are just some of the many ways sex abuse impacts its victim.
How does that relate to adultery?
Well first and foremost we know many WSs had low self esteem. They felt unloved, they felt worthless.
We also know that WSs compartmentalize, minimize, disassociate themselves from the fantasy of their affair and their every day life.
And of course all affairs involve a high level of secrecy.
But here is the big key for those WSs that were sexually abused as a child or young teen........these feelings (distorted sexuality and sense of worthlessness), these learned behaviors (compartmentalizing, disassociating and minimizing) were FORCED on them.
The SA victim HAD to learn these behaviors in order to cope with something forced on them against their will. And often forced on them when they were for the most defenseless to deal with the abuser.
I would urge any BS who's spouse was sexually abused to read The Sexual Healing Journey. It covers a ton of stuff on how SA impacts its victims. It also speaks to the partners or loved one of SA victims.
My old computer crased but I hope to get the bookmarks off the old drive. There are ton of posts on Marriage Builders by abuse victims. They talk very candidly about how the abuse controled them for years even though they thought they had a handle on it.
So both WS and BS dealing with SA please keep in mind what happened in the recent past was strongly influenced by your WS's past as a child or young teen. And it was a past that saw things forced on them against their will.

It is hard not to be compassionate for our WW if thay have been victims of SA but we now become victims too of SA as a secondary victim. All the more reason to go hard and do the 180, I think. At least that is my conclusion. I am about to step up gear and I hope that this challenges the compartmentalisation, minimisation and dissociation of the issue.

All the issues are very complex, it takes amzing men like us to sustain and endure in such trying times when sometimes all we want to do is crumble and crash. My head has been spinning for days still almost 8 weeks from first finding out.

I have found the only way to get through this time has been to great support of friends and staying connected with other people, this support board, and a ever deepening faith in god and my love for my son.

I have said a prayer for you and I hope that you get through this. Still in touch, PM me and let me know how it goes.

Me BS 42
WW age 39
D-Day 12 September 2009
1 Boy 7 years old

Posts: 31 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Bangkok
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Default  Posted: 12:11 AM, October 26th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So sick of this shit. Can't tell if I'm depressed b/c of grief, infidelity, or SAB-related crap. I keep seeing my sister as a victim, then as a predator. I just want to make a difference to people so they don't have to go through all the crap we did, but can't seem to pull myself together enough to make it by in life. I don't know if my sisters ever saw the full extent of how SAB affected them. The surviving sister told me she had her peace with it, but I know she's still so messed up. I think I've healed very well, but know that there are many things in my life that will always be different b/c of some bastard.

Sorry, just ranting.

Me BS - 32
FWH - 34 - 1.5yr PA (with my sister, RIP)
Together 13y Married 10y
3 children: 10 & 9 & 1 1/2
D-Day 9/08

Posts: 223 | Registered: Nov 2008
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Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, November 1st (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

D-day Oct 15th

I wanted to thank all who replied to my original post for your kind words, thoughts, prayers, and advice. There is a lot to think about and process. Since D-Day we have talked (not fought) and have had many good conversations, and some bad. In all honesty, most are focused on how I'm working through my emotional response to my discovery. Some are starting to cover what was driving her on her mission.

In these conversations, she has told me, and I have strong reasons to believe, that she not only didn't have sex, but did not even get naked with the OP. Mr. Dysfunctional bad boy didn't believe in using any protection and she couldn't do that. Yes I did forcefully inquire if I needed to go get checked for STDs. Things stopped there and went no further. In the encounter, she realized that casual sex was something that was more hollow and emotionless than she had ever imagined. Since my discovery, I have done lots of research, and have found that the midlife crisis is really common in women in her age range and situation.

She has been very dissatisfied with her job over the past 6-7 months and after 10 years of graduate school and 4 years since graduation, the Ph.D. Had not brought her the satisfaction she had wanted in life. It had been a series if frustrating experiences that have done little to build her self worth, self esteem and self confidence. Spending time with the group of people from her lab in a social situation is one of the few situations where she feels confident and strong. These come from the positive feedback she gets from this group of 20 something young men.

I've downloaded all the cell-phone logs over the past 6 months and can see that her communication with Bad Boy collapsed to nothing even BEFORE I confronted her. Her fear of sexuality is deeply seated and not so easily overcome. The planning, imagining, and the purchase of birth control, was at the very extreme of her capabilities and the shock of the riskiness and ugliness of casual sex does seem to have brought her back to ground. I think that if I had confronted her before her “almost” event, she would not have benefited from the lesson that she did learn. I am not comfortable with that thought, but it is probably true.

She had arrived at her mental state due to the combination of three factors. 1). Intense anger at having been the “good girl” all her life and how it had gotten her nowhere. This anger was a driving force behind why she wanted to do something to show (to herself) that she could have this “experience”. She was even mad at me for telling her that I didn't think she was capable of an affair, due to her inability to have casual sex. Probably a bad thing to say in hindsight, but the conversation at the time was about her concerns that I had an affair. I never did. The anger wasn't at our marriage, me or our relationship. It was at her situation in the world that had insisted she be a good girl and denied her the experience of experimental sex as a young woman. 2). She thought that she had finally overcome her self image and sexuality issues since she had gotten in shape and was dressing “hot”. In the past, more than 10 months ago, she would have felt VERY uncomfortable if men had shown an interest in her sexually. By now, it was something that made her feel good. (this is a control and confidence issue). 3). She wanted to be desired by a man. It's not that I don't desire her. It's just that after 20 years of living with an abuse survivor, you learn to tamp down you expression of sexual desire and want. You get tired of your wife puking when you touch her. A 20 something man fit that bill.

She says that now she learned the lesson of the hollowness of the casual sex experience, that desire within her have been extinguished. She was not trying to get something better than her marriage, just have an experience that she had been denied.

She has only begun to work on how she got to the place she was. There are some huge disassociation, compartmentalization and all of the bad choices that went along with it. Some time over the last 6-7 months, we had a huge disconnect with what was going on in her life and what she was communicating to me. We were re-connecting in the weeks that led up to her Zenith event, but even that improved communication still did nothing to head off the “almost” incident. This is a fact that causes me some concern.

Several replies have mentioned the potential that she has done more than she is telling me and that there are still more ugly truths to discover. I suppose that the fact that she did more than I ever suspected should stand as testimony that she is capable of behaving beyond what I believed her previous bounds were. What she told me she did, (did, not thought of) was barely beyond what she'd ever been capable of before. She told me that she caught herself dissociating during the event and that it carried no emotional content for her at the time. The event was entirely precipitated by her actions, and he had not perused her. He was definitely the type to never turn down casual sex with an attractive woman and didn't do anything to stop things.

Now that I've recovered from the initial shock of discovery & confirmation, I'm personally more interested in my own self discovery and maintenance than just emotional first aid. I'm pretty sure I'm past that point. If we're going to do the trickle truth thing, then all bets may be off. I've made it very clear that if she had (or ever does) go farther then she did I would react far more strongly than I did. I take our vows very seriously. In this day and age, fooling around can get you a life time of medical problems that wreck people's lives. I am still furious at how casual she was about the risks she was planning on taking.

One of the most difficult things in this relationship is the fact that it has taken a battalion of highly trained and experienced therapists to get my wife to where she is. Which, as we've been finding out, is a long way from normal.

From here on, all the heavy lifting is going to have to be done between her ears, and that is really territory where I'm without much influence. I've decided that, with her personality, there are some demands and actions on my part that would mostly tend to drive her deeper into dissociation, compartmentalization and hiding behind the abuse survivor excuse.

I have also been a victim of her abuse because it destroyed the healthy sexuality our marriage could have had. Her actions have made me a victim again. Her actions could have made her a victim again if she would have allowed them to cause more pain in our life. Right now, considering where she was headed, this situation turned out to be one of the least destructive outcomes possible. I might change my mind on this later, but that's where I am now. I some ways, the woman I married is still there. She got to this point because of her emotional damage more than anything to do with our relationship. She stopped because something in her core values stopped her. I am not comfortable that the fact that she was in a committed relationship never came into the equation.

We are a long ways from being out of the woods now. But I think we're at least at a safe place where I think she won't cause any more damage. Now to start rebuilding the trust we once had.

When we were talking a few days ago, she was talking about the anger of always being “good”. There are many colliding forces within her that result in this anger. I raised the possibility that she can be “bad” while remaining within the safety of a monogamous marriage. I don't think she's let her imagination go to places like that but I was wondering how to help her get there.

Similar situation with her work and career situation. She will need to discover how to stop being miss goody two shoes and stand up for herself. Some of these anger issues I identify with: I had to come to a place where I have to use my judgement and decide for myself when rules are standing in the way what is important for me and my family and when the they have to be bent or broken to succeed in life. There are just too many rules in life for someone to follow them all and thrive in life. She's obviously choking in them.

As I worked through how to get through life, I saw that putting your own values to the acid test was important. Family is more important than anything else to me. When I see rules standing in the way of my children's safety, success and welfare, that rule loses a lot of the importance it may have had to me. I've seen my wife make some strides in this area when dealing with the schools about our kids soecial needs. This is an area where she's had some of her best growth. She's learned to push for what she wants and has been successful and feels good about her results.

Some of what she's going through looks like classic signs of mid-life crisis. I'm out of my league in this and will need all the advice I can get. I understand that this is a time when women go though a self discovery and there is little husbands can do, other than looking out for themselves.

Here's an interesting issue. She has come to resent how much information, advice and experience I've received from groups like this. I did take the concept of the NC agreement and press her for it. She is reluctant due to her work situation, and her previous friendship with the OP, but at this point I have insisted since my needs trump his, or hers, at the moment. It obvious that her relationship with this person got way too close and became inappropriate for a woman in a marriage. Some, recommended the 180 but I have decided against that until we can work through the disassociation and compartmentalization. Also since forward motion on the affair halted before discovery and confrontation, I don't need to force her to stop doing anything, except for breaking off contact with the OP.

Although she crossed some very problematic lines for me, she did not truly have an emotional or physical affair, by the strict definition of those terms. Keeping in mind that her actions were not a ONS, but a deliberately planned act. The fact that she fully intended to cross the physical lines causes me great concern and I fear will become an issue of great contention between us. Her disassociation and compartmentalization have effectively prevented her from feeling remorse for what she did.

The things that haunt me at night is the fact that she had been developing her plan for 6-7 months before discovery, with, in hindsight, few real outward indications of trouble. I doubt that I could have done anything to head her off if I had become proactive at the first signs of trouble. That leads me to believe that in the future, I could not successfully perceive and react to a situation like this in the future. Since I first confronted her, she has adamantly held that she not longer wants to have sex with another man and her experience has caused a profound change within her.

One concept I have come up with, to help with transparency and openness on all sides is the “Get Out of Jail Free Forever” card. I even printed some up. Here's the thought: as my wife was going through this episode, she could not tell me what she was doing because she was too far off the reservation. If a method of coming clean would have existed, then we could have talked about it. Yeah, it would have been an awkward conversation: her “I want to have sex with a younger man”, me: “Well, that's interesting, maybe we should talk about that”. Maybe I could have gotten her back into therapy before she had gone so far . We've used them a couple of times since d-day. The rule for the card is this: The person wanting to tell something presents the card and the listener accepts it. People quit talking when they don't feel safe doing so.

Your ideas?

-- I'm so sick that it took this to bring us together. I'm glad we're closer than we've ever been.

Posts: 6 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Kansas
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Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, November 5th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need some advice/input from SAb survivors on this whole mess. My WS is finally getting IC for CSA and physical abuse that started when he was two. This is a huge step for him and four sessions in, he seems committed to facing his issues. I know maybe I need some 2x4's. He is still living with OW but it is me he turns to for emotional support. He is trying to establish a relationship with the babies and is once again treating me with respect (except for that OW thing). He did the things he did and ran because he is afraid that he might hurt them. I'm not saying he ever thought about hurting them but from what I have read this is a common fear of victims of CSA.

I guess my struggle is with what should I be doing. I may be minimizing what he did to us, but I feel like what he is facing is more pressing than A. Any CSA is horrific but how he even survived what he went through amazes me. Maybe the 180 would be good for me, but I feel like it would just be an example of yet another person abandoning him.

No his past does not excuse what he did. He has owned up to what he has done to me. He answers any question I have. I have gotten a genuine apology. No trickle truth. Even the blame shifting seems to have ended. Yes he is sitting on the fence while he is trying to deal with his issues.

Of course I am going to do what I feel is right but I would like the perspective of others who have gone through this.

BS with beautiful b/g twins

Status - happily divorced.

Posts: 156 | Registered: Jul 2009
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Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, November 6th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've lurked on this thread a while, but never posted since it seemed largely inactive.

ky_19..I'm sorry for what you're going through. My situation is slightly similiar--my husband is the CSAS (last s is for survivor)

I don't know if I can post this--for wives of CSAS I've found hope the mods don't mind my sharing that. Since this is a seperate issue-I thought it would be acceptable.

I've never posted myself (there) but I have lurked and it has been helpful.

Are you in IC, too? Hope you are, this is best for professionals and you have been affected by it, too.Even if you two have divorced--especially since you are still in contact.

Anyone know of any other sites or groups?

For my husband--his therapist wants him to attend only CSA survivor groups besides individual therapy.

I had though SA meetings would help too-but his doctors warned that often offenders must attend SA as part of their probation and for my husband to just know he was around an offender could be extremely damaging.

For the husbands of wives who have been abused...I'll try my best to share anything I come across. I was suprised by how little I found on the interent.

Good luck.

D-day 7/2/09
Me-BW 32
WH 32 - For over 2 years or more--8 or so PAs,(makes no difference anymore) 1 EA.
WH was long term SAB by clergy member(in major therapy) had no clue until D-day.
Attempting R.

Posts: 114 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: north east
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Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am SAS BS. I was raped at 14yo and then date raped again in college. I had serious trust issues with my new H, but we worked through it for years. I was treated for PTSD and was able to get to a more normal place sexually within my marriage. HOwever, anytime there were stressors, it affected my sexuality first. I was more prone to shut down in that area than others, safety will always be at least a small issue for me. Now he has cheated. I feel assaulted all over again. I just don't want sex to be the cause of everything painful for me in my life. I just wish I could live a life without ever thinking of sex again. I hate it, it has hurt me so badly. I wanted to have a normal sex life, I got there, I really did, but .. .alas I am a BS.


BS 39
WS 36, Wanting_2_B_btr
Beautiful son-6yo
One on the way
Married 10 years
D-Day 7.17.09
In R, fighting daily

Own your own shit. . . just bc it stinks and its on my shoe too, doesn't make it mine.

Posts: 277 | Registered: Aug 2009
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey its, how are you doing these days?

Hi to everyone else too... i kinda dropped off this thread for a while, but things have picked back up.

I've had some new details come back to me with regard to early memories. It's rough. I'm not sure what to do with them. And every time I remember something new, I just want to go curl up and cry for a day.

I realized that my sexual fetishes are all related to actions that were done to me as a child. It's like I took what was wrong and turned it into something that I liked in order to make it ok. It's so screwed up. I had just gotten to the point where I was embracing them as part of my sexuality, but now that I realize where they come from... I don't know that I want to.

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I understand, I really do. The last dday hit me pretty hard in terms of abuse from long ago resurfacing. Flashbacks, intrusive thoughts, etc., and for a period of time I had a really difficult time physically/sexually with my WSO; sometimes I couldn't even let him touch me. I was worried that all the struggles I've had in order to have a normal sex life were wiped out by my WSO's actions and admissions.

However, this turned out to be a temporary phase. One positive thing about that phase was that I finally got myself into IC for the first time in my life.

It's great that you got the treatment you needed back in the day. Would you consider working with an IC for a while just so you can be sure you're getting the support that you need? Your dday is so recent; it seems perfectly normal (albeit unpleasant) that an issue like this could flare up right now.

Sending warm thoughts your way.

"tous dans le jeu, yo. tous dans le jeu."

Posts: 578 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Member # 21268
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, November 17th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

island_girl, I'm making it. Barely.

I also kind of dropped out of this thread, and the site for the most part, for bit.

I'm not really doing very well, but I am making it. I admitted out loud for the first time, to my IC, that, for the first time ever, I have been having suicidal thoughts. Of course, we talked about it and he made me promise I wouldn't hurt myself--and I haven't--and if the thoughts got worse I would go to the hospital. He also said I should go back to my dr. to reevaluate my meds, and I did. I have been switched from celexa to cymbalta, but it is still too early to tell if it is going to work, since I have only been on it four days. if it doesn't, my dr. is going to go ahead and send me to a psychiatrist. He also, of course, extracted my promise not to hurt myself. My dr. is comfortable prescribing certain meds to a point, but if they don't work and/or if the depression is too severe, he wants psych to handle it. and I am glad of that. I have struggled with the idea of going to a psychiatrist, but if my dr says I need to, I will. I go back to see him next week.

I also have IC again this afternoon, which is a good thing. IC is not giving me a choice right now on how often I come see him, as he had been, and I am glad of that. Right now I need help making decisions, and he is making that one for me.

Last week IC suggested that this was something I needed to tell mr. its, and I agreed. However, I was so scared of telling him, I ended up going and staying in a hotel overnight (which was actually a very good thing, to get away for a while) and the next day I still couldn't bring myself to tell him, so I texted him from the other room! He doesn't truly understand depression, but he does try, and he asked me to make the same promise to him.

My niece is also struggling right now. She is dealing with SAB, bipolar, and other issues. She had been doing well, but she's having a setback, too. It's actually kind of therapeutic for me, though, talking her through it, because what I am saying to her is what I need said to me, too! She is a cutter, and is really struggling right now not to give in to the urge to cut. She voluntarily gave me her knife collection and razors today to keep for her so she won't use them. I know if she really wants to, she will find a way, but this at least makes it a little harder, and tells me she really wants to defeat the urge.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but thanks for listening!

no, I can't take one more step towards you...cuz all that's waiting is regret...

there's just too much that time cannot erase

dday 9/11/08

And the more I know, the less I understand

Because of you...I am afraid...

Posts: 14786 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, November 17th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

its, I am so so sorry. I'm glad that you told mr. its though. It sounds like it was excruciating... but so necessary. And your doctor appears to be doing what he can too - hopefully the med switch will make a difference for you.

How was IC today? Are you doing ok?

I'm so glad that helping your niece is helping you! My sister and I were both abused by the same person and we have been talking through it lately. It's so nice to have someone in my family I can talk to about it all.

if you ever want to talk, PM me ok? And please take care of yourself.

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, November 20th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks, island_girl

I am feeling better. IC was very good, and I think the new meds are kicking in. Yesterday was the first day in a long time I woke up not feeling bad.

no, I can't take one more step towards you...cuz all that's waiting is regret...

there's just too much that time cannot erase

dday 9/11/08

And the more I know, the less I understand

Because of you...I am afraid...

Posts: 14786 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm glad to hear that, its.

I decided to take a break on all this for a short while. I am having a hard time dealing with it all right now. I can't rehash old memories and get through a divorce and have my job fall apart all at once. It's too much.

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
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